Perk : “I want to be with the Celtics, but I got to think about my future.”

[Fafnir]

What good is a secure center spot on a team that's too good to get a high draft pick, not good enough to win a title, and lacks cap space?

Why would any free agent want to come to a team that has NOTHING except Rondo, an aging Pierce and scraps?

Mike

A team coming off being title contenders for the last five years, with a max deal offer, a top flight NBA point guard, and a HoF veteran wing man.

The situation sounds better already. Does Perkins make the C's a more attractive option? Not really, what his contract could do is keep the C's from even being an option.

Can the C's with Rondo, Perkins, and an aging Pierce contend going forward?

I don't see the logic in this. How does keeping Perkins mean that you can't go for a FA? Having contended for the last 5 years doesn't mean anything to a FA that looks at the roster and sees Rondo plus a bunch of scrubs and an old Pierce. Yea, Pierce is a future HOF player, but would a top FA have wanted to sign on a team with an old Karl Malone or an old Charles Barkley for example?

Perkins, Rondo, and Pierce being on the cap with a moderate contract for a big man will mean the Celtics won't be able to get a max level FA. They'll have to pay Avery Bradley and another first round pick, there combined salaries will total too much for a big time FA move.

We could still pursue a FA, but in the 8-10 million dollar range. Not the sort of talent that can contend with Rondo.

[Fafnir]

We not only have Perk's $$$$ to consider but Baby is up as well. I would consider swapping Perk and Baby for Green (a young gifted foreward who wasn't offered a contract by OK) and Aldridge has Perkins size, and has better offensive skills who would have time with Shaq and JO to mature, and save money when the contracts are up this summer.

Jeff Green's contract demands will also be pretty significant, and I don't think his game justifies it.

[More Banners]

Some thoughts:

Of the players on the list of centers making 8-14 million/season, pretty much every team that has/had those players tried to trade them.  That's a pretty good indicator that overpaying for size is not a good plan.  How many of those teams are even close to being contenders?  Right...

So we have both Perk and BBD expiring this year, KG next...decision time is coming quickly.

Everything about BBD this season suggests "showcase for trade" to me. 

I love Perk!

Contracts can be front-loaded, decend in value, have performance bonuses (like Ray's $1 million title bonus) and have 5th and 6th years partially guaranteed.


If he's 100%, I'd offer a performance-bonus laden, front-loaded, 6-year deal with years 5 and 6 partially guaranteed...so that Perk earns a guaranteed base near the MLE, with potential to earn the $10 million he would be worth if he proved to be a key cog on a contender post-KG.

[bdm860]

Some thoughts:

Of the players on the list of centers making 8-14 million/season, pretty much every team that has/had those players tried to trade them.  That's a pretty good indicator that overpaying for size is not a good plan.  How many of those teams are even close to being contenders?  Right...

So we have both Perk and BBD expiring this year, KG next...decision time is coming quickly.

Everything about BBD this season suggests "showcase for trade" to me. 

I love Perk!

Contracts can be front-loaded, decend in value, have performance bonuses (like Ray's $1 million title bonus) and have 5th and 6th years partially guaranteed.


If he's 100%, I'd offer a performance-bonus laden, front-loaded, 6-year deal with years 5 and 6 partially guaranteed...so that Perk earns a guaranteed base near the MLE, with potential to earn the $10 million he would be worth if he proved to be a key cog on a contender post-KG.

You know, I was about to point this out, but I was going to draw the complete opposite conclusion.

Emeka Okafor – traded 1x
Tyson Chandler – traded 4x’s
Al Jefferson – traded 2x’s
Samuel Dalembert – traded 1x

But to me, this doesn't mean it would be a mistake to sign Perk to a fair market value contract.  Chris and Faf are pointing out signing Perk would limit our rebuilding options because too much of our cap room would be occupied in a non vital piece (which are very good points).  But I think you could sign Perk at the going rate to help ride this team as long as you can.  When it's time to rebuild, he'd be one of the easier pieces to move to help our rebuilding process.  People don't only want Centers in free agency.  So unlike other players with big contracts, Perk wouldn't be unmovable (unless he turns into Eddy Curry). Hey maybe trading Perk in a few years if the team is rebuilding would actually help the rebuilding process by netting us a couple of nice pieces.

[bdm860]

Some thoughts:

Of the players on the list of centers making 8-14 million/season, pretty much every team that has/had those players tried to trade them.  That's a pretty good indicator that overpaying for size is not a good plan.  How many of those teams are even close to being contenders?  Right...

So we have both Perk and BBD expiring this year, KG next...decision time is coming quickly.

Everything about BBD this season suggests "showcase for trade" to me. 

I love Perk!

Contracts can be front-loaded, decend in value, have performance bonuses (like Ray's $1 million title bonus) and have 5th and 6th years partially guaranteed.


If he's 100%, I'd offer a performance-bonus laden, front-loaded, 6-year deal with years 5 and 6 partially guaranteed...so that Perk earns a guaranteed base near the MLE, with potential to earn the $10 million he would be worth if he proved to be a key cog on a contender post-KG.

You know, I was about to point this out, but I was going to draw the complete opposite conclusion.

Emeka Okafor – traded 1x
Tyson Chandler – traded 4x’s
Al Jefferson – traded 2x’s
Samuel Dalembert – traded 1x

But to me, this doesn't mean it would be a mistake to sign Perk to a fair market value contract.  Chris and Faf are pointing out signing Perk would limit our rebuilding options because too much of our cap room would be occupied in a non vital piece (which are very good points).  But I think you could sign Perk at the going rate to help ride this team as long as you can.  When it's time to rebuild, he'd be one of the easier pieces to move to help our rebuilding process.  People don't only want Centers in free agency.  So unlike other players with big contracts, Perk wouldn't be unmovable (unless he turns into Eddy Curry). Hey maybe trading Perk in a few years if the team is rebuilding would actually help the rebuilding process by netting us a couple of nice pieces.

Also, to add to the list of Centers above, you can also consider that Shaq - since being traded to the Heat (and falling from superstar status) was traded 2x's.

Since being traded to Indiana and falling from superstar status Jermaine O'Neal was also traded 2x's. 

Brad Miller, traded 3x's in his career.

Ben Wallace was traded one year after signing his big contract with Chicago.

Raef LaFrentz traded 2x's when he was relevant, 3x's total.

Theo Ratliff traded 2x's when he was relevant, 4x's total when he was on a big contract.

Also, I feel like other guys from the original list that haven't been traded yet like Bynum, Bogut, and Kaman would get their teams many good offers if they decided to move them.

Of all the players on big contracts, I feel like Centers are by far the easiest to move. So you don't have to view signing Perk to what the market is offering as necessarily limiting our long term flexibility.

[cdif911]

trade him at the deadline, if we think he's going to walk, get some value

[guava_wrench]

I am all for bringing Perk back at a reasonable price if the Celtics have a way of adding two stars to replace KG, Pierce and Ray in the future. 

How about Durant and Kevin Love


Rondo, Delonte, Durant, Love, Perkins
Miller,  Ray(he will be forever), K. Martin ,BBD, Hibbert ( his price will drop after 2 horrible seasons)



a binki dinki dop

Last night I kept thinking "if there ever were a player destined to be a Celtic, it's Kevin Love".

I would love him to play for us but I have no idea where he will eventually end up (he's definitely going to be out of Minny).  

I will say that LeBron seems to be very interested in him.  J.A. Adande pointed this out recently that LeBron has brought Kevin Love up specifically, complimenting his play a couple times on Twitter and talking about him being stuck on a bad team in Minny, and what other player does he really mention by name that isn't a teammate? Maybe a superstar but even then not really.  

I bet he makes a big push to get him in Miami.

This would be scary, but How (I'm not ridiculing you, I'm interested to discuss this). I wonder how aware players are of salary cap rules. Barring major structural changes, Miami is going to have only the MLE to work with. Meanwhile, I think Love (20-15 this year, marked improvement each year, 22 years old, only 3rd pro year, shooting over .400 for 3's on 3 attempts per game...) is absolutely going to command close to a max deal. So he's not going to sign in Miami as a free agent for the MLE; it'll need to be a sign and trade. So the question is, who is Lebron going to stab in the back? You know he'll have to ok a major break up of the Heatles. Will he boot Bosh out of town on a sign and trade? Would Love use his leverage to demand such a deal? By the time Love is up for sign and trades, Wade will be slightly older...Would the T-wolves even want high-mileage, over 30 Wade at that point? Would Wade show up in Minny? would Lebron stab Wade in the back?  Interesting stuff; I don't see another max/near max player joining that squad unless they deal Wade or Bosh, and I'm not sure a lot of teams want either at the point they'd be dealt (Wade is not good for a rebuilding team; Bosh is demonstrating how overhyped he's been for max dollars).

Now, If I were Miami, I'd seriously consider offering Perk the full MLE next year. You'd weaken a major rival and get your bruiser/dirty work/size guy to let the others do their thing.

Lebron might be forgetting that he and his 2 buddies all got max contracts for a few years and truckloads of endorsement money before taking a reduced contract to play together.

Love's priority should be the best possible contract after his rookie deal. Who his teammates are can matter after that.

[snively]

I'm not sure we should give Perk the boot for the 2012 free agent class, but there are a few enticing options.

We'll be looking for star quality at the 2,4 or 5 positions.

Howard of course would be fantastic if we had any shot at him.  A 10% chance at him is worth saying goodbye to Perk.

Eric Gordon is restricted, but might be poachable from Sterling. 

After that, there's no one in 2012 worth letting Perk go to offer bigger money to.  2013 might be a different story.

[mgent]

I'm not sure we should give Perk the boot for the 2012 free agent class, but there are a few enticing options.

We'll be looking for star quality at the 2,4 or 5 positions.

Howard of course would be fantastic if we had any shot at him.  A 10% chance at him is worth saying goodbye to Perk.

Eric Gordon is restricted, but might be poachable from Sterling. 

After that, there's no one in 2012 worth letting Perk go to offer bigger money to.  2013 might be a different story.

We'd have enough money to give a good deal to Kevin Love and offer the max to Howard, he might take that.  Him and Rondo+Pierce+Love would be closer to a championship than what he's got right now.  That would be a nice big 3 for the future (they'd all probably be the best rebounders at their positions)

[anthony83]

I think Perkins is not an indispensable player,I wouldn´t offer him much money, there are more players in the market that can offer more than Perkins.
 I don´t know what will happen next year with the O'Neals, with KG?,lookcout? but for me Perk is a great defensive player but has little offensive talent. JO has more offensive talent and is a tough player to defend.
When he returns in February, Jermaine O'Neal should be ahead in the rotation.
KG, Shaq, JO, Big Baby, all these players will be ahead in the rotation.
We will have to see what happens with injuries to reach all playoff healthy.

[guava_wrench]

I'm not sure we should give Perk the boot for the 2012 free agent class, but there are a few enticing options.

We'll be looking for star quality at the 2,4 or 5 positions.

Howard of course would be fantastic if we had any shot at him.  A 10% chance at him is worth saying goodbye to Perk.

Eric Gordon is restricted, but might be poachable from Sterling. 

After that, there's no one in 2012 worth letting Perk go to offer bigger money to.  2013 might be a different story.

We'd have enough money to give a good deal to Kevin Love and offer the max to Howard, he might take that.  Him and Rondo+Pierce+Love would be closer to a championship than what he's got right now.  That would be a nice big 3 for the future (they'd all probably be the best rebounders at their positions)

Pairing Love and Howard might hurt their rebound numbers, but that would be a crazy combo. Especially since Love shoots 40% from 3, so they still have flexibility on offense if a team has those 2.

[DavorCroatiaFan]

I love Perk, but i think that he will demand (and somewhere get) to much money for Ainge's plan...
I was thinking how we can get something for him insted watching him go...
MEMPHIS GETS: Perk, Nate, Gody and a pick
BOSTON GETS: Mayo, Arthur, Thabeet
Why for Memphis: get a young defensive minded center to pair with Randolph, spark from the bench in Nate and pick...and they wont pay for Mayo (and this fight for TA) and get rid of former 2nd pick Thabeet.
Why for Boston: Mayo would look great alongside Rondo, has decent size (as opposite of Nate) and is still 23 years old. under Ray Allen's wing could become all-star. Arthur is very solid 22 years old PF who will also benefit from playing with Rondo and Thabeet is enigma. He could be a total bust and he's owned 9 milions for these and next season. But he's a 7-3, still young (23) and with our coaching stuff, our veterans could evolve into a great defensive presence...
PG: Rondo/West/Bradley
SG: Allen/Mayo/West/Wafer
SF: Pierce/Daniels/Mayo
PF: Garnett/Davis/Arthur
C:  O'Neal/O'Neal/Thabeet/Erden
I know extending Mayo would minimize our chances of signing max FA in 2012, but i doubt that post-big 3 Celtics would be a great FA destination, not in a Florida, California or NY level...so i would rather pay for Mayo, resign Davis and West, take a gamble on Thabeet and believe in Ainge's magic then be like Nets...lose Perk, BBD for nothing, have a ton of cap space and then like Nets overpay for likes of Outlaw, Morrow and Farmar.
In 2012/13 our roster could be:
PG: Rondo/Bradley/West
SG: Mayo/Allen (resign on a cheap deal to retire a Celtic)/West
That would be a still young (except Ray) backcourt with a lot of talent and experience
SF: Pierce/MLE guy TBD/first round pick
PF: Garnett (on a deal like Ray's)/Davis/Arthur
c:  Thabeet/FA/Davis/Erden

[MBunge]

What good is a secure center spot on a team that's too good to get a high draft pick, not good enough to win a title, and lacks cap space?

Why would any free agent want to come to a team that has NOTHING except Rondo, an aging Pierce and scraps?

Mike

A team coming off being title contenders for the last five years, with a max deal offer, a top flight NBA point guard, and a HoF veteran wing man.

The situation sounds better already. Does Perkins make the C's a more attractive option? Not really, what his contract could do is keep the C's from even being an option.

Can the C's with Rondo, Perkins, and an aging Pierce contend going forward?

I don't see the logic in this. How does keeping Perkins mean that you can't go for a FA? Having contended for the last 5 years doesn't mean anything to a FA that looks at the roster and sees Rondo plus a bunch of scrubs and an old Pierce. Yea, Pierce is a future HOF player, but would a top FA have wanted to sign on a team with an old Karl Malone or an old Charles Barkley for example?

Perkins, Rondo, and Pierce being on the cap with a moderate contract for a big man will mean the Celtics won't be able to get a max level FA. They'll have to pay Avery Bradley and another first round pick, there combined salaries will total too much for a big time FA move.

We could still pursue a FA, but in the 8-10 million dollar range. Not the sort of talent that can contend with Rondo.

There's still a basic question you're not answering.  Why would any big time FA want to come to a Boston team that's just Rondo, an aging Pierce and scraps?

Mike

[Chris]

What good is a secure center spot on a team that's too good to get a high draft pick, not good enough to win a title, and lacks cap space?

Why would any free agent want to come to a team that has NOTHING except Rondo, an aging Pierce and scraps?

Mike

A team coming off being title contenders for the last five years, with a max deal offer, a top flight NBA point guard, and a HoF veteran wing man.

The situation sounds better already. Does Perkins make the C's a more attractive option? Not really, what his contract could do is keep the C's from even being an option.

Can the C's with Rondo, Perkins, and an aging Pierce contend going forward?

I don't see the logic in this. How does keeping Perkins mean that you can't go for a FA? Having contended for the last 5 years doesn't mean anything to a FA that looks at the roster and sees Rondo plus a bunch of scrubs and an old Pierce. Yea, Pierce is a future HOF player, but would a top FA have wanted to sign on a team with an old Karl Malone or an old Charles Barkley for example?

Perkins, Rondo, and Pierce being on the cap with a moderate contract for a big man will mean the Celtics won't be able to get a max level FA. They'll have to pay Avery Bradley and another first round pick, there combined salaries will total too much for a big time FA move.

We could still pursue a FA, but in the 8-10 million dollar range. Not the sort of talent that can contend with Rondo.

There's still a basic question you're not answering.  Why would any big time FA want to come to a Boston team that's just Rondo, an aging Pierce and scraps?

Mike

That is a very good point.  But (at least on the current CBA), it is a heck of a lot easier to make good trades when you have cap space and short term contracts, than when you have roleplayers locked up in big deals.

Its not just about signing free agents, it is about cap flexibility to allow you the most opportunities to get those stars, however they become available. 

[Fafnir]

What good is a secure center spot on a team that's too good to get a high draft pick, not good enough to win a title, and lacks cap space?

Why would any free agent want to come to a team that has NOTHING except Rondo, an aging Pierce and scraps?

Mike

A team coming off being title contenders for the last five years, with a max deal offer, a top flight NBA point guard, and a HoF veteran wing man.

The situation sounds better already. Does Perkins make the C's a more attractive option? Not really, what his contract could do is keep the C's from even being an option.

Can the C's with Rondo, Perkins, and an aging Pierce contend going forward?

I don't see the logic in this. How does keeping Perkins mean that you can't go for a FA? Having contended for the last 5 years doesn't mean anything to a FA that looks at the roster and sees Rondo plus a bunch of scrubs and an old Pierce. Yea, Pierce is a future HOF player, but would a top FA have wanted to sign on a team with an old Karl Malone or an old Charles Barkley for example?

Perkins, Rondo, and Pierce being on the cap with a moderate contract for a big man will mean the Celtics won't be able to get a max level FA. They'll have to pay Avery Bradley and another first round pick, there combined salaries will total too much for a big time FA move.

We could still pursue a FA, but in the 8-10 million dollar range. Not the sort of talent that can contend with Rondo.

There's still a basic question you're not answering.  Why would any big time FA want to come to a Boston team that's just Rondo, an aging Pierce and scraps?

Mike

Because Rondo is a top player in the league, and other teams that have cap space aren't likely to have another top tier player to pair with such a FA.

It sure worked for Miami didn't it?

Even if it doesn't having cap space to work with makes it much easier to rebuild. If we just have Rondo, ageing Pierce, Perk, and scraps is our situation one where the C's can contend? Or would the C's be better of being an also ran in the playoffs ala Pierce's early career.