Rondo and MVP Watch

[mgent]

No because there are two other point guards who are even more important to their team's success. Then factor in the sheer star power besides Rondo in the starting line up and he's not a serious MVP contender.

He's the type of player you mention, but then don't put higher than 4th on your ballot even if you are a big booster of his game.

Two?  I'd say more like four.

  More important to the success of teams that are expected to have less success than the Celts though.

Too bad that doesn't mean much in the MVP discussion.

[BballTim]

No because there are two other point guards who are even more important to their team's success. Then factor in the sheer star power besides Rondo in the starting line up and he's not a serious MVP contender.

He's the type of player you mention, but then don't put higher than 4th on your ballot even if you are a big booster of his game.

Two?  I'd say more like four.

  More important to the success of teams that are expected to have less success than the Celts though.

Too bad that doesn't mean much in the MVP discussion.

  Yeah, because valuable players on 45-50 win teams that aren't expected to make much noise in the playoffs win the MVP almost every year...

[Fafnir]

No because there are two other point guards who are even more important to their team's success. Then factor in the sheer star power besides Rondo in the starting line up and he's not a serious MVP contender.

He's the type of player you mention, but then don't put higher than 4th on your ballot even if you are a big booster of his game.

Two?  I'd say more like four.

  More important to the success of teams that are expected to have less success than the Celts though.

Too bad that doesn't mean much in the MVP discussion.

Rose had his team barely above.500 I don't think he'll win the MVP even if they get a high seed in the east once Boozer is at full speed. Boozer will get too much credit.

I also don't consider Steve Nash a viable MVP contender anymore.

If a PG wins it will be Williams or Paul.

[mgent]

No because there are two other point guards who are even more important to their team's success. Then factor in the sheer star power besides Rondo in the starting line up and he's not a serious MVP contender.

He's the type of player you mention, but then don't put higher than 4th on your ballot even if you are a big booster of his game.

Two?  I'd say more like four.

  More important to the success of teams that are expected to have less success than the Celts though.

Too bad that doesn't mean much in the MVP discussion.

  Yeah, because valuable players on 45-50 win teams that aren't expected to make much noise in the playoffs win the MVP almost every year...

That's not what I meant.  I meant it doesn't matter how good the Celtics do because Rondo is surrounded by 4 HOFs.  As important as he to us, he doesn't even come close to carrying our team, and that matter more than who wins the championship.  Kobe has been the only MVP to make the finals in the past 7 years, and Duncan was the last guy to win both.

[xmuscularghandix]

LOL at Derrick Rose in the MVP race…

[Fafnir]

No because there are two other point guards who are even more important to their team's success. Then factor in the sheer star power besides Rondo in the starting line up and he's not a serious MVP contender.

He's the type of player you mention, but then don't put higher than 4th on your ballot even if you are a big booster of his game.

Two?  I'd say more like four.

  More important to the success of teams that are expected to have less success than the Celts though.

Too bad that doesn't mean much in the MVP discussion.

  Yeah, because valuable players on 45-50 win teams that aren't expected to make much noise in the playoffs win the MVP almost every year...

That's not what I meant.  I meant it doesn't matter how good the Celtics do because Rondo is surrounded by 4 HOFs.  As important as he to us, he doesn't even come close to carrying our team, and that matter more than who wins the championship.  Kobe has been the only MVP to make the finals in the past 7 years, and Duncan was the last guy to win both.

And Kobe got it that year as a "career achievment"....

[BballTim]

No because there are two other point guards who are even more important to their team's success. Then factor in the sheer star power besides Rondo in the starting line up and he's not a serious MVP contender.

He's the type of player you mention, but then don't put higher than 4th on your ballot even if you are a big booster of his game.

Two?  I'd say more like four.

  More important to the success of teams that are expected to have less success than the Celts though.

Too bad that doesn't mean much in the MVP discussion.

  Yeah, because valuable players on 45-50 win teams that aren't expected to make much noise in the playoffs win the MVP almost every year...

That's not what I meant.  I meant it doesn't matter how good the Celtics do because Rondo is surrounded by 4 HOFs.  As important as he to us, he doesn't even come close to carrying our team, and that matter more than who wins the championship.  Kobe has been the only MVP to make the finals in the past 7 years, and Duncan was the last guy to win both.

  Everyone seems to remember Rondo's surrounded by 4 HOF's, but people seem to have trouble remembering the "who are all on the downsides of their careers" part. And if you look at the history of the nba, are MVPs that don't get to the finals an anomaly or a typical occurrence?

[mgent]

No because there are two other point guards who are even more important to their team's success. Then factor in the sheer star power besides Rondo in the starting line up and he's not a serious MVP contender.

He's the type of player you mention, but then don't put higher than 4th on your ballot even if you are a big booster of his game.

Two?  I'd say more like four.

  More important to the success of teams that are expected to have less success than the Celts though.

Too bad that doesn't mean much in the MVP discussion.

Rose had his team barely above.500 I don't think he'll win the MVP even if they get a high seed in the east once Boozer is at full speed. Boozer will get too much credit.

I also don't consider Steve Nash a viable MVP contender anymore.

If a PG wins it will be Williams or Paul.

I don't think Paul, Williams, Rose, or Westbrook (not Nash) will win.  I just said they are all probably more important to their team's success than Rondo and carry a larger load.  That leads me to believe that unless their teams start playing horrible, they will all likely be in the discussion ahead of Rondo (according to the link 3 of them are in the top 5 while CP3 and Rondo are absent).

[mgent]

No because there are two other point guards who are even more important to their team's success. Then factor in the sheer star power besides Rondo in the starting line up and he's not a serious MVP contender.

He's the type of player you mention, but then don't put higher than 4th on your ballot even if you are a big booster of his game.

Two?  I'd say more like four.

  More important to the success of teams that are expected to have less success than the Celts though.

Too bad that doesn't mean much in the MVP discussion.

  Yeah, because valuable players on 45-50 win teams that aren't expected to make much noise in the playoffs win the MVP almost every year...

That's not what I meant.  I meant it doesn't matter how good the Celtics do because Rondo is surrounded by 4 HOFs.  As important as he to us, he doesn't even come close to carrying our team, and that matter more than who wins the championship.  Kobe has been the only MVP to make the finals in the past 7 years, and Duncan was the last guy to win both.

  Everyone seems to remember Rondo's surrounded by 4 HOF's, but people seem to have trouble remembering the "who are all on the downsides of their careers" part. And if you look at the history of the nba, are MVPs that don't get to the finals an anomaly or a typical occurrence?

Trust me, I know what you're saying.

I referenced recent MVP winners because I think that's what relevant.  Stats seem to mean a little more these days, and the four guys I mentioned are posting MVP-worthy stats.  Rondo is not.  If history means anything they will be in the running ahead of him.

Also I'm sure there's at least a decent amount of MVPs that didn't have much success in the playoffs the year they won it.  I don't think Lebron is one of a kind.

[BballTim]

No because there are two other point guards who are even more important to their team's success. Then factor in the sheer star power besides Rondo in the starting line up and he's not a serious MVP contender.

He's the type of player you mention, but then don't put higher than 4th on your ballot even if you are a big booster of his game.

Two?  I'd say more like four.

  More important to the success of teams that are expected to have less success than the Celts though.

Too bad that doesn't mean much in the MVP discussion.

Rose had his team barely above.500 I don't think he'll win the MVP even if they get a high seed in the east once Boozer is at full speed. Boozer will get too much credit.

I also don't consider Steve Nash a viable MVP contender anymore.

If a PG wins it will be Williams or Paul.

I don't think Paul, Williams, Rose, or Westbrook (not Nash) will win.  I just said they are all probably more important to their team's success than Rondo and carry a larger load.  That leads me to believe that unless their teams start playing horrible, they will all likely be in the discussion ahead of Rondo (according to the link 3 of them are in the top 5 while CP3 and Rondo are absent).

  MVP voting aside, it's worth pointing out that, if you consider points and assists, Rondo's generating as much offense as any of those players and is the best of the bunch on the defensive end.

[Bring Back Antoine]

This thread got me thinking about the future of the celtics once all of our HOFs are out of the picture. It will be very interesting to see how Rondo does when he is expected to score a much larger portion of our team's points. Now he passes up a lot of decent looks in favor of getting the rest of the guys even better shots, but it'll be cool to see what he can do with 20 or so shots a night.

[Fafnir]

This thread got me thinking about the future of the celtics once all of our HOFs are out of the picture. It will be very interesting to see how Rondo does when he is expected to score a much larger portion of our team's points. Now he passes up a lot of decent looks in favor of getting the rest of the guys even better shots, but it'll be cool to see what he can do with 20 or so shots a night.

We've seen it for brief stretches, when KG/Pierce were both out Rondo responded by scoring a good deal more slightly less efficiently.

[Bring Back Antoine]

This thread got me thinking about the future of the celtics once all of our HOFs are out of the picture. It will be very interesting to see how Rondo does when he is expected to score a much larger portion of our team's points. Now he passes up a lot of decent looks in favor of getting the rest of the guys even better shots, but it'll be cool to see what he can do with 20 or so shots a night.

We've seen it for brief stretches, when KG/Pierce were both out Rondo responded by scoring a good deal more slightly less efficiently.

True, maybe he'll become more efficient from the floor as he's asked to do that more regularly.

[PosImpos]

I'm surprised to see Noah ahead of KG on their list. Defense is more than rebounds....

Yeah.  Not everyone is heavy into "advanced stats", I get that, but you don't even have to look that deep to see the chasm-like difference on defense between KG and Noah so far this year. 

Bulls: 104.3 points/100 possessions (9th in NBA)
Bulls defense actually 8.4 points better/100 possessions without Noah through 20 games

Celtics: 99.7 points/100 possessions (1st in NBA)
Celtics defense a whopping 9.9 points worse/100 possessions without KG through 20 games

I'm actually a big Noah guy, but this isn't close.  At the quarter pole, DPoY should be a 2 horse race between KG and Dwight Howard.

Media is still too in love with flawed stats like rpg, spg, and bpg.  Really hard to win DPOY when you're not very near the top of the league in rebounds and getting a couple highlight blocks a game as well as a steal or two - even if the impact you make on your team's defense is enormous (as KG's is).

[CNYCeltsfan]

I love Rondo, I would not take another point guard over him for this team, seriously.  He is young and has alot of upside.

HOWEVER

I don't think he has reached MVP level yet and that is because his game, while elevating those around him, also depends on those around him alot more.  Until rondo increases his perimeter shot accuracy and his FT percentage he will not be able to be considered for MVP honors IMO