Seriously, did you know Shaq was going to be this good?

[indeedproceed]

FTR...I took about 20 mins and skimmed comments from everyone in the thread who said "Yes, I knew how good he would be". You see, I hate 'I told you so' threads, esp when the 'I told you so' was an out and out guess, or just a 'gut feeling'. I don't like that it kind of puts down all the 'nerds' that believed in 'proof' or 'logic' as non-believers or whatever.

Sooooooo anywho, I checked out everyone who said they knew Shaq would be 'this good' before the season. I was pleasantly surprised. While not everyone was onboard with the consistency and fit Shaq has had (some had reservations about conditioning etc...) only one person said blatantly that Shaq wouldn't work out.

IP - don't get what you are saying here.

Basically that the people who are saying "I always knew" actually did, and deserve credit for it. In my experience when people say I always believed or I always knew, they didn't. I find that extremely annoying.

[BballTim]

FTR...I took about 20 mins and skimmed comments from everyone in the thread who said "Yes, I knew how good he would be". You see, I hate 'I told you so' threads, esp when the 'I told you so' was an out and out guess, or just a 'gut feeling'. I don't like that it kind of puts down all the 'nerds' that believed in 'proof' or 'logic' as non-believers or whatever.

Sooooooo anywho, I checked out everyone who said they knew Shaq would be 'this good' before the season. I was pleasantly surprised. While not everyone was onboard with the consistency and fit Shaq has had (some had reservations about conditioning etc...) only one person said blatantly that Shaq wouldn't work out.

  I wasn't hugely pro-Shaq, but I thought most everybody expected our offense to run better with Shaq. The bigger question was whether our defensive drop would cancel that out. Until Perk is back and healthy we really can't answer that question. Clearly the defense is good with Shaq playing. But with Rondo playing like he was and KG and PP looking like they are, how much better would we look with a healthy KP? And how much worse would the offense look?

 I'm glad that Shaq's fitting in, but it's also true that with last year's version of Rondo, Shelden instead of Baby and KG dragging around his bad knee we started out 23-5 with Perk in the lineup. We could, conceivably, be playing better with a healthy Perk.

[Finkelskyhook]

Shaq went from playing with the narcissistic messiah to playing with teamates who are focused on winning championships.  Teammates who recognize what he has and take advantage of his talents.  The messiah was too busy taking fake pictures, celebrating dunks, and telling the media how great he is to concern himself with how Shaq could help him get to the next level.

This was very predictable.

They had Perk, who is limited offensively, averaging double-figures because they knew how and where to get him the ball.  The ghost of Shaq is an upgrade offensively.  As long as Rivers doesn't get tempted to play him more minutes than he is now, I think Shaq's productivity will improve as the season goes on.

[footey]

Truthfully, I did not expect nearly this much from Shaq. I thought he was toast. I bet if he lost 20 pounds, he could even dunk again and be down right nasty.

[StartOrien]

I'm surprised about how good he is, but I'm still a little concerned about his ability to make a difference against other true contenders w/ faster bigs like Los Angeles, Chicago and even Orlando - I'm aware of past success but it's still a little bit of concern. This is why I think Jermaine getting back is important, he really completes our ability to matchup against all looks.

Chicago? Noah is not an offensive threat and Boozer and Gibson play PF, which means KG and BBD are the ones who'll guard them. i think Shaq matches well with Noah because he overpowers him but Noah can't really punish Shaq despite having a speed advantage.

Orlando? would be interesting but i think Shaq's presence would really help us. The other 4 starters like feeding Shaq for easy buckets and Shaq's presence in the paint prevents Dwight from roaming around too much. Shaq gets to good spots at the right time. while i haven't watched a Magic game yet this year, i don't think Dwight can punish us in the post too much. i don't know. someone who's been watching would have a better idea concerning Dwight's offensive postgame.

Lakers? this is a match up to watch.

While Noah's offense is limited, I think you could see a lot of cases of Noah just beating him down the floor leading to easy baskets for him, or whoever the help defender is.

[oldmanspeaks]

I always thought Shaq got some bad press in Cleveland simply because they never have figured out how to use a "big man". For years I would surprised when they failed to pass the ball to a wide open Ilgaukas. That guy could really shoot the ball and could be a force. However like most big men, he and Shaq have to get passes to get them in position to score. I have played enough basketball over many decades to have seen big men look worse than they really were because of poor ball movement. As a fat, short old man who can barely hobble around the court, I can still shoot the ball pretty well when my shooting arm is free. (I had a big shooting night a few weeks ago and it certainly wasn't because I was blowing by people or jumping over them). With big men it is the same thing. If Shaq has a defender pinned, he is still a major force. He is also able to slide in behind a defender or pass the ball if people collapse on him. However he is really dependent upon his teammates at this stage of his career. Cleveland never seemed to understand basketball interior ball movement. Boston does.

[indeedproceed]

I'm surprised about how good he is, but I'm still a little concerned about his ability to make a difference against other true contenders w/ faster bigs like Los Angeles, Chicago and even Orlando - I'm aware of past success but it's still a little bit of concern. This is why I think Jermaine getting back is important, he really completes our ability to matchup against all looks.

Chicago? Noah is not an offensive threat and Boozer and Gibson play PF, which means KG and BBD are the ones who'll guard them. i think Shaq matches well with Noah because he overpowers him but Noah can't really punish Shaq despite having a speed advantage.

Orlando? would be interesting but i think Shaq's presence would really help us. The other 4 starters like feeding Shaq for easy buckets and Shaq's presence in the paint prevents Dwight from roaming around too much. Shaq gets to good spots at the right time. while i haven't watched a Magic game yet this year, i don't think Dwight can punish us in the post too much. i don't know. someone who's been watching would have a better idea concerning Dwight's offensive postgame.

Lakers? this is a match up to watch.

While Noah's offense is limited, I think you could see a lot of cases of Noah just beating him down the floor leading to easy baskets for him, or whoever the help defender is.

I was extremely....EXTREMELY impressed with Boston's bigs play against Noah recently. Maybe Chicago is just the trendy dark horse to pick, but they're my upset special in the playoffs against anyone but the Celtics. Joahkim Noah was the 2nd best center in the NBA walking into that matchup, and while by the numbers he played okay (14pts, 10 boards, 1 blk, 5-8 shooting), he needed 39 mins to do so. He didn't look like an All-Star by any means. I'm still surprsied by Shaq on a regular basis, because in that matchup I pick Noah everytime.

[Fafnir]

I'm surprised about how good he is, but I'm still a little concerned about his ability to make a difference against other true contenders w/ faster bigs like Los Angeles, Chicago and even Orlando - I'm aware of past success but it's still a little bit of concern. This is why I think Jermaine getting back is important, he really completes our ability to matchup against all looks.

Chicago? Noah is not an offensive threat and Boozer and Gibson play PF, which means KG and BBD are the ones who'll guard them. i think Shaq matches well with Noah because he overpowers him but Noah can't really punish Shaq despite having a speed advantage.

Orlando? would be interesting but i think Shaq's presence would really help us. The other 4 starters like feeding Shaq for easy buckets and Shaq's presence in the paint prevents Dwight from roaming around too much. Shaq gets to good spots at the right time. while i haven't watched a Magic game yet this year, i don't think Dwight can punish us in the post too much. i don't know. someone who's been watching would have a better idea concerning Dwight's offensive postgame.

Lakers? this is a match up to watch.

While Noah's offense is limited, I think you could see a lot of cases of Noah just beating him down the floor leading to easy baskets for him, or whoever the help defender is.

I was extremely....EXTREMELY impressed with Boston's bigs play against Noah recently. Maybe Chicago is just the trendy dark horse to pick, but they're my upset special in the playoffs against anyone but the Celtics. Joahkim Noah was the 2nd best center in the NBA walking into that matchup, and while by the numbers he played okay (14pts, 10 boards, 1 blk, 5-8 shooting), he needed 39 mins to do so. He didn't look like an All-Star by any means. I'm still surprsied by Shaq on a regular basis, because in that matchup I pick Noah everytime.

The same thing happened in the playoffs last year. Shaq has such an extreme size advantage on Noah, it makes it tough for him to be effective. I mean we all forget that Noah is actually undersized for a C and was thought of as a PF by a lot of teams.

[PosImpos]

I'm surprised about how good he is, but I'm still a little concerned about his ability to make a difference against other true contenders w/ faster bigs like Los Angeles, Chicago and even Orlando - I'm aware of past success but it's still a little bit of concern. This is why I think Jermaine getting back is important, he really completes our ability to matchup against all looks.

Chicago? Noah is not an offensive threat and Boozer and Gibson play PF, which means KG and BBD are the ones who'll guard them. i think Shaq matches well with Noah because he overpowers him but Noah can't really punish Shaq despite having a speed advantage.

Orlando? would be interesting but i think Shaq's presence would really help us. The other 4 starters like feeding Shaq for easy buckets and Shaq's presence in the paint prevents Dwight from roaming around too much. Shaq gets to good spots at the right time. while i haven't watched a Magic game yet this year, i don't think Dwight can punish us in the post too much. i don't know. someone who's been watching would have a better idea concerning Dwight's offensive postgame.

Lakers? this is a match up to watch.

While Noah's offense is limited, I think you could see a lot of cases of Noah just beating him down the floor leading to easy baskets for him, or whoever the help defender is.

I was extremely....EXTREMELY impressed with Boston's bigs play against Noah recently. Maybe Chicago is just the trendy dark horse to pick, but they're my upset special in the playoffs against anyone but the Celtics. Joahkim Noah was the 2nd best center in the NBA walking into that matchup, and while by the numbers he played okay (14pts, 10 boards, 1 blk, 5-8 shooting), he needed 39 mins to do so. He didn't look like an All-Star by any means. I'm still surprsied by Shaq on a regular basis, because in that matchup I pick Noah everytime.

The same thing happened in the playoffs last year. Shaq has such an extreme size advantage on Noah, it makes it tough for him to be effective. I mean we all forget that Noah is actually undersized for a C and was thought of as a PF by a lot of teams.

Yeah, Shaq is a really bad matchup for Noah; Dwight Howard is as well.  That's why I have a hard time really thinking very much of the Bulls as a contender in the East (that and their lack of outside shooting).

[celtics2]

I thought it was a joke at first. Figured the team for a good playoff team at best. Certainly not a contender. Even with the addition of the other O'Neal. Then as time progressed I saw the value of the trades. I believe Shaq is a happy player is because of Rondo. Rondo makes Shaq feel young again. It's obvious he is a proud individual and likes to score. The arousing sound at the Garden must be music to his ears. How could he not be with 4 All Star players along side. If playoffs were today we win it all with the best starting 5 in basketball. However, it's a long season. Enjoy the ride. There may never be another like it.

[Jon]

Yes.

I thought he'd be this good.  All you had to think about to understand that was how many wide open layups and 2-footers that Perk botched over the years.  To me it's not a surprise that Shaq is having phenomenal success with such looks.  He's arguably the most unstoppable force 5-feet and in from the basket in NBA history. 

Also, I don't think he's really that much better than last year, I just think that he's getting the best looks of his career.  He was expected to the #2 option in both Phoenix and Cleveland.  He's #5 here. 

[housecall]

Truthfully, I did not expect nearly this much from Shaq. I thought he was toast. I bet if he lost 20 pounds, he could even dunk again and be down right nasty.

Lets not get greedy but i agree...TP

[ballin]

yes yes yes. I actually thought he had been playing really well in Cleveland, they were just refusing to give him minutes!

I couldn't see any reason for an unexpected drop in productivity. so yeah, I expected him to play like this.

On the other hand, I called it from Day 1 that Jermaine O'Neal was going to be terrible. He just looked so washed up all last year. And for what it's worth, I called it with Rasheed as well (although he sorta/kinda proved me wrong by playing above himself in the playoffs).

/sorry for the gloating, but the thread called for it
//and for what it's worth, I'm more than willing to eat crow on my Glen Davis statements. if he continues to play the rest of the year like he's started off, well, color me shocked. oh well, can't win em all.

I would hold off on him being terrible since it's only December because like the post above sometimes your comments can come back to haunt you.  What were your comments on Glen Davis so I can put the JO comments in perspective?

I basically said Glen Davis had hit his ceiling. Up until this season, Davis was a 1) terrible rebounder for his position, and 2) couldn't finish around the rim (led the league in getting his shot blocked at 20% of all his shots, and had a terrible true shooting percentage). I couldn't see him all of a sudden becoming a better finisher, better shooter, and better rebounder out of nowhere, especially considering his lack of physical tools.

Somehow (miraculously?) I was wrong. Davis is doing ALL of those things better, AND leading the league in charges (which makes up for his lack of height on defense, which was another issue I had with him that I forgot to mention... he was a bad defender). I don't know how it happened, but he proved me wrong.

But I've been right plenty of other times, and as far as O'Neal is concerned, I'm sticking with my guns. He'll never amount to anything this season. He's washed up, and worse than Rasheed was, IMHO. We'll see though.

[FreeGreen]

Kudos to Doc for limiting Shaq to 20 minutes a night.

I think part of the key to his effectiveness is that he knows he only has to give 20 hard minutes.

I think this also will help limit his exposure to injury and keep him fresher as the season progresses.

[KG Living Legend]

 Dude. I was totally thinking the same thing 2nite.

 Dude. Shaq is the shiznet right now.

 Dude. KG and Shaq tohether it's hillarious to me Not even fair