Glen Davis - Best 6th Man in the NBA

[MBz]

Davis is clearly in great shape.

His play proves it.

Agreed.  I just think he is a big individual.  He's playing 29 minutes a game and his stamina has not been an issue.  I also think him being out of shape has been highly exaggerated his entire career.  His junior year of college he played 35 minutes a game and it was not an issue.  He is most definitely a big dude, but the amount of minutes he has played have never suffered due to his weight.

[Fan from VT]

If he stays focused Glen can do it. I think you can attribute Glens success to two things. First his work ethic and secondly surrouding him with strong veteran leadership. Glen has grown up alot the last two years and the skys the limit.

You're right to an extent, but I'd ask two things:

1) How much of a work ethic can a clearly overweight player have?

2) What will happen when that veteran leadership is gone in two years?

I like him and I really appreciate what he does for the team.  However, I question the wisdom of giving him a long term contract.  Can a 6-6 nearly 300 lb. player ever really be the starting power forward on a championship level team?  And if not, is it worth eating up valuable cap space that could go towards a free agent that could? 

Let's start with the fact that he's not 6'6', and he's not nearly 300 lbs, and see whether we can have an unbiased discussion about the situation.

Yeah, true. Baby is 6-9, 285 lbs.

6'7.75" without shoes
6'9" with shoes

Did not have wingspan measured.

[indeedproceed]

Yeah, true. Baby is 6-9, 285 lbs.

6'7.75" without shoes
6'9" with shoes

Did not have wingspan measured.

Yeah, maybe this comment belongs here:

If he is going to justify starters minutes, he either needs get up to a Nene (i think generally considered a "good starter")-type level to be considered a good PF starter: 12.2/7.0/1.2 in 26.8 mpg or 14.6/7.8/1.4 in 32.6 mpg. Or, if his rebounding is maxed out, and he's going to be a scorer, a truly great bench scorer is someone like maggette, who throws up an 18.6/5.6/1.8 in 31 minutes.

You want Davis to average 18 ppg. on a team with Kevin Garnett, Paul Pierce, Ray Allen, and Rajon Rondo? That's funny.

if people expect him to start and he's going to play starters minutes, and he is going to continue to be just an average to solid defender and non-creator, then yes, in ~30 mpg as a pf he's got to either get up to 18 ppg or almost double his rebounding. until then, he's a good bench player.

Can you tell me what the lottery numbers would be tonight?

I actually agree with Fan From VT here. Davis is a "hustle" or "lucky" rebounder, and he's an average to solid defender. Garnett and Shaq are both better rebounders, and both players defend large centers better.

If BBD was 6'9 without shoes with the length to go with it, he'd be a very good starter to borderline all-star...if he had a freak vertical leap like Tyrus Thomas, he'd be a starter. But, he's 6'7 without shoes, and his arm length is average at best. He's a crafty and smart scorer in the post, and he's our most valuable bench player right now, but he doesn't have the hops of the height to be a starter in the NBA.

[Chris]

If he stays focused Glen can do it. I think you can attribute Glens success to two things. First his work ethic and secondly surrouding him with strong veteran leadership. Glen has grown up alot the last two years and the skys the limit.

You're right to an extent, but I'd ask two things:

1) How much of a work ethic can a clearly overweight player have?

2) What will happen when that veteran leadership is gone in two years?

I like him and I really appreciate what he does for the team.  However, I question the wisdom of giving him a long term contract.  Can a 6-6 nearly 300 lb. player ever really be the starting power forward on a championship level team?  And if not, is it worth eating up valuable cap space that could go towards a free agent that could? 

Let's start with the fact that he's not 6'6', and he's not nearly 300 lbs, and see whether we can have an unbiased discussion about the situation.

Yeah, true. Baby is 6-9, 285 lbs.

6'7.75" without shoes
6'9" with shoes

Did not have wingspan measured.

For the record, I do not believe those are from the combine.  I think those are leaked from an individual workout, and therefore not necessarily reliable.

[Fan from VT]

If he stays focused Glen can do it. I think you can attribute Glens success to two things. First his work ethic and secondly surrouding him with strong veteran leadership. Glen has grown up alot the last two years and the skys the limit.

You're right to an extent, but I'd ask two things:

1) How much of a work ethic can a clearly overweight player have?

2) What will happen when that veteran leadership is gone in two years?

I like him and I really appreciate what he does for the team.  However, I question the wisdom of giving him a long term contract.  Can a 6-6 nearly 300 lb. player ever really be the starting power forward on a championship level team?  And if not, is it worth eating up valuable cap space that could go towards a free agent that could? 

Let's start with the fact that he's not 6'6', and he's not nearly 300 lbs, and see whether we can have an unbiased discussion about the situation.

Yeah, true. Baby is 6-9, 285 lbs.

6'7.75" without shoes
6'9" with shoes

Did not have wingspan measured.

For the record, I do not believe those are from the combine.  I think those are leaked from an individual workout, and therefore not necessarily reliable.

oh. that would explain the lack of wingspan. So that's an upper-end estimate; probably a little shorter.

[indeedproceed]

For the record, I do not believe those are from the combine.  I think those are leaked from an individual workout, and therefore not necessarily reliable.

oh. that would explain the lack of wingspan. So that's an upper-end estimate; probably a little shorter.

Exactly. And honestly any vert #'s baby had from the combine (had he participated) are probably substantially better now. Still low, but he was legit fat then.

The wingspan for Glen Davis is something we never talk about. Its not good. He's very strong, but he's not especially long, and that hurts his rebounding (more than his scoring), because it means he's gotta be right there to rope the ball in.

[Chris]

For the record, I do not believe those are from the combine.  I think those are leaked from an individual workout, and therefore not necessarily reliable.

oh. that would explain the lack of wingspan. So that's an upper-end estimate; probably a little shorter.

Exactly. And honestly any vert #'s baby had from the combine are probably substantially better now. Still low, but he was legit fat then.

Right, but I want to re-iterate, Baby did not attend the combine.  I think people need to realize that half of the numbers on the Draftexpress spreadsheet are either from less reliable sources than the combine, or are simply "estimates".  Glen Davis' measurements are marked with this:

* players marked with an * have an unofficial measurement that look reasonable.

From DraftExpress.com http://www.draftexpress.com/nba-pre-draft-measurements/?year=All&sort2=DESC&draft=&pos=&source=All&sort=1#ixzz1438yKb7X
http://www.draftexpress.com

[mmbaby]

Ya'll are pickin' nits.
Just let the man play, will ya?
Be happy you have him. Perk, JO, Shaq, Erm are all hurt and he's having to play both center and power forward. Hope he doesn't end up hurt too because of the constant switch in positions. No wonder he doesn't know his role.
Maybe Doc should have anticipated these injuries more than he has. Seems like shoddy planning somehow.
Ya'll are complaining and nitting about the only big player we have who is healthy and he's doing a dang good job.
Praise the man; he deserves it.

[indeedproceed]

Ya'll are pickin' nits.
Just let the man play, will ya?
Be happy you have him. Perk, JO, Shaq, Erm are all hurt and he's having to play both center and power forward. Hope he doesn't end up hurt too because of the constant switch in positions. No wonder he doesn't know his role.
Maybe Doc should have anticipated these injuries more than he has. Seems like shoddy planning somehow.
Ya'll are complaining and nitting about the only big player we have who is healthy and he's doing a dang good job.
Praise the man; he deserves it.

I think there is a difference between praising him and saying things that aren't true about him. Like for instance saying he's the best 6th man in the NBA is like saying Paul Pierce is the best scoring 3 in the NBA.

Ben Gordon is averaging 22 points over 3 games as a reserve. Wilson Chandler showed us personally why he should be in the running by knocking out 18 points, 6 boards, 2 steals and 4 blocks off the bench. He's averaging 21.7 on the year. That's just 2 guys off the top of my head without really looking for anyone.

Glen Davis is our most important bench player, and of our FC guys, he's the one I like watching the most, because he's all energy..but there is no way he'll win 6th man of the year.

Note: other guys not starting but playing well...Derrick Favors (10 and 10), Serge Ibaka (10 and 8 with 3 blocks), Al Harrington (16 and 6, 42% from in 26 mins), Lou Williams (17 pts 5 asts)

[Chris]

Ya'll are pickin' nits.
Just let the man play, will ya?
Be happy you have him. Perk, JO, Shaq, Erm are all hurt and he's having to play both center and power forward. Hope he doesn't end up hurt too because of the constant switch in positions. No wonder he doesn't know his role.
Maybe Doc should have anticipated these injuries more than he has. Seems like shoddy planning somehow.
Ya'll are complaining and nitting about the only big player we have who is healthy and he's doing a dang good job.
Praise the man; he deserves it.

While I agree with the "just let him play" point of view, I have to disagree with the "shoddy planning".

Just because Davis claimed he didn't "know his role" early in preseason doesn't mean Doc didn't.  

From the looks of things, it looks like he is playing pretty close to the same role he played last season.  Davis just seemed to convince himself that wasn't going to be the case, and mentioned it to the press before he had a chance to learn what his role was going to be.

As for the switching between PF and Center, that really only matters for fantasy owners.  The positions are pretty interchangable in the C's system, and they have been since Davis got here.  Yes, Davis is expected to do slightly different things depending on who else is on the floor, but that is the same thing for everybody on the team.  It is all a part of playing team basketball.

And frankly, it looks like Davis is dealing with all of this pretty darn well.  So just like we shouldn't be getting on Davis, we also shouldn't be getting on the coach, just because Davis spoke to the press before he had a chance to figure things out.

[kozlodoev]

oh. that would explain the lack of wingspan. So that's an upper-end estimate; probably a little shorter.

That's a fair statement. But it doesn't make him 6'6.

As far as being "close to 300 pounds", this measurement hasn't been updated for 2 or 3 seasons -- and it was taken when he was visibly in worse shape, and had issues maintaining high his level of play for more than 20 minutes.

So making those assertions to is an obvious display of bias designed to drive a point. That's all I was trying to say.

[BballTim]

Ya'll are pickin' nits.
Just let the man play, will ya?
Be happy you have him. Perk, JO, Shaq, Erm are all hurt and he's having to play both center and power forward. Hope he doesn't end up hurt too because of the constant switch in positions. No wonder he doesn't know his role.
Maybe Doc should have anticipated these injuries more than he has. Seems like shoddy planning somehow.
Ya'll are complaining and nitting about the only big player we have who is healthy and he's doing a dang good job.
Praise the man; he deserves it.

I think there is a difference between praising him and saying things that aren't true about him. Like for instance saying he's the best 6th man in the NBA is like saying Paul Pierce is the best scoring 3 in the NBA.

  While I don't personally think that BBD (or anyone else on the Celts) are going to end up in the running for 6th man of the year, you and Fan from VT are both saying that he wouldn't be 6th man of the year as of now like it's a fact. Clearly it's just your opinion. You may very well be right, but obviously you have no way of confirming your suspicions.

[indeedproceed]

Ya'll are pickin' nits.
Just let the man play, will ya?
Be happy you have him. Perk, JO, Shaq, Erm are all hurt and he's having to play both center and power forward. Hope he doesn't end up hurt too because of the constant switch in positions. No wonder he doesn't know his role.
Maybe Doc should have anticipated these injuries more than he has. Seems like shoddy planning somehow.
Ya'll are complaining and nitting about the only big player we have who is healthy and he's doing a dang good job.
Praise the man; he deserves it.

I think there is a difference between praising him and saying things that aren't true about him. Like for instance saying he's the best 6th man in the NBA is like saying Paul Pierce is the best scoring 3 in the NBA.

  While I don't personally think that BBD (or anyone else on the Celts) are going to end up in the running for 6th man of the year, you and Fan from VT are both saying that he wouldn't be 6th man of the year as of now like it's a fact. Clearly it's just your opinion. You may very well be right, but obviously you have no way of confirming your suspicions.

Well right now, with the current production through 3 games for the rest of the league, its a fact..no?

I mean, especially (if?) when Kendrick, Shaq and JO are all 100%, or even Shaq and JO, BBD will get less burn. Plus, he doesn't board, and his scoring is just 'good', but not great.

I guess its opinion, but what's the other case? Davis is going to get more than 29 minutes per game?

[Fan from VT]

oh. that would explain the lack of wingspan. So that's an upper-end estimate; probably a little shorter.

That's a fair statement. But it doesn't make him 6'6.

As far as being "close to 300 pounds", this measurement hasn't been updated for 2 or 3 seasons -- and it was taken when he was visibly in worse shape, and had issues maintaining high his level of play for more than 20 minutes.

So making those assertions to is an obvious display of bias designed to drive a point. That's all I was trying to say.

i didn't make statements about his weight; i just posted his pre draft heights which are unofficial. i think he's got decent size and seems in improved shape.

[LooseCannon]

Just because Davis claimed he didn't "know his role" early in preseason doesn't mean Doc didn't.  

Doc seems to have a pretty clear idea of how he wants to use Glen Davis.

From the blog on ESPN Boston:

Rivers admitted the Semih Erden Era could start in earnest Tuesday against the Pistons, with potential even for Erden to start (he ran with the first-teamers at the end of Sunday's session). That would take some of the pressure off the rookie center, who has yet to see floor time despite being active through the first three games. It would also allow the team to keep Glen Davis in his first-off-the-bench role.

"I don't like starting Baby; Baby comes in at the 5 or 4 off the bench and when you start him, now you really take away a lot of options," said Rivers. "And then if he gets in foul trouble, you've taken away all your options."