Sox sign Crawford 7 years 142 mill

[rondohondo]

 ilike the signing. He is definitely being over paid, but he is still in his prime for 5+  years.

I like him at# 6 in the batting order because he is very capable of driving in runs,  but he can also set up the bottom of the order( JD Drew, Salty and scutaro) to drive him in with his base stealing ability.

I actually think he should play in RF because he can cover much more space than JD can. He is a very capable defender and could easily make the transition to RF,

Platoon JD and Kalish in LF, have cameron play the rest of the time as a 5th outfielder/pinch runner and hitter.

[libermaniac]

Given that dropping 1 spot in the lineup costs a player about 17 or so ABs during the year (e.g. games played / 9), it's hard to justify batting Ellsbury leadoff and taking that many ABs each away from Crawford, Pedroia, Gonzalez and Youks.

I like the idea of getting the best hitters the most ABs.  With this lineup, there will be plenty of men on base for any hitter (Pedroia/Crawford) to get RBIs from the leadoff spot.  After the first time through the order, batting Jacoby 9th and Pedroia or Crawford 1st accomplishes the same thing as Ellsbury leading off with Crawford/Pedroia 2nd.

[Brendan]

I disagree that Crawford has 4-5 years of "prime" years left.  I would say 1-2 max.  Crawford type players decline quickly when they hit 30 and I believe he's 29.  He got paid like he's a perennial MVP candidate and he's not.  He's not even a consistent all star player (3 time AS in his career).

Wait...what?? His prime is 2 years?? That is patently ridiculous. Rickey hit and ran well late into his career. As did Robby Alomar. He's in excellent shape and going to a great hitters ballpark to hit directly in front of Adrian Gonzales and Kevin Youkilis. This sounds like wishful thinking from a non-RedSox fan.

Ricky and Robbie were much different players - they both could hit for more pure power and draw walks at higher rates than Crawford.

[Roy H.]

I disagree that Crawford has 4-5 years of "prime" years left.  I would say 1-2 max.  Crawford type players decline quickly when they hit 30 and I believe he's 29.  He got paid like he's a perennial MVP candidate and he's not.  He's not even a consistent all star player (3 time AS in his career).

Wait...what?? His prime is 2 years?? That is patently ridiculous. Rickey hit and ran well late into his career. As did Robby Alomar. He's in excellent shape and going to a great hitters ballpark to hit directly in front of Adrian Gonzales and Kevin Youkilis. This sounds like wishful thinking from a non-RedSox fan.

Ricky and Robbie were much different players - they both could hit for more pure power and draw walks at higher rates than Crawford.

Tim Raines?  Ichiro?  Otis Nixon?  All were speed guys who were extremely successful late in their careers.

I just don't think there's any evidence that speed guys lose their legs around age 31 / 32.  Logically, the argument makes sense, but history clearly shows that elite speed guys retain much of that speed as they age.

[Brendan]

No - you misunderstand. Guys who rely on BA for a large component of SLG and OBP are highly susceptible to decline and year to year fluctuations. I don't know if speedies decline with age, but .300 hitters tend to - if you don't draw walks or hit home runs, its hard to maintain offensive value.

[Brendan]

Given that dropping 1 spot in the lineup costs a player about 17 or so ABs during the year (e.g. games played / 9), it's hard to justify batting Ellsbury leadoff and taking that many ABs each away from Crawford, Pedroia, Gonzalez and Youks.

I like the idea of getting the best hitters the most ABs.  With this lineup, there will be plenty of men on base for any hitter (Pedroia/Crawford) to get RBIs from the leadoff spot.  After the first time through the order, batting Jacoby 9th and Pedroia or Crawford 1st accomplishes the same thing as Ellsbury leading off with Crawford/Pedroia 2nd.

The limited commodity is outs. You want the best players at not using an out at the top of the lineup. I think Crawford makes as much sense at 5 as anywhere. The problem is the Sox don't have a great lead off guy. The most patient guys are Pedroia, Youk, Drew, and now Gonzalez. The L/R thing means there best lineup is different depending on the other team's starters, against righties they'd be better off doing:

Drew
Pedroia
Gonz
Youk
Crawford
Ortiz
Short
Catcher
Ellsbury

[Fan from VT]

the other thing is that out of shape guys like fielder relying on talent and coordination tend to fall off a cliff a lot more than guys like crawford who keep themselves in great shape. it's one thing to be a speed guy and just bank on natural speed; it's another to really work your body like crawford to stay in great shape.

[LB3533]

IMO, only power hitters and run producers deserve the big bucks.

Top of the order guys are not worth 20 million per year.

The Red Sox scoring ability suffered tremendously when they didn't have Ellsbury last season. Guys like Jacoby (and Crawford) can score so much easier, since you don't necessarily have to move them along after they get on base. It's one thing to need three singles to get someone from first to home, and it's completely different when he can score with 1 stolen base and a random double.

At least these are my impressions. I am not terribly baseball-savvy.

Baseball teams definitely need top of the order guys to get on base to set the table, but Crawford nor any other top of the order guys are worth 20 million per year.

It's just crazy!

Also, last year, Boston, as a team, was 2nd in all of the Majors in "Runs" scored, "Homeruns" and "RBIs" with a team ravaged with injuries to Ellsbury, Pedrioa and Youkalis.

Boston's pitching staff had the 9th worst team "ERA" in all of the Majors last year.

The only other teams with significantly worse team ERA's were the Pirates, Royals, D'Backs, Orioles and Brewers.

I would have offered 20 million per to Cliff Lee instead of Crawford.

[Rondo2287]

IMO, only power hitters and run producers deserve the big bucks.

Top of the order guys are not worth 20 million per year.

The Red Sox scoring ability suffered tremendously when they didn't have Ellsbury last season. Guys like Jacoby (and Crawford) can score so much easier, since you don't necessarily have to move them along after they get on base. It's one thing to need three singles to get someone from first to home, and it's completely different when he can score with 1 stolen base and a random double.

At least these are my impressions. I am not terribly baseball-savvy.

Baseball teams definitely need top of the order guys to get on base to set the table, but Crawford nor any other top of the order guys are worth 20 million per year.

It's just crazy!

Also, last year, Boston, as a team, was 2nd in all of the Majors in "Runs" scored, "Homeruns" and "RBIs" with a team ravaged with injuries to Ellsbury, Pedrioa and Youkalis.

Boston's pitching staff had the 9th worst team "ERA" in all of the Majors last year.

The only other teams with significantly worse team ERA's were the Pirates, Royals, D'Backs, Orioles and Brewers.

I would have offered 20 million per to Cliff Lee instead of Crawford.

And then what do you do with the other guys in your starting rotation making a boatload of money. 

Their rotation has a load of talent and should be able to figure it out.  That team that was very good offensively had alot of wholes coming into this year.  Including 1b/3b and left field.  Both of those are now filled.

If you give 20 million to lee you have to move one of your starting pitchers. 

Lackey, and Beckett are currently unmoveable because of their contracts, and if you moved one of them you would be selling incredibly low.

Lester and Buccholz are incredible bargains and I would say hold more value at their salaries than Lee at 20 mill. 

Dice-K would be the most likely guy to get rid of but I don't see that happening either.

Also keep in mind the sox were able to go out and get both the guys that they wanted and didnt have to play any games with Boras.  I think that counts for alot.

[LB3533]

I would have moved Josh Beckett or DiceK for a middle reliever or 2.

[Rondo2287]

I would have moved Josh Beckett or DiceK for a middle reliever or 2.

That makes no sense.  First of all middle relievers make the least money of any players in baseball so you are going to move a guy who just signed a huge contract for players for low money, short term contracts?  There isnt a salary cap but there arent too many teams that could take on his salary just like that. 

Second of all, the value of a starting pitcher is so much higher than a middle reliever its not even close.  I am really just shocked.  The guy basically won us a WS title in 07

[Donoghus]

Dice K would be the one starter I would toy with moving just because of the contract is in its last year.  However, I'm not moving him for a middle reliever.  The position is too fickle. 

The old adage is "You can never have too much starting pitching".  I would entertain offers but don't just move a starter for the sake of moving one.  Especially not for a middle reliever. 

[nickagneta]

The problem with last years pitching staff was not the entire staff as much as it was the bullpen. Their starting pitching actually was pretty good, with the exception of Josh Beckett. Remove his stats from the rotation and the starters had a very respectable 3.67 ERA 4 out of every 5 games.

This years key will be getting Beckett back to being Beckett and finding the bullpen gap help to go from the 6th to the 8th innings. paps and Bard are fine in the late inning roles. Its everyone else that was terrible.

Also, remember that Crawford and Gonzalez are being brought in because the team figures they need to bolster the offense. I am pretty sure that management realizes how potent their offense was last year. They are being brought in because they are young and available to be gotten now and because the next couple of seasons the free agent and trading crop of available players isn't nearly the quality of player that Crawford and Gonzalez are. They are planning ahead.

[Vermont Green]

In terms of where to bat Crawford, he may have been a middle of the line-up guy on TB but on this team he is not.  His best spot would probably be #2 but I don't think he is better than Pedroia there.  His next best is #1 and for that spot he would "compete" with Ellsbury.  You definitely want Crawford getting the extra ABs over Ellsbury so I say let him lead off.  If he doesn't like it, Francona will just have figure out how to manage that (that is what managers get paid to do).  For what Crawford is getting paid, he needs to suck it up and play were it is best for the team, not best for him.

If it turns out that through the season, Ellsbury has a better OBP or is otherwise producing better, he can move up from 9 or whatever and Crawford drops down.  After the 1st inning, Crawford can pretend that Ellsbury is leading off and he is batting 2nd.  Really, what is the difference.  Just grab a bat and go hit when the manager tells you to go hit.

Crawford
Pedroia
Gonzalez
Youk
Ortiz
Catcher (I am guessing Martin when all is done)
Drew
Scutaro/Lowrie
Ellsbury

[Greenbean]

IMO, only power hitters and run producers deserve the big bucks.

Top of the order guys are not worth 20 million per year.

The Red Sox scoring ability suffered tremendously when they didn't have Ellsbury last season. Guys like Jacoby (and Crawford) can score so much easier, since you don't necessarily have to move them along after they get on base. It's one thing to need three singles to get someone from first to home, and it's completely different when he can score with 1 stolen base and a random double.

At least these are my impressions. I am not terribly baseball-savvy.

Baseball teams definitely need top of the order guys to get on base to set the table, but Crawford nor any other top of the order guys are worth 20 million per year.

It's just crazy!

Also, last year, Boston, as a team, was 2nd in all of the Majors in "Runs" scored, "Homeruns" and "RBIs" with a team ravaged with injuries to Ellsbury, Pedrioa and Youkalis.

Boston's pitching staff had the 9th worst team "ERA" in all of the Majors last year.

The only other teams with significantly worse team ERA's were the Pirates, Royals, D'Backs, Orioles and Brewers.

I would have offered 20 million per to Cliff Lee instead of Crawford.

Their offense finished 2nd but was wildly inconsistent last year.


Month (MLB rank in RS)

April (18th)
May (2nd)
June (2nd)
July (17th)
August (18th)
Sept (5th)

Meanwhile, their overall pitching ERA stayed the same or improved month by month (except for Sept)

 They completely stabilized their lineup with guys that you can count on for at least another 3 years. I wouldnt count on Beltre and VMart like I would Crawford and AGONE.

I like the fact that they are staying away from Lee.

They have two great young pitchers and two guys who I feel pretty good about having bounce back years. And Dice-K as a 5th starter.

Lee is far from the sure thing everyone thinks he is and he is older. Granted if we could have got Felix Hernandez or David Price instead, it is a no brainer.

The real issue with the pitching is the bullpen. nothing they have done has prevented them from going out and getting bullpen guys.

Edit: I cant stress enough how much our outfield defense will improve this year as well with Crawford. It will maek the pitching look alot better.