Sign me up for the Semih Sucks Bandwagon

[thirstyboots18]

I thought of another...we could have kept Scalabrini! (would have been ok with me...)

[guava_wrench]

As a point of comparison ...

Third String Centers

ATL - Jason Collins and Etan Thomas
BOS - Semih Erden
CHA - DeSagana Diop
CHI - Kurt Thomas
CLE - Leon Powe
DAL - Alexis Ajinca
DEN - Melvin Ely
DET - Chris Wilcox
GSW - Dan Gadzuric
HOU - Jordan Hill
IND - Solomon Jones
LAC - Jarron Collins
LAL - Derrick Caracter
MEM - Hamed Haddadi
MIA - Joel Anthony + Jamaal Magloire + Dexter Pittman
MIN - Kosta Koufos
MIL - Jon Brockman
NJN - Joe Smith
NOH - Aaron Gray
NYK - Eddy Curry
OKC - Cole Aldrich and Byron Mullens
ORL - Daniel Orton
PHI - Tony Battie
POR - Sean Marks
PHO - Earl Barron and Garret Siler
SAC - Hassan Whiteside or Darnell Jackson
SAN - Matt Bonner
TOR - Solomon Alabi
UTA - Kyrylo Fesenko
WAS - Hamed N'Diaye

-----------------------------------------------

At a glance ... I am thinking there about 10 guys on that list that I would rather have than Erden and about 10 more in the same tier as Erden.

A middle of the pack third string center.

Kudos on putting together the list.

Erden isn't among our top 10 players unless there is an injury. Does Bonner really belong on that list? Bonner is clearly high up in the SA rotation. Joel Anthony started for much of the season.

Are you maybe inserting PF/C guys ahead of people like Bonner, but not in from of Erden (where Erden would end up behind Shaq, JO, Perk and Baby).

Since Erden is really the 4th string center on our 15 man roster, he ends up looking a bit better.

[TradeProposalDude]

If Clifford Ray was kept aboard, maybe he would have helped Semih through this transitioning process better. Remember that Semih was the last pick in his draft class 2 years ago. Are the Celtics honing his development properly by throwing him into the fire on a championship caliber team?

I think Semih has tools. He seems to lack NBA footwork though. He has trouble finishing around the hoop. He travels a lot and is clumsy trying to convert on easy shots (though his bum shoulder may be a factor).Defensively, he is pretty shabby rebounding wise and positionally. He tends to lose his man a lot.

Experience may be one way to solve his problem. But he also needs to be guided properly. I don't know if Boston's bigs are paying enough attention (or care enough) to monitor his development. Further, the coaches we have on this team are not equipped with the experience or knowledge to help a big
become better.

Another alternate explanation is that he just sucks, and should not be on an NBA roster, let alone the Celtics. I'm not ready to give up on him just yet. But I don't like the way the Celtics are developing him. It's one thing to give PT to a big who may be young but earns it. But by failing to season him into a league that is drastically better than the one he was playing in before, he is prone to picking up bad habits, and therefore not learning how to play his position the right way.

[Meadowlark_Scal]

Some people may be missing the fact that center is the most difficult defensive spot to play. You have the responsibility of the paint...pretty much. When everyone else loses their man, they look to you. Also to cover your man. And by that time, the guy is usually flying in, which most often will result in a foul. The guy is playing against the best in the NBA, and along with the best in the NBA...but for the most part, he is a rookie. With a bad shoulder. You've watched him for 10 -12 games and you already think you know more than Celtics managment.....Give the guy some time to play. 12 games and you think YOUR judgement is better than Docs and Danny's. I'm surprised they didn't either sign you, or consult you.

[Megatron]

Some people may be missing the fact that center is the most difficult defensive spot to play. You have the responsibility of the paint...pretty much. When everyone else loses their man, they look to you. Also to cover your man. And by that time, the guy is usually flying in, which most often will result in a foul. The guy is playing against the best in the NBA, and along with the best in the NBA...but for the most part, he is a rookie. With a bad shoulder. You've watched him for 10 -12 games and you already think you know more than Celtics managment.....Give the guy some time to play. 12 games and you think YOUR judgement is better than Docs and Danny's. I'm surprised they didn't either sign you, or consult you.

Didnt say I knew more than anyone, just offering my opinion. He has plenty of time to prove me wrong and I hope he does. But as of now, my opinion is that he sucks.

[Fafnir]

You've watched him for 10 -12 games and you already think you know more than Celtics managment.....Give the guy some time to play. 12 games and you think YOUR judgement is better than Docs and Danny's. I'm surprised they didn't either sign you, or consult you.

Who exactly has proclaimed they know better than Danny or Doc?

Most of us just don't think he'll see the court or active roster if we have our full bench healthy.

[cajunceltic]

I know I am the Semih Erden of this great forum, but I just would like to know what is your definition of success for Semih at this stage of his career? I am in the "glass is half full camp" when it comes to Semih. My expectations of him right now is to give some quality spot minutes for our main bigs to get some rest during the game.He should at least try to keep the opposing defense somewhat honest when he is in the game and if not try to make them pay for their inatention which I think he has in spurts. Defensively, Be active and rebound. He has met just about all my expectations of him expect rebounding which he certainly needs to work on among other things of course. The majority of people on this topic seem to be positive to what they have seen of him so far however there are a few that see him unworthy of a roster spot. Again I am curious to know what are you realistically expecting from Semih, for him to be considered a success in his 1st year?

[guava_wrench]

If Clifford Ray was kept aboard, maybe he would have helped Semih through this transitioning process better. Remember that Semih was the last pick in his draft class 2 years ago. Are the Celtics honing his development properly by throwing him into the fire on a championship caliber team?

I think Semih has tools. He seems to lack NBA footwork though. He has trouble finishing around the hoop. He travels a lot and is clumsy trying to convert on easy shots (though his bum shoulder may be a factor).Defensively, he is pretty shabby rebounding wise and positionally. He tends to lose his man a lot.

Experience may be one way to solve his problem. But he also needs to be guided properly. I don't know if Boston's bigs are paying enough attention (or care enough) to monitor his development. Further, the coaches we have on this team are not equipped with the experience or knowledge to help a big
become better.

Another alternate explanation is that he just sucks, and should not be on an NBA roster, let alone the Celtics. I'm not ready to give up on him just yet. But I don't like the way the Celtics are developing him. It's one thing to give PT to a big who may be young but earns it. But by failing to season him into a league that is drastically better than the one he was playing in before, he is prone to picking up bad habits, and therefore not learning how to play his position the right way.

His footwork is really bad at this point. Part of that may be rushing his moves/panicking.

[snively]

As a point of comparison ...

Third String Centers

ATL - Jason Collins and Etan Thomas
BOS - Semih Erden
CHA - DeSagana Diop
CHI - Kurt Thomas
CLE - Leon Powe
DAL - Alexis Ajinca
DEN - Melvin Ely
DET - Chris Wilcox
GSW - Dan Gadzuric
HOU - Jordan Hill
IND - Solomon Jones
LAC - Jarron Collins
LAL - Derrick Caracter
MEM - Hamed Haddadi
MIA - Joel Anthony + Jamaal Magloire + Dexter Pittman
MIN - Kosta Koufos
MIL - Jon Brockman
NJN - Joe Smith
NOH - Aaron Gray
NYK - Eddy Curry
OKC - Cole Aldrich and Byron Mullens
ORL - Daniel Orton
PHI - Tony Battie
POR - Sean Marks
PHO - Earl Barron and Garret Siler
SAC - Hassan Whiteside or Darnell Jackson
SAN - Matt Bonner
TOR - Solomon Alabi
UTA - Kyrylo Fesenko
WAS - Hamed N'Diaye

-----------------------------------------------

At a glance ... I am thinking there about 10 guys on that list that I would rather have than Erden and about 10 more in the same tier as Erden.

A middle of the pack third string center.

Haven't seen a handful of those guys play (N'Diaye, Alabi, Koufos, Haddadi, Whiteside) but I think I'd rather have a significant majority of the rest over Erden.

Erden doesn't do any one thing well enough to be of use and he doesn't have the veteran smarts to avoid being taken advantage of.  Aaron Gray can grab boards, Gadzuric and Wilcox can get up and down the floor in a hurry, Solomon Jones and Barron can knock down mid-range Js, Marks can stay out of his teammates way, etc.

[ballin]

As a point of comparison ...

Third String Centers

ATL - Jason Collins and Etan Thomas
BOS - Semih Erden
CHA - DeSagana Diop
CHI - Kurt Thomas
CLE - Leon Powe
DAL - Alexis Ajinca
DEN - Melvin Ely
DET - Chris Wilcox
GSW - Dan Gadzuric
HOU - Jordan Hill
IND - Solomon Jones
LAC - Jarron Collins
LAL - Derrick Caracter
MEM - Hamed Haddadi
MIA - Joel Anthony + Jamaal Magloire + Dexter Pittman
MIN - Kosta Koufos
MIL - Jon Brockman
NJN - Joe Smith
NOH - Aaron Gray
NYK - Eddy Curry
OKC - Cole Aldrich and Byron Mullens
ORL - Daniel Orton
PHI - Tony Battie
POR - Sean Marks
PHO - Earl Barron and Garret Siler
SAC - Hassan Whiteside or Darnell Jackson
SAN - Matt Bonner
TOR - Solomon Alabi
UTA - Kyrylo Fesenko
WAS - Hamed N'Diaye

-----------------------------------------------

At a glance ... I am thinking there about 10 guys on that list that I would rather have than Erden and about 10 more in the same tier as Erden.

A middle of the pack third string center.

Haven't seen a handful of those guys play (N'Diaye, Alabi, Koufos, Haddadi, Whiteside) but I think I'd rather have a significant majority of the rest over Erden.

Erden doesn't do any one thing well enough to be of use and he doesn't have the veteran smarts to avoid being taken advantage of.  Aaron Gray can grab boards, Gadzuric and Wilcox can get up and down the floor in a hurry, Solomon Jones and Barron can knock down mid-range Js, Marks can stay out of his teammates way, etc.

I think the real point of comparison should be our previous 3rd/4th string centers (past 4 seasons)

-Shelden Williams
-Patrick O'Bryant
-Scot Pollard
-Michael Olowokandi

THAT is the true measuring mark for the last big man off the bench. And frankly, I'd take Semih over everybody except the much-maligned Shelden Williams.

O'Bryant might've been the worst player I've ever seen in a Celtics uniform. Pollard, a close second. Olowokandi defines the word bust, and by the time he was playing with us in his final season, he was producing negative win shares (which is the best advanced stat by far, in my opinion) and somehow managing to suck even more than before.

Semih's way better than those three already, and this is his FIRST SEASON! Considering he was drafted dead last, I don't think that relative to everybody's expectations you could make the argument that he sucks.

If anything, we're seeing more productive play out of him than we should have expected.

[Who]

As a point of comparison ...

Third String Centers

ATL - Jason Collins and Etan Thomas
BOS - Semih Erden
CHA - DeSagana Diop
CHI - Kurt Thomas

.........


At a glance ... I am thinking there about 10 guys on that list that I would rather have than Erden and about 10 more in the same tier as Erden.

A middle of the pack third string center.

Who else could we have gotten  as good, and at the same price, as semih...who would be content to sit on the bench all season unless injury got him time? 

Okay, based on availability and price, let's have another look at the list

As a point of comparison ...

Third String Centers

ATL - Jason Collins and Etan Thomas
BOS - Semih Erden
CHA - DeSagana Diop
CHI - Kurt Thomas
CLE - Leon Powe
DAL - Alexis Ajinca
DEN - Melvin Ely
DET - Chris Wilcox
GSW - Dan Gadzuric
HOU - Jordan Hill
IND - Solomon Jones
LAC - Jarron Collins
LAL - Derrick Caracter
MEM - Hamed Haddadi
MIA - Joel Anthony + Jamaal Magloire + Dexter Pittman
MIN - Kosta Koufos
MIL - Jon Brockman
NJN - Joe Smith
NOH - Aaron Gray
NYK - Eddy Curry
OKC - Cole Aldrich and Byron Mullens
ORL - Daniel Orton
PHI - Tony Battie
POR - Sean Marks
PHO - Earl Barron and Garret Siler
SAC - Hassan Whiteside or Darnell Jackson
SAN - Matt Bonner
TOR - Solomon Alabi
UTA - Kyrylo Fesenko
WAS - Hamed N'Diaye

Based on availability and price, Erden moves towards the top of the list. Likely top 5, definitely top 10.

Most of the 10 guys that I would rank clearly ahead of Erden were already on contracts -- bad contracts (Diop, Bonner) or rookie deals (J.Hill, C.Aldrich) -- and were thus unavailable (half the list).

[Who]

As a point of comparison ...

Third String Centers

ATL - Jason Collins and Etan Thomas
BOS - Semih Erden
CHA - DeSagana Diop
CHI - Kurt Thomas
CLE - Leon Powe
DAL - Alexis Ajinca
DEN - Melvin Ely
DET - Chris Wilcox
GSW - Dan Gadzuric
HOU - Jordan Hill
IND - Solomon Jones
LAC - Jarron Collins
LAL - Derrick Caracter
MEM - Hamed Haddadi
MIA - Joel Anthony + Jamaal Magloire + Dexter Pittman
MIN - Kosta Koufos
MIL - Jon Brockman
NJN - Joe Smith
NOH - Aaron Gray
NYK - Eddy Curry
OKC - Cole Aldrich and Byron Mullens
ORL - Daniel Orton
PHI - Tony Battie
POR - Sean Marks
PHO - Earl Barron and Garret Siler
SAC - Hassan Whiteside or Darnell Jackson
SAN - Matt Bonner
TOR - Solomon Alabi
UTA - Kyrylo Fesenko
WAS - Hamed N'Diaye

-----------------------------------------------

At a glance ... I am thinking there about 10 guys on that list that I would rather have than Erden and about 10 more in the same tier as Erden.

A middle of the pack third string center.

Kudos on putting together the list.

Erden isn't among our top 10 players unless there is an injury. Does Bonner really belong on that list? Bonner is clearly high up in the SA rotation. Joel Anthony started for much of the season.

Are you maybe inserting PF/C guys ahead of people like Bonner, but not in from of Erden (where Erden would end up behind Shaq, JO, Perk and Baby).

Since Erden is really the 4th string center on our 15 man roster, he ends up looking a bit better.

Yeah, I was in two minds whether to put in Bonner or not. I put him on the list because San Antonio has a small roster of only 13 players with only five big men. I consider McDyess (PF) and Splitter (C) their two main backup bigs with Bonner as the fifth big in the depth chart.

Similar with J.Anthony. With Dampier joining and with Big Z ahead of him in the rotation and likely to stay there for the immediate future, I consider J.Anthony a third string center. Also a fifth big in the depth chart.

---------------------------------------------------

Which brings another way to rank the players

Semih Erden is the sixth big man in the C's depth chart whereas several of the guys I would rank ahead of him off of that list are fifth bigs in the depth chart. Borderline rotation guys like Matt Bonner or Joel Anthony. So ..

If you knocked those guys off the list -- Jordan Hill, DeSagana Diop, Kurt Thomas, Joel Anthony, Cole Aldrich, Matt Bonner -- a little over half the guys who I'd rank clearly ahead of Erden are wiped off the list.

At that point, one has removed the guys who are head and shoulders, talent wise, above Erden off the list. Leaving a more comparable set of players as third stringer C + sixth big depth chart.

----------------------------------------------------

For those who are interested ... Those six guys would be replaced by Jared Jeffries or Patrick Patterson (J.Hill), Eddie Najera (Diop), Brian Scalabrine (K.Thomas), Magloire (J.Anthony), B.Mullens (C.Aldrich), and N/A (M.Bonner). 

[Meadowlark_Scal]

Some people may be missing the fact that center is the most difficult defensive spot to play. You have the responsibility of the paint...pretty much. When everyone else loses their man, they look to you. Also to cover your man. And by that time, the guy is usually flying in, which most often will result in a foul. The guy is playing against the best in the NBA, and along with the best in the NBA...but for the most part, he is a rookie. With a bad shoulder. You've watched him for 10 -12 games and you already think you know more than Celtics managment.....Give the guy some time to play. 12 games and you think YOUR judgement is better than Docs and Danny's. I'm surprised they didn't either sign you, or consult you.

Didnt say I knew more than anyone, just offering my opinion. He has plenty of time to prove me wrong and I hope he does. But as of now, my opinion is that he sucks.

i wasn't really talking to anyone in particular, and your opinion is just as good as mine. I wasn't calling out the poster either.

[thirstyboots18]

I know I am the Semih Erden of this great forum, but I just would like to know what is your definition of success for Semih at this stage of his career? I am in the "glass is half full camp" when it comes to Semih. My expectations of him right now is to give some quality spot minutes for our main bigs to get some rest during the game.He should at least try to keep the opposing defense somewhat honest when he is in the game and if not try to make them pay for their inatention which I think he has in spurts. Defensively, Be active and rebound. He has met just about all my expectations of him expect rebounding which he certainly needs to work on among other things of course. The majority of people on this topic seem to be positive to what they have seen of him so far however there are a few that see him unworthy of a roster spot. Again I am curious to know what are you realistically expecting from Semih, for him to be considered a success in his 1st year?

He has exceeded mine!  I though he would get very limited minutes this year, if that.  I am just glad he is willing to play injured, and hasn't lost games for us.  He is doing his job just by filling in while two of our top three centers are on injured list and our third is splitting time playing Power Forward and Center (Davis).  I am glad that he is showing some skills and not panicing.

[screwedupmaniac]

This guy is an abosulte waste of minutes. I havent seen someone pick up fouls at a rate that rivals Mikki Moore since...well, Mikki Moore.

Semih doesent jump, he has no offensive game to speak of, his defense is non existent, and he has less energy then the entire Celtics team in the 4th quarter last season.

This kid is 24? You would think he would make the most of his minutes in the NBA but he just looks like he doesent care, doesent want to play hard, and is slowly fitting the stereotype of the European basketball player.

Sorry, had to rant, im sure Luke would have done better at the 5.

Dude, don't be hatin' on Semih! The transition from Euroleague to NBA is not usually an easy one to make. The kid isn't KG, but nobody asked him to be. He's another 7 footer with 6 fouls and a couple of rebounds to offer, and that's all we really need out of him.