Glen Davis and the art of the charge

[wahz]

Charges should be credited like steals are.

While Baby is great at getting charges, he has also become a shameless flopper. Even the slightest contact and he hits the floor. The refs ignore his flops sometimes, but he is one of the most egregious floppers in the league at the moment.

I'll take it though. He does get into great position.

Charges are kept track of. Davis has 3 on the year, which puts him in a 5-way tie for 3rd among PF's for charges taken per game.

EDIT: Sorry, didn't tell you where!

http://www.hoopdata.com/defrebstats.aspx?team=%25&type=pg&posi=PF&yr=2011&gp=0&mins=0

  They keep track of charges but I think the numbers are way off.

Numbers must be way off. A couple games ago Gorman was talking about how davis had like 10 on the season. He's definitely has a few games where he has drawn multiple charges.

yep that site and its stats are the best example of what ive said here for years: who is watching these games? A lot frequent posters say things that quite clearly show they aren't watching the games. Its gone on for years. In any case,life on the line  I would say Ive seen at least 7 of Baby's charges and I didn't see the Cleveland game, and missed the first half of Milwaukee. Hopefully somewhere a correct tally is happening

[Fafnir]

Charges should be credited like steals are.

While Baby is great at getting charges, he has also become a shameless flopper. Even the slightest contact and he hits the floor. The refs ignore his flops sometimes, but he is one of the most egregious floppers in the league at the moment.

I'll take it though. He does get into great position.

Charges are kept track of. Davis has 3 on the year, which puts him in a 5-way tie for 3rd among PF's for charges taken per game.

EDIT: Sorry, didn't tell you where!

http://www.hoopdata.com/defrebstats.aspx?team=%25&type=pg&posi=PF&yr=2011&gp=0&mins=0

  They keep track of charges but I think the numbers are way off.

Numbers must be way off. A couple games ago Gorman was talking about how davis had like 10 on the season. He's definitely has a few games where he has drawn multiple charges.

yep that site and its stats are the best example of what ive said here for years: who is watching these games? A lot frequent posters say things that quite clearly show they aren't watching the games. Its gone on for years.

Who exactly are you calling out here? I'm dubious that when people disagree that it necessarily means that one of them doesn't watch the games.

[BballTim]

Charges should be credited like steals are.

While Baby is great at getting charges, he has also become a shameless flopper. Even the slightest contact and he hits the floor. The refs ignore his flops sometimes, but he is one of the most egregious floppers in the league at the moment.

I'll take it though. He does get into great position.

Charges are kept track of. Davis has 3 on the year, which puts him in a 5-way tie for 3rd among PF's for charges taken per game.

EDIT: Sorry, didn't tell you where!

http://www.hoopdata.com/defrebstats.aspx?team=%25&type=pg&posi=PF&yr=2011&gp=0&mins=0

  They keep track of charges but I think the numbers are way off.

Numbers must be way off. A couple games ago Gorman was talking about how davis had like 10 on the season. He's definitely has a few games where he has drawn multiple charges.

yep that site and its stats are the best example of what ive said here for years: who is watching these games? A lot frequent posters say things that quite clearly show they aren't watching the games. Its gone on for years. In any case,life on the line  I would say Ive seen at least 7 of Baby's charges and I didn't see the Cleveland game, and missed the first half of Milwaukee. Hopefully somewhere a correct tally is happening

  To be fair, it's just as often the case where people who watch games make claims that stats show to be completely wrong.

[cornbreadsmart]

Seeing Big Baby move his feet reminds me of Fred Flintstone's twinkle-toes style of bowling.

[Birdbrain]

Charges should be credited like steals are.

While Baby is great at getting charges, he has also become a shameless flopper. Even the slightest contact and he hits the floor. The refs ignore his flops sometimes, but he is one of the most egregious floppers in the league at the moment.

I'll take it though. He does get into great position.

Charges are kept track of. Davis has 3 on the year, which puts him in a 5-way tie for 3rd among PF's for charges taken per game.

EDIT: Sorry, didn't tell you where!

http://www.hoopdata.com/defrebstats.aspx?team=%25&type=pg&posi=PF&yr=2011&gp=0&mins=0

  They keep track of charges but I think the numbers are way off.

Numbers must be way off. A couple games ago Gorman was talking about how davis had like 10 on the season. He's definitely has a few games where he has drawn multiple charges.

yep that site and its stats are the best example of what ive said here for years: who is watching these games? A lot frequent posters say things that quite clearly show they aren't watching the games. Its gone on for years. In any case,life on the line  I would say Ive seen at least 7 of Baby's charges and I didn't see the Cleveland game, and missed the first half of Milwaukee. Hopefully somewhere a correct tally is happening

  To be fair, it's just as often the case where people who watch games make claims that stats show to be completely wrong.

Very true.  A lot of times people only 'remember' what they want to believe.

[Birdbrain]

Seeing Big Baby move his feet reminds me of Fred Flintstone's twinkle-toes style of bowling.

Very funny and apt as well.  He's got the grace of ballet dancer and with the strength of a bull.  lol

I'm going to get the correct number of charges and update it as the season goes on.  He's already near 15 or so on the season.  Then as the season goes on people can comment on which ones were valid and which weren't.

[indeedproceed]

Seeing Big Baby move his feet reminds me of Fred Flintstone's twinkle-toes style of bowling.

Very funny and apt as well.  He's got the grace of ballet dancer and with the strength of a bull.  lol

I'm going to get the correct number of charges and update it as the season goes on.  He's already near 15 or so on the season.  Then as the season goes on people can comment on which ones were valid and which weren't.

That's one thing that doesn't make any sense to me..how can a charge not be "valid"? You can't just have a charge called abstractly..it has to be drawn by someone, by the definition of the call, right?

So why doesn't the league track them? It would be like if the league tracked turnovers but not steals.

[Spilling Green Dye]

Drawing charges is definitely more valuable than a block IMO, but a steal is debatable.  Most blockers in today's NBA (Dwight Howard, etc) just block the ball out of bounds, which isn't particularly useful.  A steal on the other hand often times leads to a fast break.

Davis' ability to draw charges is far and away his best defensive attribute.  I think the coaches probably felt that he was often times a liability on defense, so instead of just improving overall defensively, they also asked him to get this niche ability to very good/useful levels.  He's also big enough to repeatedly take the hits, quick enough on his feet that he can get there in time, and hefty enough to absorb the fall.  He really has gotten this down to near perfection, and its fun to watch.

[makaveli]

Big Baby is such an asset, and I can't believe that people on this blog used to downgrade his impact on our team, even now they do. He is a talented player, that is still to reach his prime and full potential, you gotta love his energy, will and competitivnes on both sides of the floor.
I want a list of people that wanted/want to trade Big Baby 

[Greenbean]

The way these foul stats are kept is offensive

[BballTim]

Seeing Big Baby move his feet reminds me of Fred Flintstone's twinkle-toes style of bowling.

Very funny and apt as well.  He's got the grace of ballet dancer and with the strength of a bull.  lol

I'm going to get the correct number of charges and update it as the season goes on.  He's already near 15 or so on the season.  Then as the season goes on people can comment on which ones were valid and which weren't.

That's one thing that doesn't make any sense to me..how can a charge not be "valid"? You can't just have a charge called abstractly..it has to be drawn by someone, by the definition of the call, right?

So why doesn't the league track them? It would be like if the league tracked turnovers but not steals.

  The league tracks turnovers, but they don't track charges vs illegal screen vs over the back vs travels vs 24 second and so on.

  Possibly unrelated, but how do they measure steals? If Rondo takes the ball from LeBron, steal. If Rondo tips the ball from LeBron and Ray grabs it, steal. If Rondo knocks the ball off of LeBron's leg and it goes out of bounds, no steal? This is similar to the charge situation, where a player forces a turnover without getting credit for it.

[kozlodoev]

The CHG stat looks more like offensive rather than defensive charges (yes, I know that it's on the "defense and rebounding" page). Either that, or the numbers are way off, as someone already pointed out.

[BballTim]

The CHG stat looks more like offensive rather than defensive charges (yes, I know that it's on the "defense and rebounding" page). Either that, or the numbers are way off, as someone already pointed out.

  Haha. Ignore 2 pages of posts on the subject if this is true.

[incoherent]

Big Baby is the "perfect storm" for someone to take charges in the NBA.  Here's why in my opinion:

He is short.  Everyone in the NBA can out jump him so he will see endless amounts of people running at him and jumping to score.  Far more then the usual player.

He is fat.  Davis can take a charge on one play and be bodily ready to take another on the very next, night after night after night.  This would wear down most players.

Combine those seemingly static attributes to being a hungry role player who's light on his feet.... and you get the perfect charge taking machine.

[LooseCannon]

Drawing charges is definitely more valuable than a block IMO, but a steal is debatable.  Most blockers in today's NBA (Dwight Howard, etc) just block the ball out of bounds, which isn't particularly useful.  A steal on the other hand often times leads to a fast break.

Of course, a block out of bounds is useful.  It may not be as useful as tapping the ball to a team mate, but it puts your opponents in a situation where they have to in-bound the ball with less than a full shot clock.  And, of course, a block means there no chance of the ball going in the hoop, so it's better than not blocking the shot.