Thorpe says Mike and Tommy are not "informed"

[barefacedmonk]

Gotta agree. Celtics and Spurs are both pretty bad. Tommy is one of the most unpleasant to listen to in the league when he starts screaming. Spurs have homerism issues too, though they don't make ears bleed.

Tommy is a bit of a broken record in commentary, but I'm not sure many local color guys are that up to date anyway.

There is a difference between being uninformed and being a homer, no? No sane person who knows basketball can accuse Mike or Tommy or being uninformed.

[Spilling Green Dye]

I love listening to Mike & Tommy.  While Tommy may not keep up to date stat wise on current players, he does provide unique insight and will definitely compliment opposing players when they make a smart play.

Mike Gorman is far and away my favorite play by play guy in any sport, in large part b/c he doesn't force it.  There's nothing wrong with not speaking EVERY second.  He does his job w/o yelling, which I love.

[Celtics4ever]

Tommy is great.  I am a Celtics fan so I like Tommy.   I like it when the announcers are rooting for us too.  I don't need analysts to do too much to help me understand the game so I don't mind if the color commentary is a little green.  

David Thorpe, ain't going to the basketball hall of fame like Tommy.  With guys like Chick Hearn and Johnny Most getting in, its conceivable that Gorman and Tommy get in as announcers some day.   David Thorpe is a nobody folks.  He works for ESON and Scouts Inc but he ain't heading to the hall of fame.  He should stick to training B level players like Hasleem and Deng which he does very well.  Top players don't train with him but ones on the outside of the perimeter looking in do train with him.  Noah trained with him and I would not brag about that if you realize his shot mechanics are so flawed.

Tommy
1957 Rookie of the Year
Six-time NBA All-Star
1973 Coach of the Year
Named to the Basketball Hall of Fame as a player in 1986
Recipient of the 1995 Jack McMahon Award by the National Basketball Coaches Association
Recipient of the 2009 Chuck Daly Lifetime Achievement Award by the NBA Coaches Association

As Stan Lee says Nuff said.

[Kuberski33]

Tommy won 8 NBA titles in 9 seasons as a player, which to me is just mind boggling.  Only Russell can claim a better record.  Tommy also won 2 more as a coach, taking the remains of the late 60's Russell era and rebuilding with Cowens, Jo Jo White etc.

He at one time was the #1 analyst for CBS, has done the Celtics games for a million years and can speak from experience as a player and coach and has been on the scene for as long as the Celtics have been relevant in Boston. Yeah, he doesn't follow the league as closely as many, but the observations he does make are spot on.

My only criticism is he goes off on the refs way too much but overall, Mike and Tommy are terrific together. 

[xmuscularghandix]

Had no clue who this guy even was.

You can say he’s a homer but this guy should be smacked for calling Tommy uninformed.

[Fafnir]

I don't mind Thorpe, he is as IP says very biased towards his clients.

But for all of those who go through Tommy's playing accomplishments, plenty of great players are idiots when it comes to the sport they play. If you've had the "pleasure" of listening to Joe Morgan announce or give analysis you've seen a good example of that.

[indeedproceed]

Gotta agree. Celtics and Spurs are both pretty bad. Tommy is one of the most unpleasant to listen to in the league when he starts screaming. Spurs have homerism issues too, though they don't make ears bleed.

Tommy is a bit of a broken record in commentary, but I'm not sure many local color guys are that up to date anyway.

There is a difference between being uninformed and being a homer, no? No sane person who knows basketball can accuse Mike or Tommy or being uninformed.

I would personally guarantee that any one of the authors on Celticsblog knows more about individual NBA players not on the Celtics than Tommy. In that regard, he's uninformed.

But, I'd also personally guarantee Tommy knows more about the game of basketball and the Celtics as an organization than any one of the authors. In that regard, which is the regard that counts, Tommy is a freakin savant.

[guava_wrench]

Gotta agree. Celtics and Spurs are both pretty bad. Tommy is one of the most unpleasant to listen to in the league when he starts screaming. Spurs have homerism issues too, though they don't make ears bleed.

Tommy is a bit of a broken record in commentary, but I'm not sure many local color guys are that up to date anyway.

There is a difference between being uninformed and being a homer, no? No sane person who knows basketball can accuse Mike or Tommy or being uninformed.

The Spurs guys are homers. I can't vouch for how up to date they are on players.

Tommy is a homer, and is far from elite when it comes to being informed. People mention completely unrelated stats in this thread. Being informed requires keeping up on current players, not guys from 20 years ago. Tommy is so caught up in nonsense during his commentary, that it isn't that clear how much knowledge he has about guys. But since I have heard plenty of guys from other teams who don't seem that up to date, I'm not sure there is anything particularly bad about Tommy in that respect.

I can see how fans who like homerism for their team would like Tommy. Fair enough. But those fans should also be able to accept that Tommy is one of the worst announcers for non-Celtics fans to listen to because he adds almost nothing to the game for them. If someone asks a non-Celtics fan with league pass who is the worst color guy in the NBA and they mention Tommy, what is wrong with them saying that? Aren't they obviously correct from that non-Celtics fans' perspective?

To be fair to Tommy, he does talk a lot about offensive and defensive systems that many color guys across the league don't try to tackle, so it is dangerous to critique him on that. I would hope that Thorpe is only talking about his current player knowledge. Thorpe should have avoided the 'informed' part and just stuck to 'most unpleasant to listen to' or 'most biased during a game'. Or even most one-sided in his information, which I would concede is a good trait for the home crew since the home fans want to hear about what their team should do.

I hate the Lakers, but I love their color commentator's neutrality during games. I am jealous, though I can understand why some prefer someone like Tommy. If I had to listen to a Lakers commentator whose bias so blinded him to the actual action on the court and often caused him to start yelling, I would mute the TV (as I often do to Tommy) and say he was the worst color guy in the league.

If you are the type who is into the "us versus them" and likes those who publicly embrace that, well, no problem. But of course Thorpe thinks our broadcasts bring little to the table because it is so hard to get past the bias. The reality is that it is a general consensus among disinterested fans that Tommy is bad. (remember that graph from like 2 years ago?) This doesn't mean Celtics fans shouldn't like them. It just means that only Celtics fans like them.

There are actually broadcasts on NBATV where I can't tell which team's broadcast crew is on. As an NBA fan who is watching 2 teams I have no stake it, that is very pleasant.

[incoherent]

"It could be a Rondo to KG alley-oop"

Quote from the "uninformed" Tommy Heinsohn 10 seconds before a game winning Rondo to KG alley-oop.  Time to just eat your words Thorpe.

[indeedproceed]

"It could be a Rondo to KG alley-oop"

Quote from the "uninformed" Tommy Heinsohn 10 seconds before a game winning Rondo to KG alley-oop.  Time to just eat your words Thorpe.

Mentally, I thought it would be a Pierce to Rondo ally.

[BballTim]

Gotta agree. Celtics and Spurs are both pretty bad. Tommy is one of the most unpleasant to listen to in the league when he starts screaming. Spurs have homerism issues too, though they don't make ears bleed.

Tommy is a bit of a broken record in commentary, but I'm not sure many local color guys are that up to date anyway.

There is a difference between being uninformed and being a homer, no? No sane person who knows basketball can accuse Mike or Tommy or being uninformed.

The Spurs guys are homers. I can't vouch for how up to date they are on players.

Tommy is a homer, and is far from elite when it comes to being informed. People mention completely unrelated stats in this thread. Being informed requires keeping up on current players, not guys from 20 years ago. Tommy is so caught up in nonsense during his commentary, that it isn't that clear how much knowledge he has about guys. But since I have heard plenty of guys from other teams who don't seem that up to date, I'm not sure there is anything particularly bad about Tommy in that respect.

I can see how fans who like homerism for their team would like Tommy. Fair enough. But those fans should also be able to accept that Tommy is one of the worst announcers for non-Celtics fans to listen to because he adds almost nothing to the game for them. If someone asks a non-Celtics fan with league pass who is the worst color guy in the NBA and they mention Tommy, what is wrong with them saying that? Aren't they obviously correct from that non-Celtics fans' perspective?

To be fair to Tommy, he does talk a lot about offensive and defensive systems that many color guys across the league don't try to tackle, so it is dangerous to critique him on that. I would hope that Thorpe is only talking about his current player knowledge. Thorpe should have avoided the 'informed' part and just stuck to 'most unpleasant to listen to' or 'most biased during a game'. Or even most one-sided in his information, which I would concede is a good trait for the home crew since the home fans want to hear about what their team should do.

I hate the Lakers, but I love their color commentator's neutrality during games. I am jealous, though I can understand why some prefer someone like Tommy. If I had to listen to a Lakers commentator whose bias so blinded him to the actual action on the court and often caused him to start yelling, I would mute the TV (as I often do to Tommy) and say he was the worst color guy in the league.

If you are the type who is into the "us versus them" and likes those who publicly embrace that, well, no problem. But of course Thorpe thinks our broadcasts bring little to the table because it is so hard to get past the bias. The reality is that it is a general consensus among disinterested fans that Tommy is bad. (remember that graph from like 2 years ago?) This doesn't mean Celtics fans shouldn't like them. It just means that only Celtics fans like them.

There are actually broadcasts on NBATV where I can't tell which team's broadcast crew is on. As an NBA fan who is watching 2 teams I have no stake it, that is very pleasant.

  Tommy seems to have plenty of comments on current players. Who you need to stick with, who you need to force to their right or left, who's not going to try and stop the Celts if they go to the hoop, who's going to settle for jumpshots because they don't want to take it to the hole. I'd say he knows as much of that stuff if not more than the national announcers.

[Bahku]

In Thorpe's case, it's better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to open one's mouth and remove all doubt.

[ballin]

"It could be a Rondo to KG alley-oop"

Quote from the "uninformed" Tommy Heinsohn 10 seconds before a game winning Rondo to KG alley-oop.  Time to just eat your words Thorpe.

lol +1

Tommy knows his stuff. Biased as hell, but when it comes to the game of basketball, his knowledge is immense.

[indeedproceed]

 Tommy seems to have plenty of comments on current players. Who you need to stick with, who you need to force to their right or left, who's not going to try and stop the Celts if they go to the hoop, who's going to settle for jumpshots because they don't want to take it to the hole. I'd say he knows as much of that stiff if not more than the national announcers.

I think Tommy is very familiar with players he's seen play the Celtics multiple times over the years, especially scorers, and that analysis is very important.

But ask Tommy what he thinks about Ersan Ilyasova or Tiago Spitter, or Louis Amundson, he'll have a very superficial comment at best.

But, you've got to think Marv Albert or Reggie Miller won't do too well there either.

[BballTim]

 Tommy seems to have plenty of comments on current players. Who you need to stick with, who you need to force to their right or left, who's not going to try and stop the Celts if they go to the hoop, who's going to settle for jumpshots because they don't want to take it to the hole. I'd say he knows as much of that stiff if not more than the national announcers.

I think Tommy is very familiar with players he's seen play the Celtics multiple times over the years, especially scorers, and that analysis is very important.

But ask Tommy what he thinks about Ersan Ilyasova or Tiago Spitter, or Louis Amundson, he'll have a very superficial comment at best.

But, you've got to think Marv Albert or Reggie Miller won't do too well there either.

  I think tonight he was talking about players like Young and Favors, not exactly your Kobe/LeBron types. I think he might surprise you if you asked him about Ilyasova or Amundson.