Shaq vs. Perk

[thirstyboots18]

I don't remember how much time Perk and Delonte would have played together, but it has been a few years, he had only limited time with Nate, has he played with Shaq before? (it would be interesting to see them both in together, don't know if it would ever happen, though)Erden and Wafer.  Although he may not be on the floor at the same time with some of them, his game will have to be integrated with the others to know what matchups are appropriate against other teams.  What combos work and what don't.  If I am confusing this conversation more, I will bow out...because I think Doc will ultimately make the (correct) decision anyway.

[BballTim]

I don't remember how much time Perk and Delonte would have played together, but it has been a few years, he had only limited time with Nate, has he played with Shaq before? (it would be interesting to see them both in together, don't know if it would ever happen, though)Erden and Wafer.  Although he may not be on the floor at the same time with some of them, his game will have to be integrated with the others to know what matchups are appropriate against other teams.  What combos work and what don't.  If I am confusing this conversation more, I will bow out...because I think Doc will ultimately make the (correct) decision anyway.

  Forgot about Shaq, probably because I'm blotting the image of them playing together out of my head.  I'd say he'll use the regular season to get ready for the playoffs and I don't think he'll play with too many new people in the playoffs.

[thirstyboots18]

ha ha ha, BballTim,  You didn't like that image?  I think it would be a hoot...Perk's scowl, Shaq's grin...other team's offense wouldn't know what to do!  ha ha ha

[BballTim]

ha ha ha, BballTim,  You didn't like that image?  I think it would be a hoot...Perk's scowl, Shaq's grin...other team's offense wouldn't know what to do!  ha ha ha

  I was a little more worried about *our* offense with those two in the game...

[Brendan]

Outside of games against ORL and LAL (and maybe a few others with quick offensive centers) I like Shaq starting.

First Unit / Second Unit is hopefully nonsense. I don't think this team can or should play ten men. One of the bigs Shaq/Perk/JO/Baby is going to get the short stick if they are all healthy and get only reserve minutes. If JO was healthy all year, I'd guess it's Perk. But now I think the window has opened that JO will be the 5th big man. (I'm assuming no trade - if they could count on the health of the centers, then I'd try and trade one of them, but I don't think they can.)

We're probably looking at a rotation in important games where Pierce or Allen is on the floor all the time and Rondo is playing 40 minutes a game. I'm discounting West's ability to break into the rotation for now and assuming Nate will stay on, then we are going to see something like:

Shaq / Perk
KG / BBD
Pierce / Daniels
Allen / Nate
Rondo / Nate

What should dictate who starts is how it sets up the remaining rotations - either way I think the starting group will be very good.

For the bigs (assuming Shaq starts) I'm guess Shaq is the first sub out then Perk comes in. Perk stays in when BBD comes in for KG, then BBD stays in when KG comes back. Then BBD goes out and either Shaq or Perk would come back based on game situation. Start that over for the second half.

For the wings and guards it's a bit more freestyle, but you'll see something like:

Allen out / Nate or Daniels in
Rondo out / Nate or Daniels in
Pierce out / Allen in
Nate or Daniels out / Rondo in
Nate or Daniels out / Pierce in

When Rondo is out, we're more likely to see iso offense from Pierce or Nate as the primary offensive weapon, with the shooters as a second option and Daniels as a third option. I actually think this favors having Perkins in when Nate is in for Rondo, there will be less passes to the post and Perk is worse at those. There will likely be more jump shots, and I think Perk is a better rebounder. I also think the wing / guard defense drops off substantially especially in a Daniels/Allen/Nate setting - and I want Perk in there to pick up that slack up.

[BballTim]

  It's likely Delonte will also be back for the playoffs.

[thirstyboots18]

ha ha ha, BballTim,  You didn't like that image?  I think it would be a hoot...Perk's scowl, Shaq's grin...other team's offense wouldn't know what to do!  ha ha ha

  I was a little more worried about *our* offense with those two in the game...

Shaq is quite capable of getting offensive baskets (put backs, dunks....rondo's alley opps passes.  Perk is not really an offensive threat no matter who he plays with...he does get some, but it is his defense the team loves.

[BballTim]

ha ha ha, BballTim,  You didn't like that image?  I think it would be a hoot...Perk's scowl, Shaq's grin...other team's offense wouldn't know what to do!  ha ha ha

  I was a little more worried about *our* offense with those two in the game...

Shaq is quite capable of getting offensive baskets (put backs, dunks....rondo's alley opps passes.  Perk is not really an offensive threat no matter who he plays with...he does get some, but it is his defense the team loves.

  Shaq's going to have a lot less room to operate if he's playing with Perk than if he's playing with KG who's frequently pulling a big 15 feet from the basket.

[Brendan]

ha ha ha, BballTim,  You didn't like that image?  I think it would be a hoot...Perk's scowl, Shaq's grin...other team's offense wouldn't know what to do!  ha ha ha

  I was a little more worried about *our* offense with those two in the game...

Shaq is quite capable of getting offensive baskets (put backs, dunks....rondo's alley opps passes.  Perk is not really an offensive threat no matter who he plays with...he does get some, but it is his defense the team loves.

  Shaq's going to have a lot less room to operate if he's playing with Perk than if he's playing with KG who's frequently pulling a big 15 feet from the basket.

Yes BBD and KG have to split the PF minutes with Luke H and JO as the best bad options behind them. JO will shoot mid range jumpers he's just a worse shooter than BBD with less mobility on D. Luke H is not prime time ready.

As for West, I think he'll be back, if he's back full speed then I think he'll grab the fourth wing/guard spot in the rotation with Daniels and Nate sharing the fifth spot on a game by game basis. However I don't think the C's should assume he'll be back full speed, for all practical purposes he'll have missed a full season of games with the suspension and the injury. Which is too bad, because if he had been playing well I think a package of Nate, Daniels, and JO or Perk, might have been enough to get a combo forward.

[BballTim]

ha ha ha, BballTim,  You didn't like that image?  I think it would be a hoot...Perk's scowl, Shaq's grin...other team's offense wouldn't know what to do!  ha ha ha

  I was a little more worried about *our* offense with those two in the game...

Shaq is quite capable of getting offensive baskets (put backs, dunks....rondo's alley opps passes.  Perk is not really an offensive threat no matter who he plays with...he does get some, but it is his defense the team loves.

  Shaq's going to have a lot less room to operate if he's playing with Perk than if he's playing with KG who's frequently pulling a big 15 feet from the basket.

Yes BBD and KG have to split the PF minutes with Luke H and JO as the best bad options behind them. JO will shoot mid range jumpers he's just a worse shooter than BBD with less mobility on D. Luke H is not prime time ready.

As for West, I think he'll be back, if he's back full speed then I think he'll grab the fourth wing/guard spot in the rotation with Daniels and Nate sharing the fifth spot on a game by game basis. However I don't think the C's should assume he'll be back full speed, for all practical purposes he'll have missed a full season of games with the suspension and the injury. Which is too bad, because if he had been playing well I think a package of Nate, Daniels, and JO or Perk, might have been enough to get a combo forward.

  He seems to train like a demon and it's a wrist injury. I don't think physical conditioning will be much of an issue.

[Fafnir]

ha ha ha, BballTim,  You didn't like that image?  I think it would be a hoot...Perk's scowl, Shaq's grin...other team's offense wouldn't know what to do!  ha ha ha

  I was a little more worried about *our* offense with those two in the game...

Shaq is quite capable of getting offensive baskets (put backs, dunks....rondo's alley opps passes.  Perk is not really an offensive threat no matter who he plays with...he does get some, but it is his defense the team loves.

  Shaq's going to have a lot less room to operate if he's playing with Perk than if he's playing with KG who's frequently pulling a big 15 feet from the basket.

Shaq and Perkins aren't going to ever be on the floor together unless some sort of meteorite/fouls takes out all of our other bigs.

[thirstyboots18]

ha ha ha, BballTim,  You didn't like that image?  I think it would be a hoot...Perk's scowl, Shaq's grin...other team's offense wouldn't know what to do!  ha ha ha

  I was a little more worried about *our* offense with those two in the game...

Shaq is quite capable of getting offensive baskets (put backs, dunks....rondo's alley opps passes.  Perk is not really an offensive threat no matter who he plays with...he does get some, but it is his defense the team loves.

  Shaq's going to have a lot less room to operate if he's playing with Perk than if he's playing with KG who's frequently pulling a big 15 feet from the basket.

Yes BBD and KG have to split the PF minutes with Luke H and JO as the best bad options behind them. JO will shoot mid range jumpers he's just a worse shooter than BBD with less mobility on D. Luke H is not prime time ready.

As for West, I think he'll be back, if he's back full speed then I think he'll grab the fourth wing/guard spot in the rotation with Daniels and Nate sharing the fifth spot on a game by game basis. However I don't think the C's should assume he'll be back full speed, for all practical purposes he'll have missed a full season of games with the suspension and the injury. Which is too bad, because if he had been playing well I think a package of Nate, Daniels, and JO or Perk, might have been enough to get a combo forward.

  He seems to train like a demon and it's a wrist injury. I don't think physical conditioning will be much of an issue.

Again, I don't agree.  I think conditioning (lack of playing condition) had a lot to do with his back spasms.  Hope he can ease into it a bit more this time, but knowing how West goes all out, all the time, I worry about it...

[BballTim]

ha ha ha, BballTim,  You didn't like that image?  I think it would be a hoot...Perk's scowl, Shaq's grin...other team's offense wouldn't know what to do!  ha ha ha

  I was a little more worried about *our* offense with those two in the game...

Shaq is quite capable of getting offensive baskets (put backs, dunks....rondo's alley opps passes.  Perk is not really an offensive threat no matter who he plays with...he does get some, but it is his defense the team loves.

  Shaq's going to have a lot less room to operate if he's playing with Perk than if he's playing with KG who's frequently pulling a big 15 feet from the basket.

Yes BBD and KG have to split the PF minutes with Luke H and JO as the best bad options behind them. JO will shoot mid range jumpers he's just a worse shooter than BBD with less mobility on D. Luke H is not prime time ready.

As for West, I think he'll be back, if he's back full speed then I think he'll grab the fourth wing/guard spot in the rotation with Daniels and Nate sharing the fifth spot on a game by game basis. However I don't think the C's should assume he'll be back full speed, for all practical purposes he'll have missed a full season of games with the suspension and the injury. Which is too bad, because if he had been playing well I think a package of Nate, Daniels, and JO or Perk, might have been enough to get a combo forward.

  He seems to train like a demon and it's a wrist injury. I don't think physical conditioning will be much of an issue.

Again, I don't agree.  I think conditioning (lack of playing condition) had a lot to do with his back spasms.  Hope he can ease into it a bit more this time, but knowing how West goes all out, all the time, I worry about it...

  Maybe. All I heard about during his suspension was how hard he was working out and how he stayed as long as anyone else after practices were over. I thought he looked pretty ready when he first played after the suspension.

[CNYCeltsfan]

Its not like Perkins went down to an injury for a week and Shaq took his spot.  Perk is going to be out 3-4 months of the regular season.   well over half.  He will come back from a devastating injury so he wont be 100%.  I think we all expected Perk to win the job back, but lets be honest, Shaq is balling out there.  He is rejuvenated and has a better chemistry with the big 4 IMO.  Perk is a warrior and will be part of the Rondo led Celtics after big 3 and shaq are gone, but he needs to get haealthy and find a role for this year when he gets back.  Then next year as we are hanging banner 18 and Shaq has retired he can regain the starting 5 spot next year if there is no lockout.

[Who]

When Shaq joined the Celtics I had two main fears with the idea of using Shaq as a starter. They were (1) chemistry with Rondo (2) defensive vulnerability.

Shaq and Rondo

I've been amazed at how well Shaq and Rondo have played together.

I feared the worst after seeing how Shaq's ball-dominant lane clogging presence hurt Steve Nash's + LeBron James' performances ... but Shaq had done a wonderful job since joining Boston of taking a lesser role offensively and relying on others to create a larger portion of his shot attempts. He has flourished in that role and that has allowed Rondo to continue to emerge (more time on the ball).

Shaq was always going to have terrific chemistry with the Big Three because of how well they complemented one another's skill-set. Kevin Garnett especially so because of his defensive ability and jump shooting. But Rondo and Shaq ... that was a big question mark and Shaq has answered that wonderfully.

Shaq's Defensive Weaknesses

Still vulnerable in certain situations (anything away from the rim) but the starters provide him the most defensive cover and they've handled his flaws well during the games.

There might be the odd situation where I would move away from Shaq due to his defense but those situations are few and far between. Maybe the odd uptempo team, or PnR centric team (Chris Paul?) or a difficult one-on-one matchup (perimeter bigs? Dwight? Duncan?).

Overall

So yeah, given Shaq's strong play and impressive chemistry with the rest of the starters, I think Shaq should be the first choice starter at center.

I would consider rotating Perkins (or Jermaine) in as the starter depending on matchups though (for added defensive solidity). But that would be very rare ... and in terms of the playoffs, I think Orlando would be the only team in the that the C's might meet that I would consider that.