Jeffries may be bought out, would he make a nice 15th man?

[Chris]

I'd definitely take him as Marquis insurance.  He's going down eventually, we all know it.

I think Marquis' defense is slightly overrated.  He's excellent at getting deflections and is probably an above average defender, but a lot of people talk about him like he's almost Tony Allen (he's no where close).  He gets muscled around quite easily by a lot of SFs.  I'd really like us to get a more defensive guy with a little more size.

Agree on all counts.

Daniels will get injured this season, it is only a matter of time.

Daniels is a quality defender, but he is not a special defender like Allen was down the stretch last year (although I think he is comparable to Allen before last season, who was very inconsistent defensively, and similarly overrated).

But I also think there are better fits out there, who will not stiffle the offense as much.

[Fafnir]

I'd definitely take him as Marquis insurance.  He's going down eventually, we all know it.

I think Marquis' defense is slightly overrated.  He's excellent at getting deflections and is probably an above average defender, but a lot of people talk about him like he's almost Tony Allen (he's no where close).  He gets muscled around quite easily by a lot of SFs.  I'd really like us to get a more defensive guy with a little more size.

Agree on all counts.

Daniels will get injured this season, it is only a matter of time.

Daniels is a quality defender, but he is not a special defender like Allen was down the stretch last year (although I think he is comparable to Allen before last season, who was very inconsistent defensively, and similarly overrated).

But I also think there are better fits out there, who will not stiffle the offense as much.

Who do you have on your radar?

[indeedproceed]

I'd definitely take him as Marquis insurance.  He's going down eventually, we all know it.

I think Marquis' defense is slightly overrated.  He's excellent at getting deflections and is probably an above average defender, but a lot of people talk about him like he's almost Tony Allen (he's no where close).  He gets muscled around quite easily by a lot of SFs.  I'd really like us to get a more defensive guy with a little more size.

Agree on all counts.

Daniels will get injured this season, it is only a matter of time.

Daniels is a quality defender, but he is not a special defender like Allen was down the stretch last year (although I think he is comparable to Allen before last season, who was very inconsistent defensively, and similarly overrated).

But I also think there are better fits out there, who will not stiffle the offense as much.

Who do you have on your radar?

Paul Harris? Marcus Landry? Patrick Chewing Jr? Give Avery Bradley limb lengthening surgery?

[Chris]

I'd definitely take him as Marquis insurance.  He's going down eventually, we all know it.

I think Marquis' defense is slightly overrated.  He's excellent at getting deflections and is probably an above average defender, but a lot of people talk about him like he's almost Tony Allen (he's no where close).  He gets muscled around quite easily by a lot of SFs.  I'd really like us to get a more defensive guy with a little more size.

Agree on all counts.

Daniels will get injured this season, it is only a matter of time.

Daniels is a quality defender, but he is not a special defender like Allen was down the stretch last year (although I think he is comparable to Allen before last season, who was very inconsistent defensively, and similarly overrated).

But I also think there are better fits out there, who will not stiffle the offense as much.

Who do you have on your radar?

It's tough to say this early, but Pavlovic, Bobby Simmons, Ime Udoka, Jarvis Hayes, and perhaps even Larry Hughes are all better fits for what the C's do on the wing than Jeffries IMO.

I just think that floor spacing is so important to what the C's do, that a guy like Jeffries would be really tough to work into the system as a SF.  If they are looking at him as primarily a PF, then its different...but that doesn't seem to be the idea here.

[indeedproceed]

I'd definitely take him as Marquis insurance.  He's going down eventually, we all know it.

I think Marquis' defense is slightly overrated.  He's excellent at getting deflections and is probably an above average defender, but a lot of people talk about him like he's almost Tony Allen (he's no where close).  He gets muscled around quite easily by a lot of SFs.  I'd really like us to get a more defensive guy with a little more size.

Agree on all counts.

Daniels will get injured this season, it is only a matter of time.

Daniels is a quality defender, but he is not a special defender like Allen was down the stretch last year (although I think he is comparable to Allen before last season, who was very inconsistent defensively, and similarly overrated).

But I also think there are better fits out there, who will not stiffle the offense as much.

Who do you have on your radar?

It's tough to say this early, but Pavlovic, Bobby Simmons, Ime Udoka, Jarvis Hayes, and perhaps even Larry Hughes are all better fits for what the C's do on the wing than Jeffries IMO.

I just think that floor spacing is so important to what the C's do, that a guy like Jeffries would be really tough to work into the system as a SF.  If they are looking at him as primarily a PF, then its different...but that doesn't seem to be the idea here.

Bobby Simmons and Ime Udoka are both guys I'd LOVE to see in a Celtics uniform (Udoka is the guy I wanted in place of Posey. I was, of course, wrong, but I digress), but there must be something wrong with these guys. They were both on manageable contracts on the Spurs at a need position, and neither one could stick. Not to sound too obtuse, but if G-Pop and the Spurs pass on these vets, I think we ought to also.

[Chris]

I'd definitely take him as Marquis insurance.  He's going down eventually, we all know it.

I think Marquis' defense is slightly overrated.  He's excellent at getting deflections and is probably an above average defender, but a lot of people talk about him like he's almost Tony Allen (he's no where close).  He gets muscled around quite easily by a lot of SFs.  I'd really like us to get a more defensive guy with a little more size.

Agree on all counts.

Daniels will get injured this season, it is only a matter of time.

Daniels is a quality defender, but he is not a special defender like Allen was down the stretch last year (although I think he is comparable to Allen before last season, who was very inconsistent defensively, and similarly overrated).

But I also think there are better fits out there, who will not stiffle the offense as much.

Who do you have on your radar?

It's tough to say this early, but Pavlovic, Bobby Simmons, Ime Udoka, Jarvis Hayes, and perhaps even Larry Hughes are all better fits for what the C's do on the wing than Jeffries IMO.

I just think that floor spacing is so important to what the C's do, that a guy like Jeffries would be really tough to work into the system as a SF.  If they are looking at him as primarily a PF, then its different...but that doesn't seem to be the idea here.

Bobby Simmons and Ime Udoka are both guys I'd LOVE to see in a Celtics uniform (Udoka is the guy I wanted in place of Posey. I was, of course, wrong, but I digress), but there must be something wrong with these guys. They were both on manageable contracts on the Spurs at a need position, and neither one could stick. Not to sound too obtuse, but if G-Pop and the Spurs pass on these vets, I think we ought to also.

Ultimately, you are probably right...and I would prefer to wait it out for some more buyouts, or possibly small trades for higher quality players.  But, since this is about Jeffries, I think we have to ask the same question.  He is having trouble finding the court in Houston, and may be paid a lot of money to walk away.  So, its not like he is an All-Star.

I would argue that if Jeffries was not on the contract he was on, he might already be a free agent, just like those guys are.  He is just not that good a basketball player.

[indeedproceed]

I'd definitely take him as Marquis insurance.  He's going down eventually, we all know it.

I think Marquis' defense is slightly overrated.  He's excellent at getting deflections and is probably an above average defender, but a lot of people talk about him like he's almost Tony Allen (he's no where close).  He gets muscled around quite easily by a lot of SFs.  I'd really like us to get a more defensive guy with a little more size.

Agree on all counts.

Daniels will get injured this season, it is only a matter of time.

Daniels is a quality defender, but he is not a special defender like Allen was down the stretch last year (although I think he is comparable to Allen before last season, who was very inconsistent defensively, and similarly overrated).

But I also think there are better fits out there, who will not stiffle the offense as much.

Who do you have on your radar?

It's tough to say this early, but Pavlovic, Bobby Simmons, Ime Udoka, Jarvis Hayes, and perhaps even Larry Hughes are all better fits for what the C's do on the wing than Jeffries IMO.

I just think that floor spacing is so important to what the C's do, that a guy like Jeffries would be really tough to work into the system as a SF.  If they are looking at him as primarily a PF, then its different...but that doesn't seem to be the idea here.

Bobby Simmons and Ime Udoka are both guys I'd LOVE to see in a Celtics uniform (Udoka is the guy I wanted in place of Posey. I was, of course, wrong, but I digress), but there must be something wrong with these guys. They were both on manageable contracts on the Spurs at a need position, and neither one could stick. Not to sound too obtuse, but if G-Pop and the Spurs pass on these vets, I think we ought to also.

Ultimately, you are probably right...and I would prefer to wait it out for some more buyouts, or possibly small trades for higher quality players.  But, since this is about Jeffries, I think we have to ask the same question.  He is having trouble finding the court in Houston, and may be paid a lot of money to walk away.  So, its not like he is an All-Star.

I would argue that if Jeffries was not on the contract he was on, he might already be a free agent, just like those guys are.  He is just not that good a basketball player.

Yeah its possible. He wouldn't be the first hype creation I've bought into unjustly. Here is what Hollinger says about him:

+ Long-armed, multi-position defender who excels at taking charges.

+ Weak in every facet offensively, with special penchant for missing layups.

+ Surprisingly poor rebounder considering height and length.

The best Jeffries highlight was the Knicks' near-comic efforts to talk him up in the vain hope of getting something of value for him at the trade deadline. Jeffries is a helpful team defender who gets a lot of deflections and takes a ton of charges, but he's as void of offensive value as any player in the league -- he finished 62nd out of 63 power forwards in usage rate and 49th in TS%.

But oh, can he take charges. Jeffries led the NBA by drawing 62 charges last season; on a per-minute basis, he rated second only to Oklahoma City's Nick Collison. As a result, he's a useful situational defensive player. Of course, at $6.8 million, he costs about ten times as much as most players who fill that role.

[Chris]

Hollinger seemed to sum it up pretty well there.  And I agree that he could be a useful defensive player.  However, the C's need someone who is not a negative offensively.  This team is too good to put guys on the floor who are not at least passable on both sides.  Anything Jeffries could give them defensively, he would give back on the other end (and then some). 

[More Banners]

However, the C's need someone who is not a negative offensively. 

This team is too good to put guys on the floor who are not at least passable on both sides. 

Anything Jeffries could give them defensively, he would give back on the other end (and then some). 

The same could be said for Perk and TA...and yet they each have/had their cheerleaders here on the blog...

The ticket with role players is that they have to fit with the rest of the lineup.  Does the 2nd unit have enough offensive firepower to allow a role player with no O to fit in?

[Jon Niednagel]

However, the C's need someone who is not a negative offensively. 

This team is too good to put guys on the floor who are not at least passable on both sides. 

Anything Jeffries could give them defensively, he would give back on the other end (and then some). 

The same could be said for Perk and TA...and yet they each have/had their cheerleaders here on the blog...

The ticket with role players is that they have to fit with the rest of the lineup.  Does the 2nd unit have enough offensive firepower to allow a role player with no O to fit in?

Maybe when DW returns, but I haven't seen enough yet to say the second unit could hold their own offensively with or without JJ. JJ, IMO, is only good for situational defensive purposes. The defense has not really been a problem yet, so I think there are other pressing needs above and beyond what he brings.

[Chris]

However, the C's need someone who is not a negative offensively. 

This team is too good to put guys on the floor who are not at least passable on both sides. 

Anything Jeffries could give them defensively, he would give back on the other end (and then some). 

The same could be said for Perk and TA...and yet they each have/had their cheerleaders here on the blog...

The ticket with role players is that they have to fit with the rest of the lineup.  Does the 2nd unit have enough offensive firepower to allow a role player with no O to fit in?

Perk plays Center, which allows him to get away with it without messing up the spacing nearly as much.  He also is a more rare defender than Jeffries (meaning, it is much harder to find a center who can defend that well, as it is to find a perimeter guy who defends as well as Jeffries).  Like I said before, if Jeffries is a PF, then it is a different story.  You can hide a PF much easier than a SF.  But in the C's offense, the SF needs to provide spacing that Jeffries can't provide.

And Tony Allen is 10 times times the offensive player that Jeffries is.  Tony can get to the hoop, is a decent ballhandler (for a wing, not for a PG), and most importantly is a significantly better defender than Jeffries (at least last years Tony Allen was).

And the thing is, Tony did clog up the offense.  That is why Doc tried so hard to get someone else in there in place of him.  But, Tony's defense (last year) was able to overcome his offensive deficiencies.  

I think part of the issue here is also that Jeffries is not THAT good a defender.  If he were Ron Artest or Bruce Bowen, this would be a different conversation (he also would be playing regular minutes in Houston, and not being bought out).  But he isn't.  He is an above average defender, and that's about it.  

[ssspence]

I'd definitely take him as Marquis insurance.  He's going down eventually, we all know it.

I think Marquis' defense is slightly overrated.  He's excellent at getting deflections and is probably an above average defender, but a lot of people talk about him like he's almost Tony Allen (he's no where close).  He gets muscled around quite easily by a lot of SFs.  I'd really like us to get a more defensive guy with a little more size.

Agree on all counts.

Daniels will get injured this season, it is only a matter of time.

Daniels is a quality defender, but he is not a special defender like Allen was down the stretch last year (although I think he is comparable to Allen before last season, who was very inconsistent defensively, and similarly overrated).

But I also think there are better fits out there, who will not stiffle the offense as much.

Who do you have on your radar?

Paul Harris? Marcus Landry? Patrick Chewing Jr? Give Avery Bradley limb lengthening surgery?

The guys I'd like to see them procure: Corey Brewer. Unfortunately it's virtually impossible to make the salaries work with anyone we'd give up.

[Surferdad]

No

[Bankshot]

I'd definitely take him as Marquis insurance.  He's going down eventually, we all know it.

I think Marquis' defense is slightly overrated.  He's excellent at getting deflections and is probably an above average defender, but a lot of people talk about him like he's almost Tony Allen (he's no where close).  He gets muscled around quite easily by a lot of SFs.  I'd really like us to get a more defensive guy with a little more size.

Agree on all counts.

Daniels will get injured this season, it is only a matter of time.

Daniels is a quality defender, but he is not a special defender like Allen was down the stretch last year (although I think he is comparable to Allen before last season, who was very inconsistent defensively, and similarly overrated).

But I also think there are better fits out there, who will not stiffle the offense as much.

Who do you have on your radar?

Paul Harris? Marcus Landry? Patrick Chewing Jr? Give Avery Bradley limb lengthening surgery?

The guys I'd like to see them procure: Corey Brewer. Unfortunately it's virtually impossible to make the salaries work with anyone we'd give up.

I would love to have Corey Brewer.  I'd give up Bradley for him.  He's still young, but he's been in the league a few years so you can trust him on the court.

[ssspence]

I'd definitely take him as Marquis insurance.  He's going down eventually, we all know it.

I think Marquis' defense is slightly overrated.  He's excellent at getting deflections and is probably an above average defender, but a lot of people talk about him like he's almost Tony Allen (he's no where close).  He gets muscled around quite easily by a lot of SFs.  I'd really like us to get a more defensive guy with a little more size.

Agree on all counts.

Daniels will get injured this season, it is only a matter of time.

Daniels is a quality defender, but he is not a special defender like Allen was down the stretch last year (although I think he is comparable to Allen before last season, who was very inconsistent defensively, and similarly overrated).

But I also think there are better fits out there, who will not stiffle the offense as much.

Who do you have on your radar?

Paul Harris? Marcus Landry? Patrick Chewing Jr? Give Avery Bradley limb lengthening surgery?

The guys I'd like to see them procure: Corey Brewer. Unfortunately it's virtually impossible to make the salaries work with anyone we'd give up.

I would love to have Corey Brewer.  I'd give up Bradley for him.  He's still young, but he's been in the league a few years so you can trust him on the court.

There's essentially no deal that works for him. Which sucks.