Carmelo Anthony Should Take a Lesson From Steve Nash

[Finkelskyhook]

Steve Nash doesn't care about winning. It's not important enough to him.

Completely agree.  If Nash cared about winning, he'd make an effort at both ends of the court.

By that logic Perkins doesn't care about winning since he's a bad offensive player. I mean if he cared he'd try not to turn it over so much or bobble passes for easy dunks.

*insert Rondo with ft issues*,
*insert Dwight Howard with ft issues*
etc...

All the effort in the world doesn't change things sometimes.

There is no logic to that argument since Perkins' improving game offensively reflects his effort to improve.  His FG percentage reflects his knowledge of his limitations.  The same can be said for Howard.  Rondo, Howard, and Perk have improved every season offensively and defensively.

Nash shows no effort whatsoever on the defensive end and never has. If anything, he's regressed defensively...If that's possible.  His team doesn't win when the playoffs come around because his team is always playing shorthanded defensively.  With the kinds of instincts / skills Nash has offensively, you'd think he'd play Iversonesque defense from time to time and at least occasionally cheat a passing lane.  They can build any team around him they want.  It's not going to net him a championship because the good teams will exploit the defensive liability that Nash is.

The snitchster makes a pedestrian effort defensively.  He's much better defensively than he was when he came into the league.  While I'm no fan of Anthony, I see him making the same effort every game in spite of the distractions.  At least he's not overtly tanking for a trade ala Tank Carter, Iverson and McGrady.

Pertaining to Los Nash running his mouth about our country....Perhaps he ought to become a citizen so he actually affect some kind of change in the voting booth instead of the cowardly way he does it now.  I'd have no problem with him expressing his views in Canada.

[boom]

AI and DPOY Camby have been there. Martin is a great defender. Nene is a legit big-man on offense. Billups is a legit PG. He has always been surrounded by players. Lebron would have had great success with those rosters.

The team got rid of Camby for financial issue, so I'm not sure that's a ringing endorsement for why Carmelo should stay in Denver.

Kmart and Nene is one of the worst starting big men combinations in the league; they're pretty much the definition of mediocrity.  Billups is 34 years old.

Basically, the Nuggets are filled with mediocre to pretty good players, many of whom are over the hill.  Denver is about a season away from a total rebuild, with or without Carmelo.  What reason, other than blind loyalty, is there for him to stay in Denver?

Not to mention that this should be treated like a gift for Denver. They're going to get a haul for Carmelo Anthony, and will have two other pieces they could trade. For a team that's seen their peak, they're on the verge of getting a bail out when it comes to rebuilding.

They aren't going to get a 'haul' if Anthony demands a trade to NY. That is my only problem with the way Carmelo is acting. If he is only going to accept a trade to NY he severely hurts negotiating

Not true at all. What team in the league is going to give a significant amount w/o getting an extension from him? I know reports are that 2 teams are willing to have him just as a rental, but I'd imagine the pieces there are pretty small.

Well, that is my point what I am hearing is that NY is the only team he would sign an extention with which limits negotiations for Denver to get better offers with other teams who would be willing to give him an extention.

Why would Melo care about anything other than hitting Free Agency? I dont get this argument at all. Denver can trade him to anyone in the league. Ship him up to Minny if they want. But why would Melo sign an extension to play for a team he doesn't want to, especially if it's not a place he'd like to start a family and raise kids in? He's been with the Nuggets for 7 years, never slacked off from most accounts, and gave it his all. He's played out his contract, now he's free to choose whatever he wants to do once that contract is done.

Imagine if your boss sends you to another company that you have no desire to work for, why would you sign an extension to help out your current employer?

To put it bluntly, any other view point is just ignorant to how the real world and the NBA works.

[StartOrien]

Also, I know its really refreshing to have an athlete stay loyal to his team but Steve Nash really should be trying to find his way out of Phoenix. They made an excellent deal recently, but they're no where close to being able to capitalize on his talents. At this point, you could even argue that Phoenix is hurting themselves holding onto Nash b/c he's keeping them mediocre enough to hurt their chances of getting a top 5 pick.

[Chris]

What are my options? Quit?

Actually, reading between the lines, I think Nash will be traded.  I think he has made it clear to management that he would be open to a trade...but he doesn't want to undercut their strength in negotiations (which may lead to him not being traded at all).

In fact, I would not be the least bit surprised to see Nash going to NJ as part of this whole deal. 

[Who]

What are my options? Quit?

Actually, reading between the lines, I think Nash will be traded.  I think he has made it clear to management that he would be open to a trade...but he doesn't want to undercut their strength in negotiations (which may lead to him not being traded at all).

In fact, I would not be the least bit surprised to see Nash going to NJ as part of this whole deal. 

Phoenix are not going to trade Nash. He is their meal ticket.

He is worth too much them financially and in terms of morale.

They are only going to part with Nash if he forces his way out or if his game declines ... but as long as he keeps ticking and keeps letting them do whatever they want to do, he is going nowhere.

[boom]

What are my options? Quit?

Actually, reading between the lines, I think Nash will be traded.  I think he has made it clear to management that he would be open to a trade...but he doesn't want to undercut their strength in negotiations (which may lead to him not being traded at all).

In fact, I would not be the least bit surprised to see Nash going to NJ as part of this whole deal. 

Nash and Melo....drooooooooool

[Chris]

What are my options? Quit?

Actually, reading between the lines, I think Nash will be traded.  I think he has made it clear to management that he would be open to a trade...but he doesn't want to undercut their strength in negotiations (which may lead to him not being traded at all).

In fact, I would not be the least bit surprised to see Nash going to NJ as part of this whole deal. 

Phoenix are not going to trade Nash. He is their meal ticket.

He is worth too much them financially and in terms of morale.

They are only going to part with Nash if he forces his way out or if his game declines ... but as long as he keeps ticking and keeps letting them do whatever they want to do, he is going nowhere.

I'm saying maybe he is forcing his way out a bit...just not publically. 

[Witch-King]

I wish Steve Nash played for the Celtics.

[Finkelskyhook]

I wish Steve Nash played for the Celtics.

Nash would have fit in perfectly to the Rivers no-defense-none-of-the-time system pre-Garnett.

[Who]

What are my options? Quit?

Actually, reading between the lines, I think Nash will be traded.  I think he has made it clear to management that he would be open to a trade...but he doesn't want to undercut their strength in negotiations (which may lead to him not being traded at all).

In fact, I would not be the least bit surprised to see Nash going to NJ as part of this whole deal. 

Phoenix are not going to trade Nash. He is their meal ticket.

He is worth too much them financially and in terms of morale.

They are only going to part with Nash if he forces his way out or if his game declines ... but as long as he keeps ticking and keeps letting them do whatever they want to do, he is going nowhere.

I'm saying maybe he is forcing his way out a bit...just not publically. 

Ah sorry, I misunderstood.

I thought you were saying -- by "open to a trade" -- that Nash had told management that he would welcome a trade but isn't going to push for it ... that he'd be happy with a trade but wouldn't force a trade ... which is what I think he is doing + why I think he won't be traded. 

I think he has to strongly push and force the Suns into making a deal which I do not think he wants to do. I think his statements are truthful and that he really is happy playing with some of his teammates (Grant Hill especially) and living in Phoenix. That those perks are more important to him than playing for a Championship.

[Chris]

What are my options? Quit?

Actually, reading between the lines, I think Nash will be traded.  I think he has made it clear to management that he would be open to a trade...but he doesn't want to undercut their strength in negotiations (which may lead to him not being traded at all).

In fact, I would not be the least bit surprised to see Nash going to NJ as part of this whole deal. 

Phoenix are not going to trade Nash. He is their meal ticket.

He is worth too much them financially and in terms of morale.

They are only going to part with Nash if he forces his way out or if his game declines ... but as long as he keeps ticking and keeps letting them do whatever they want to do, he is going nowhere.

I'm saying maybe he is forcing his way out a bit...just not publically. 

Ah sorry, I misunderstood.

I thought you were saying -- by "open to a trade" -- that Nash had told management that he would welcome a trade but isn't going to push for it ... that he'd be happy with a trade but wouldn't force a trade ... which is what I think he is doing + why I think he won't be traded. 

I think he has to strongly push and force the Suns into making a deal which I do not think he wants to do. I think his statements are truthful and that he really is happy playing with some of his teammates (Grant Hill especially) and living in Phoenix. That those perks are more important to him than playing for a Championship.

Well, I guess I think it is somewhere in the middle.  I think Nash is making it clear he wants a trade.  But instead of giving them an ultimatum, I think he is playing on their "loyalty". 

I think it is something similar to what Paul Pierce did with Danny.  Basically told him that he has given his heart and sole to the franchise, and they owe it to him to either give him a winning team, or trade him. 

[Fafnir]

Steve Nash doesn't care about winning. It's not important enough to him.

Completely agree.  If Nash cared about winning, he'd make an effort at both ends of the court.

By that logic Perkins doesn't care about winning since he's a bad offensive player. I mean if he cared he'd try not to turn it over so much or bobble passes for easy dunks.

*insert Rondo with ft issues*,
*insert Dwight Howard with ft issues*
etc...

All the effort in the world doesn't change things sometimes.

There is no logic to that argument since Perkins' improving game offensively reflects his effort to improve.  His FG percentage reflects his knowledge of his limitations.  The same can be said for Howard.  Rondo, Howard, and Perk have improved every season offensively and defensively.

Nash shows no effort whatsoever on the defensive end and never has. If anything, he's regressed defensively...If that's possible.  His team doesn't win when the playoffs come around because his team is always playing shorthanded defensively.  With the kinds of instincts / skills Nash has offensively, you'd think he'd play Iversonesque defense from time to time and at least occasionally cheat a passing lane.  They can build any team around him they want.  It's not going to net him a championship because the good teams will exploit the defensive liability that Nash is.

The snitchster makes a pedestrian effort defensively.  He's much better defensively than he was when he came into the league.  While I'm no fan of Anthony, I see him making the same effort every game in spite of the distractions.  At least he's not overtly tanking for a trade ala Tank Carter, Iverson and McGrady.

Pertaining to Los Nash running his mouth about our country....Perhaps he ought to become a citizen so he actually affect some kind of change in the voting booth instead of the cowardly way he does it now.  I'd have no problem with him expressing his views in Canada.

But Perkins is still bad offensively, so clearly he's not "trying hard enough". If you'd apply the same lens to players you don't dislike for apparent issues outside of basketball.

I think Nash gives effort on defensive end, he's just a bad defender. I actually rate him better defensively overall than Iverson, because he'll at least try and rotate within the schemes. Nash over helps at times, but he's not gambling recklessly like Iverson.

With regards to his political statements, citizenship isn't required with regards to the first amendment or political activism. And our country is better for it on both counts, especially when conducted with class like Nash has.

[dpaps]

I think it's hard to tell somebody that he has to spend his entire career in a city simply because that's the team that drafted him.

Nash is comfortable in his living and playing situation.  Carmelo isn't, for whatever reason.  Since the money will be the same, or more, if he stays in Denver, it seems like he has priorities outside of money.  I can't hate on a guy for leaving to pursue happiness elsewhere.

The only time I get upset by FAs moving on is when you have a situation like Lebron's, where the organization catered to his every wish and he still couldn't give them the respect of being straight up about his intentions.  That was handled in a no-class manner, and Lebron deserves the ridicule he got. 

However, Carmelo isn't doing that.  Rather, he's told his franchise he's leaving, and is letting them shop him for compensation.  He isn't threatening to block trades, he's just not committing to an extension right now.

Is the Carmelo situation so different than the KG (or Pierce) situations, where KG talked about opting out and leaving, and Pierce talked about "pulling a Kobe" and demanding a trade?

All that said, I do like Steve Nash.  I'm disappointed that the organization hasn't built a winner around him.

KG spent more then a decade with a team that never came close to giving him enough talent. KG would have loved some of the help Carmelo had in Denver at times.

What is this great supporting cast in Denver? In my opinion, they have NEVER been a championship contender. They've never been close to being as good as the Lakers or Celtics since 2008.

Billups then what...JR Smith? Kenyon Martin? Aaron Afflalo? Birdman? Shelden Williams? Gary Forbes?

If the Nuggets faced us in the finals I would bet my mortgage on the Green. I'd also bet my mortgage that the Nuggets wouldn't get through the Lakers.

KG had Sam Cassell and Spreewell. They made the 2004 Conference Finals. Pierce made the Conference Finals with us in 2001. Would Pierce have been that terrible of a person if we had won the lottery in 2007 instead of trading for KG and Ray Ray, and he had asked for a trade?

AI and DPOY Camby have been there. Martin is a great defender. Nene is a legit big-man on offense. Billups is a legit PG. He has always been surrounded by players. Lebron would have had great success with those rosters.

Yeah Iverson was great by that point in his career, and we know Kmart is the NBA's Brett Favre, never misses a game, you can always count on Kenyon to contribute every game.

 So what's your point? That because Melo has had a little bit of talent around him he's not allowed to leave in Free Agency??? Ridiculous.

No nobody said that. YOU insinuated he had NO talent at all around him which is not true. Not saying there is alot of talent but more then some star players have had at points in their career

Uhhhh maybe you should read the thread before commenting?

This whole post is about bashing Carmelo because he is going to leave Denver as a free agent. Someone made an argument that he's in a similar situation to KG in Minnesota. Someone else said Melo has so much more talent around him in Denver than KG did, so Melo shouldn't leave. I never said Melo had NO talent, learn to read.

Even if he has more talent around him than some star players, why can't he be a free agent? Again, it just makes no sense and is an illogical argument. RIDICULOUS.

[Fafnir]

Lets tone down the caps, the "learn to read", etc... This thread is still going strong no need to force a lock.

[Rondo2287]

Steve Nash doesn't care about winning. It's not important enough to him.

Completely agree.  If Nash cared about winning, he'd make an effort at both ends of the court.

By that logic Perkins doesn't care about winning since he's a bad offensive player. I mean if he cared he'd try not to turn it over so much or bobble passes for easy dunks.

*insert Rondo with ft issues*,
*insert Dwight Howard with ft issues*
etc...

All the effort in the world doesn't change things sometimes.

There is no logic to that argument since Perkins' improving game offensively reflects his effort to improve.  His FG percentage reflects his knowledge of his limitations.  The same can be said for Howard.  Rondo, Howard, and Perk have improved every season offensively and defensively.

Nash shows no effort whatsoever on the defensive end and never has. If anything, he's regressed defensively...If that's possible.  His team doesn't win when the playoffs come around because his team is always playing shorthanded defensively.  With the kinds of instincts / skills Nash has offensively, you'd think he'd play Iversonesque defense from time to time and at least occasionally cheat a passing lane.  They can build any team around him they want.  It's not going to net him a championship because the good teams will exploit the defensive liability that Nash is.

The snitchster makes a pedestrian effort defensively.  He's much better defensively than he was when he came into the league.  While I'm no fan of Anthony, I see him making the same effort every game in spite of the distractions.  At least he's not overtly tanking for a trade ala Tank Carter, Iverson and McGrady.

Pertaining to Los Nash running his mouth about our country....Perhaps he ought to become a citizen so he actually affect some kind of change in the voting booth instead of the cowardly way he does it now.  I'd have no problem with him expressing his views in Canada.

But Perkins is still bad offensively, so clearly he's not "trying hard enough". If you'd apply the same lens to players you don't dislike for apparent issues outside of basketball.

I think Nash gives effort on defensive end, he's just a bad defender. I actually rate him better defensively overall than Iverson, because he'll at least try and rotate within the schemes. Nash over helps at times, but he's not gambling recklessly like Iverson.

With regards to his political statements, citizenship isn't required with regards to the first amendment or political activism. And our country is better for it on both counts, especially when conducted with class like Nash has.

The only issue I have here is that its a common belief that Defense is effort and Offense is talent.  Im not saying I agree with it but that may be why people think Nash isnt giving the effort but perk is.