Glen Davis and the art of the charge

[Fafnir]

If you're unable to contest a shot attempting to take a charge is valuable defensive technique.

You have to use good judgment though, if you're late you're just getting more team fouls, collecting a personal foul, and sending the opponent to the line. Very similar to attempting to block a shot rather than just contesting the shot.

[EJPLAYA]

He does a very good job within the parameters of what they consider a charge. His quick feet help that. Unfortunately I think the definition of a charge these days is nonsense. One of those charges last night, I believe the Westbrook one, the offensive player had already left the floor. Davis slid under him causing the contact and it was called. Great for us, and definitely what they are calling these days, but I don't like it at all. It used to be that you had to have established position for a full second prior to the contact. It also used to be that you couldn't be sliding into position once the offensive player can't change his direction. Many of the calls Davis draws are legitimate offensive fouls. I just wish they wouldn't reward the others for anyone out there. If they are though, I'm sure glad we have BBD out there because he takes a lot of them.

[Fafnir]

If we are going to talk about the effort, it is hard to figure out the possible outcomes. If Baby tried for a block instead, what are the chances we end up giving the other team a 3 point play?

Going for a block or a charge carries some risk of the 3 point play, or just turing a wild off balance shot into FTAs. Its all based on who you're attempting to prevent from scoring, and what a player is capable of.

BBD isn't long or athletic enough to contest/block a lot of shots. He absolutely should be moving into position to take a charge, either get the offensive foul or force a pull up jumper.

[Fafnir]

He does a very good job within the parameters of what they consider a charge. His quick feet help that. Unfortunately I think the definition of a charge these days is nonsense. One of those charges last night, I believe the Westbrook one, the offensive player had already left the floor. Davis slid under him causing the contact and it was called. Great for us, and definitely what they are calling these days, but I don't like it at all.

I hate sliding underneath airborne players, should still be a block.

But considering how often they let offensive players just bulldoze people with their shoulder/forearm I don't get too upset about it.

[guava_wrench]

Charges should be credited like steals are.

I don't know about that. Offensive fouls sometimes are drawn through skills. But should a shot blocking big man get credit like a steal when a guard uses his off arm to push him away to avoid a shot block?

Yes, because he is playing good position defense to cause a turnover.

Anyway, I did not say it should a steal. I meant it needs the kind of recognition that steals get.

[guava_wrench]

Charges should be credited like steals are.

While Baby is great at getting charges, he has also become a shameless flopper. Even the slightest contact and he hits the floor. The refs ignore his flops sometimes, but he is one of the most egregious floppers in the league at the moment.

I'll take it though. He does get into great position.

Charges are kept track of. Davis has 3 on the year, which puts him in a 5-way tie for 3rd among PF's for charges taken per game.

EDIT: Sorry, didn't tell you where!

http://www.hoopdata.com/defrebstats.aspx?team=%25&type=pg&posi=PF&yr=2011&gp=0&mins=0

Have you been watching games? He has way more than 3.

[xmuscularghandix]

Glen Davis has like 12 charges so far on the year. Hell he had 2 in the fourth quarter of the Miami Heat game.

I found this, which looks like a charge:

8:56       61-66    Official timeout
8:42   Dwyane Wade foul (Glen Davis draws the foul)   61-66   
8:42   Dwyane Wade turnover   61-66   

but in the 4th quarter, they list 3 other 'offensive fouls' (charges) with the players that drew them.

The miami game though was my birthday, so mostly i remember the beerpong and ridiculous things people said I did. I might have watch 5 mins total of that game unfortunately.

The Lebron charge was in the 1st quarter, my bad.

But my point was that the someone said he had three on the year, when he had two in the opener alone.

[xmuscularghandix]

Charges should be credited like steals are.

While Baby is great at getting charges, he has also become a shameless flopper. Even the slightest contact and he hits the floor. The refs ignore his flops sometimes, but he is one of the most egregious floppers in the league at the moment.

I'll take it though. He does get into great position.

Charges are kept track of. Davis has 3 on the year, which puts him in a 5-way tie for 3rd among PF's for charges taken per game.

EDIT: Sorry, didn't tell you where!

http://www.hoopdata.com/defrebstats.aspx?team=%25&type=pg&posi=PF&yr=2011&gp=0&mins=0

Have you been watching games? He has way more than 3.

I have highlights on my computer, and i’m gonna make a video of all his charges. (at least as many as i can)

[BballTim]

Charges should be credited like steals are.

While Baby is great at getting charges, he has also become a shameless flopper. Even the slightest contact and he hits the floor. The refs ignore his flops sometimes, but he is one of the most egregious floppers in the league at the moment.

I'll take it though. He does get into great position.

Charges are kept track of. Davis has 3 on the year, which puts him in a 5-way tie for 3rd among PF's for charges taken per game.

EDIT: Sorry, didn't tell you where!

http://www.hoopdata.com/defrebstats.aspx?team=%25&type=pg&posi=PF&yr=2011&gp=0&mins=0

Have you been watching games? He has way more than 3.

  There have been multiple posts discussing this. He's not claiming Davis has 3, a website is.

[guava_wrench]

Is taking charges REALLY an effective defensive strategy?  How effective do you have to be at getting the charge called for it to be a better strategy than going for the block/trying to alter the shot? 

Since people are tracking the number of charges players take, do they also track the number of *attempted* charges that get called as blocking fouls?

Taking a charge is mostly just playing good positional defense. If you have a good spot on the floor, waiting on the ground for a guy to hit you may be better than meeting him in the air and hoping the refs can tell that you jumped straight up.

It seems the majority of charges these days are just outside the circle by help defenders who are closing off the lane. Closing off the lane from penetration seems like good defense to me.

[guava_wrench]

Charges should be credited like steals are.

While Baby is great at getting charges, he has also become a shameless flopper. Even the slightest contact and he hits the floor. The refs ignore his flops sometimes, but he is one of the most egregious floppers in the league at the moment.

I'll take it though. He does get into great position.

Charges are kept track of. Davis has 3 on the year, which puts him in a 5-way tie for 3rd among PF's for charges taken per game.

EDIT: Sorry, didn't tell you where!

http://www.hoopdata.com/defrebstats.aspx?team=%25&type=pg&posi=PF&yr=2011&gp=0&mins=0

Have you been watching games? He has way more than 3.

  There have been multiple posts discussing this. He's not claiming Davis has 3, a website is.

Which gets back to the problem that essentially no one is keeping track since that site is clearly crap (and that should have been obvious for anyone watching the games before posting '3').

[BballTim]

Charges should be credited like steals are.

While Baby is great at getting charges, he has also become a shameless flopper. Even the slightest contact and he hits the floor. The refs ignore his flops sometimes, but he is one of the most egregious floppers in the league at the moment.

I'll take it though. He does get into great position.

Charges are kept track of. Davis has 3 on the year, which puts him in a 5-way tie for 3rd among PF's for charges taken per game.

EDIT: Sorry, didn't tell you where!

http://www.hoopdata.com/defrebstats.aspx?team=%25&type=pg&posi=PF&yr=2011&gp=0&mins=0

Have you been watching games? He has way more than 3.

  There have been multiple posts discussing this. He's not claiming Davis has 3, a website is.

Which gets back to the problem that essentially no one is keeping track since that site is clearly crap (and that should have been obvious for anyone watching the games before posting '3').

  No that site isn't clearly crap, only for certain items. There's a lot of useful data there and most of the data I've seen correlates fairly well with other sites.

[indeedproceed]

Charges should be credited like steals are.

While Baby is great at getting charges, he has also become a shameless flopper. Even the slightest contact and he hits the floor. The refs ignore his flops sometimes, but he is one of the most egregious floppers in the league at the moment.

I'll take it though. He does get into great position.

Charges are kept track of. Davis has 3 on the year, which puts him in a 5-way tie for 3rd among PF's for charges taken per game.

EDIT: Sorry, didn't tell you where!

http://www.hoopdata.com/defrebstats.aspx?team=%25&type=pg&posi=PF&yr=2011&gp=0&mins=0

Have you been watching games? He has way more than 3.

  There have been multiple posts discussing this. He's not claiming Davis has 3, a website is.

Which gets back to the problem that essentially no one is keeping track since that site is clearly crap (and that should have been obvious for anyone watching the games before posting '3').

(so sorry, mostly during games I sit in the chat room and heckle master Po. I don't even bother watching the Boston Football Giants or whatever)

Player Name   TEAM   Pos   GP   CHG
Nick Collison   OKC   PF   75   57
Ersan Ilyasova   MIL   PF   81   47
Jared Jeffries   NYK   PF   52   44
Luis Scola   HOU   PF   82   41
Anderson Varejao   CLE   PF   76   28
Andray Blatche   WAS   PF   81   28
Josh Smith   ATL   PF   81   26
Udonis Haslem   MIA   PF   78   24
Al Harrington   NYK   PF   72   23
Dirk Nowitzki   DAL   PF   81   20
Glen Davis   BOS   PF   54   20
Paul Millsap   UTH   PF   82   20
Amare Stoudemire   PHO   PF   82   18
Craig Smith   LAC   PF   75   16
Pau Gasol   LAL   PF   65   16
Jared Jeffries   HOU   PF   18   15
Antawn Jamison   WAS   PF   41   14
Boris Diaw   CHA   PF   82   14

I think these numbers are legit, mostly because I've seen other more creditable people than myself reference them. They're last years' hoopdata charges figures, so I thought maybe this years would be legit too.

But, that comes back around to my own problem with charges. They have Andresen Varejao with 28 charges there, making him 5th among PF's. Okay, I can believe he had the 5th most charges among PF's.

What I don't believe is that he only had 28 on the year. everytime we play those guys it seems like he takes a charge or two, but the only place I've found data on charges is saying that even Nick Collision, the guy who leads the league, doesn't get 1.0 charges taken per game.

Part of me thinks it is anecdotal to a degree, that we 'remember' more charges than actually happened, but AV had to have taken more than 28.

Hence, my problem with charges.  

[paul]

Taking charges is an essential defensive strategy, because it's the only way to keep slashers and penetrators honest.  Geez, I remember the way Magic would routinely charge the lane like an effing steam train, because he knew no one would dare to get in his way.

[Fafnir]

Charges should be credited like steals are.

While Baby is great at getting charges, he has also become a shameless flopper. Even the slightest contact and he hits the floor. The refs ignore his flops sometimes, but he is one of the most egregious floppers in the league at the moment.

I'll take it though. He does get into great position.

Charges are kept track of. Davis has 3 on the year, which puts him in a 5-way tie for 3rd among PF's for charges taken per game.

EDIT: Sorry, didn't tell you where!

http://www.hoopdata.com/defrebstats.aspx?team=%25&type=pg&posi=PF&yr=2011&gp=0&mins=0

Have you been watching games? He has way more than 3.

  There have been multiple posts discussing this. He's not claiming Davis has 3, a website is.

Which gets back to the problem that essentially no one is keeping track since that site is clearly crap (and that should have been obvious for anyone watching the games before posting '3').

  No that site isn't clearly crap, only for certain items. There's a lot of useful data there and most of the data I've seen correlates fairly well with other sites.

Its shooting data will interest Rondo Haters and Lovers alike. And is accurate as any other data I've found on shooting.