The real reason why the Celtics need to not sign contracts past 2012. (opinion)

[Fafnir]

And just for some perspective on how good Howard is...

Dwight at 25 years old - 21.7 points, 12.5 boards, 2.3 blocks and 1 assist per game.

Shaq and 25 years old - 28.3 points, 11.4 boards, 2.4 blocks and 2.4 assists per game.

Dwight is awesome, but he's clearly a step down from Shaq simply because of his offensive limitations.  So, let's not get carried away with the idea that Dwight = multiple titles.

Mike

Shaq wasn't the same sort of ++ defender that Howard is.

Saying a C isn't as good as Shaq who's somewhere high on the all-time C list (especially during his peak) doesn't really reflect Howard's value.

I also think you're severely under rating how much better Rondo is than Jameer/Turk at creating offense.

[Sizzlack]

And just for some perspective on how good Howard is...

Dwight at 25 years old - 21.7 points, 12.5 boards, 2.3 blocks and 1 assist per game.

Shaq and 25 years old - 28.3 points, 11.4 boards, 2.4 blocks and 2.4 assists per game.

Dwight is awesome, but he's clearly a step down from Shaq simply because of his offensive limitations.  So, let's not get carried away with the idea that Dwight = multiple titles.

Mike

Shaq wasn't the same sort of ++ defender that Howard is.

Saying a C isn't as good as Shaq who's somewhere high on the all-time C list (especially during his peak) doesn't really reflect Howard's value.

I also think you're severely under rating how much better Rondo is than Jameer/Turk at creating offense.

TP for that one.

Well said.

[Papatrichs]

hope he watches "the Association" to get a glimpse of what it feels like to be a Celtic....

[PosImpos]

I don't think OKC will have cap space at that point. Unless they don't sign Jeff Green or anyone else this coming year. Westbrook will be on his extension at that point as well.

The point is, there are other teams out there.  If OKC drops out, someone else will make a trade, and jump in the race.

I just can't see how anyone can watch the whole Lebron thing, and how that played out in NY and NJ, and get their hopes up about Howard. 

I tend to agree with this sentiment.  It worked out great or Miami, but most of the other teams in the "sweepstakes" got screwed. 

[Celtics4ever]

Shaq had a better offensive moves though.  Dwight is dunk or nothing presently.  His offensive or lack thereof is poor at times.   A mid range jumper and a better jump hook and he'd be an all time great in the making.   That being said he is still probably one of the best if not the best center in the game.  But he has room to improve still and that is scary.

[wdleehi]

And just for some perspective on how good Howard is...

Dwight at 25 years old - 21.7 points, 12.5 boards, 2.3 blocks and 1 assist per game.

Shaq and 25 years old - 28.3 points, 11.4 boards, 2.4 blocks and 2.4 assists per game.

Dwight is awesome, but he's clearly a step down from Shaq simply because of his offensive limitations.  So, let's not get carried away with the idea that Dwight = multiple titles.

Mike

Shaq wasn't the same sort of ++ defender that Howard is.

Saying a C isn't as good as Shaq who's somewhere high on the all-time C list (especially during his peak) doesn't really reflect Howard's value.

I also think you're severely under rating how much better Rondo is than Jameer/Turk at creating offense.

And remember, Nelson was injured for much of that playoff run. 


Howard took a team with the best offensive players being Hedo and Lewis to the Finals.


Now imagine what he could do with Rondo and Pierce. 

[wdleehi]

I don't think OKC will have cap space at that point. Unless they don't sign Jeff Green or anyone else this coming year. Westbrook will be on his extension at that point as well.

The point is, there are other teams out there.  If OKC drops out, someone else will make a trade, and jump in the race.

I just can't see how anyone can watch the whole Lebron thing, and how that played out in NY and NJ, and get their hopes up about Howard. 

I tend to agree with this sentiment.  It worked out great or Miami, but most of the other teams in the "sweepstakes" got screwed. 

Worked out for Chicago and NY.  Both are better this year.


Basically, if you have some talent in place and can add a good FA, you can improve.

[dpaps]

I see your point but that also comes with risks too. Is Dwight Howard an upgrade over Perkins and BBD? Maybe.

WHAT?

[PosImpos]

I don't think OKC will have cap space at that point. Unless they don't sign Jeff Green or anyone else this coming year. Westbrook will be on his extension at that point as well.

The point is, there are other teams out there.  If OKC drops out, someone else will make a trade, and jump in the race.

I just can't see how anyone can watch the whole Lebron thing, and how that played out in NY and NJ, and get their hopes up about Howard. 

I tend to agree with this sentiment.  It worked out great or Miami, but most of the other teams in the "sweepstakes" got screwed. 

Worked out for Chicago and NY.  Both are better this year.


Basically, if you have some talent in place and can add a good FA, you can improve.

What makes you think the "consolation prizes" will be nearly as good in 2012 as they were this summer?  It worked out for Chicago and NY because they had decent backup plans.

Sounds to me like the whole plan would be to get Dwight Howard here.  What's our backup plan?  Suck for 5 years?

[wdleehi]

I don't think OKC will have cap space at that point. Unless they don't sign Jeff Green or anyone else this coming year. Westbrook will be on his extension at that point as well.

The point is, there are other teams out there.  If OKC drops out, someone else will make a trade, and jump in the race.

I just can't see how anyone can watch the whole Lebron thing, and how that played out in NY and NJ, and get their hopes up about Howard. 

I tend to agree with this sentiment.  It worked out great or Miami, but most of the other teams in the "sweepstakes" got screwed. 

Worked out for Chicago and NY.  Both are better this year.


Basically, if you have some talent in place and can add a good FA, you can improve.

What makes you think the "consolation prizes" will be nearly as good in 2012 as they were this summer?  It worked out for Chicago and NY because they had decent backup plans.

Sounds to me like the whole plan would be to get Dwight Howard here.  What's our backup plan?  Suck for 5 years?

So, is the better plan to sign Davis and Perk for large contracts and watch a team to good for a good pick but not a contender?


Do you think KG, Pierce and Ray are going to play forever?



They Celtics are looking to have a clean slate around Rondo (with the exception of Pierce).  What is wrong with that?

[PosImpos]

I don't think OKC will have cap space at that point. Unless they don't sign Jeff Green or anyone else this coming year. Westbrook will be on his extension at that point as well.

The point is, there are other teams out there.  If OKC drops out, someone else will make a trade, and jump in the race.

I just can't see how anyone can watch the whole Lebron thing, and how that played out in NY and NJ, and get their hopes up about Howard.  

I tend to agree with this sentiment.  It worked out great or Miami, but most of the other teams in the "sweepstakes" got screwed.  

Worked out for Chicago and NY.  Both are better this year.


Basically, if you have some talent in place and can add a good FA, you can improve.

What makes you think the "consolation prizes" will be nearly as good in 2012 as they were this summer?  It worked out for Chicago and NY because they had decent backup plans.

Sounds to me like the whole plan would be to get Dwight Howard here.  What's our backup plan?  Suck for 5 years?

So, is the better plan to sign Davis and Perk for large contracts and watch a team to good for a good pick but not a contender?


Do you think KG, Pierce and Ray are going to play forever?



They Celtics are looking to have a clean slate around Rondo (with the exception of Pierce).  What is wrong with that?

Nothing. And I agree that it doesn't make sense to sign BBD or Perk to extensions, given the uncertain future of our club.

I'm just saying I'm uncomfortable with the notion that the plan for the future of the team should center around the possible acquisition of one particular free agent.  

Danny should keep his eyes and ears open for any opportunity to set the club up for the future, and shouldn't single-mindedly focus on acquiring one particular player, no matter how good they might be.  The single-minded mentality is what caused the Knicks, Nets, and various other teams to be so atrocious for the last few years - and there's no guarantee that the Knicks, Nets, or any of the other teams will really be competitive anytime soon.

[wdleehi]

Nothing. And I agree that it doesn't make sense to sign BBD or Perk to extensions, given the uncertain future of our club.

I'm just saying I'm uncomfortable with the notion that the plan for the future of the team should center around the possible acquisition of one particular free agent. 

I have no issue when it doesn't have a major effect on the current team's chances to win.


This is a situation where teams were dumping good players to be under the cap. 

[billysan]

I think another possibility that hasnt been mentioned for Howard is a sign and trade. Orlando offers Howard 'crazy' money, (which they can do) and he takes it with a deal on the table to a team of his choice. That completely negates the cap room argument and would only be unlikely if Howard thought the team he joined gave up too much to get him.

A team with talented young players, stockpiled draft picks and a solid core could be very attractive. Portland, OKC, Phoenix, Chicago, even the Hawks could make something out of that scenario just to name a couple.

[Fafnir]

Plus if the C's did get Howard, or another FA of that caliber it is entirely possible that they could work out something to bring KG/Ray back to be more role players.

I know Rondo/Pierce would be lobbying hard with both of them no matter how they look physically at that point.

[PosImpos]

Nothing. And I agree that it doesn't make sense to sign BBD or Perk to extensions, given the uncertain future of our club.

I'm just saying I'm uncomfortable with the notion that the plan for the future of the team should center around the possible acquisition of one particular free agent. 

I have no issue when it doesn't have a major effect on the current team's chances to win.


This is a situation where teams were dumping good players to be under the cap. 

Agreed, and I'm speaking in terms of future moves (over the next year or two), not immediate ones.  Obviously our team is great the way it is right now.

Really what I'm suggesting is that I'd be perfectly happy with a move that would net us a few really solid players as opposed to an all-out gamble to get Dwight Howard. 

This will come into play if Dwight Howard takes his player option to stay in Orlando for the final season of his contract (likely, since the next CBA will probably be frugal).  In that scenario, the C's would be faced with a choice of whether to make moves in 2012 or stand pat for a year and hope they can get Dwight.