So who do we get for big baby now?

[kozlodoev]

If he is going to justify starters minutes, he either needs get up to a Nene (i think generally considered a "good starter")-type level to be considered a good PF starter: 12.2/7.0/1.2 in 26.8 mpg or 14.6/7.8/1.4 in 32.6 mpg. Or, if his rebounding is maxed out, and he's going to be a scorer, a truly great bench scorer is someone like maggette, who throws up an 18.6/5.6/1.8 in 31 minutes.

You want Davis to average 18 ppg. on a team with Kevin Garnett, Paul Pierce, Ray Allen, and Rajon Rondo? That's funny.

[Fafnir]

So it's worrisome to me that even looking great while watching, he's still just providing "good" bench production expanded into borderline starter minutes.

Which bench players, in particular, average 13.5 points in 24 minutes per game?!

Lots and lots of them when they shoot 70% from the field. Davis has a TS% of .716, which would lead the league last year by 86 points.

If his efficiency were to drop down to merely LeBron James's level of .600 last year (the MVP) his scoring would drop to 10 points a game.

Or maybe not, since Davis is no longer averaging 31 minutes (down to 28.6) or .712 from the field (down to .667 FG%), yet his ppg has gone up to 14.3. Go figure.

Oh the fun with small sample sizes, that one game really showed that I was wrong! His TS% is still .677 so its not like its back to the norm I was talking about.

We've both made our points, I suggest we calm down and let the season develop. I truly hope you're right and Glen Davis can post a higher TS% than Paul Pierce ever has.

[Fan from VT]

If he is going to justify starters minutes, he either needs get up to a Nene (i think generally considered a "good starter")-type level to be considered a good PF starter: 12.2/7.0/1.2 in 26.8 mpg or 14.6/7.8/1.4 in 32.6 mpg. Or, if his rebounding is maxed out, and he's going to be a scorer, a truly great bench scorer is someone like maggette, who throws up an 18.6/5.6/1.8 in 31 minutes.

You want Davis to average 18 ppg. on a team with Kevin Garnett, Paul Pierce, Ray Allen, and Rajon Rondo? That's funny.

if people expect him to start and he's going to play starters minutes, and he is going to continue to be just an average to solid defender and non-creator, then yes, in ~30 mpg as a pf he's got to either get up to 18 ppg or almost double his rebounding. until then, he's a good bench player.

[Bankshot]

If he is going to justify starters minutes, he either needs get up to a Nene (i think generally considered a "good starter")-type level to be considered a good PF starter: 12.2/7.0/1.2 in 26.8 mpg or 14.6/7.8/1.4 in 32.6 mpg. Or, if his rebounding is maxed out, and he's going to be a scorer, a truly great bench scorer is someone like maggette, who throws up an 18.6/5.6/1.8 in 31 minutes.

You want Davis to average 18 ppg. on a team with Kevin Garnett, Paul Pierce, Ray Allen, and Rajon Rondo? That's funny.

if people expect him to start and he's going to play starters minutes, and he is going to continue to be just an average to solid defender and non-creator, then yes, in ~30 mpg as a pf he's got to either get up to 18 ppg or almost double his rebounding. until then, he's a good bench player.

Can you tell me what the lottery numbers would be tonight?

[indeedproceed]

If he is going to justify starters minutes, he either needs get up to a Nene (i think generally considered a "good starter")-type level to be considered a good PF starter: 12.2/7.0/1.2 in 26.8 mpg or 14.6/7.8/1.4 in 32.6 mpg. Or, if his rebounding is maxed out, and he's going to be a scorer, a truly great bench scorer is someone like maggette, who throws up an 18.6/5.6/1.8 in 31 minutes.

You want Davis to average 18 ppg. on a team with Kevin Garnett, Paul Pierce, Ray Allen, and Rajon Rondo? That's funny.

if people expect him to start and he's going to play starters minutes, and he is going to continue to be just an average to solid defender and non-creator, then yes, in ~30 mpg as a pf he's got to either get up to 18 ppg or almost double his rebounding. until then, he's a good bench player.

Can you tell me what the lottery numbers would be tonight?

I actually agree with Fan From VT here. Davis is a "hustle" or "lucky" rebounder, and he's an average to solid defender. Garnett and Shaq are both better rebounders, and both players defend large centers better.

If BBD was 6'9 without shoes with the length to go with it, he'd be a very good starter to borderline all-star...if he had a freak vertical leap like Tyrus Thomas, he'd be a starter. But, he's 6'7 without shoes, and his arm length is average at best. He's a crafty and smart scorer in the post, and he's our most valuable bench player right now, but he doesn't have the hops of the height to be a starter in the NBA.

[Bankshot]

If he is going to justify starters minutes, he either needs get up to a Nene (i think generally considered a "good starter")-type level to be considered a good PF starter: 12.2/7.0/1.2 in 26.8 mpg or 14.6/7.8/1.4 in 32.6 mpg. Or, if his rebounding is maxed out, and he's going to be a scorer, a truly great bench scorer is someone like maggette, who throws up an 18.6/5.6/1.8 in 31 minutes.

You want Davis to average 18 ppg. on a team with Kevin Garnett, Paul Pierce, Ray Allen, and Rajon Rondo? That's funny.

if people expect him to start and he's going to play starters minutes, and he is going to continue to be just an average to solid defender and non-creator, then yes, in ~30 mpg as a pf he's got to either get up to 18 ppg or almost double his rebounding. until then, he's a good bench player.

Can you tell me what the lottery numbers would be tonight?

I actually agree with Fan From VT here. Davis is a "hustle" or "lucky" rebounder, and he's an average to solid defender. Garnett and Shaq are both better rebounders, and both players defend large centers better.

If BBD was 6'9 without shoes with the length to go with it, he'd be a very good starter to borderline all-star...if he had a freak vertical leap like Tyrus Thomas, he'd be a starter. But, he's 6'7 without shoes, and his arm length is average at best. He's a crafty and smart scorer in the post, and he's our most valuable bench player right now, but he doesn't have the hops of the height to be a starter in the NBA.

Whoa!  Who said he should be a starter?  I know I didn't.  I just think he's too valuable to trade right now, given all the injuries and potential for injuries in the old bigs we have.

[Fan from VT]

If he is going to justify starters minutes, he either needs get up to a Nene (i think generally considered a "good starter")-type level to be considered a good PF starter: 12.2/7.0/1.2 in 26.8 mpg or 14.6/7.8/1.4 in 32.6 mpg. Or, if his rebounding is maxed out, and he's going to be a scorer, a truly great bench scorer is someone like maggette, who throws up an 18.6/5.6/1.8 in 31 minutes.

You want Davis to average 18 ppg. on a team with Kevin Garnett, Paul Pierce, Ray Allen, and Rajon Rondo? That's funny.

if people expect him to start and he's going to play starters minutes, and he is going to continue to be just an average to solid defender and non-creator, then yes, in ~30 mpg as a pf he's got to either get up to 18 ppg or almost double his rebounding. until then, he's a good bench player.

Can you tell me what the lottery numbers would be tonight?

Well, has there been any indication at all that he will every be a "very good" or better defender, or even any glimpses at all of him being a creator of the PF spot?

I mean, I DO NOT LIKE criticizing celtics. But I am easily sucked into discussions by irrational, homeristic sentiments. People around here act as if Davis is having unprecedented success, and is close to being a franchise cornerstone...They keep saying if, if, if, x,y,z,a,b,c go right he'll get there, without acknowledging just how rare that is. Players who end up being franchise cornerstones show SOMETHING to hint toward that end...and I don't mean what Davis has shown so far, I mean hints of something much greater than Davis has shown, not colored by homerism and hopeful thinking. At the same time, we would laugh if other fanbases were banking on the inevitable all-starness of similar players.

[Fan from VT]

If he is going to justify starters minutes, he either needs get up to a Nene (i think generally considered a "good starter")-type level to be considered a good PF starter: 12.2/7.0/1.2 in 26.8 mpg or 14.6/7.8/1.4 in 32.6 mpg. Or, if his rebounding is maxed out, and he's going to be a scorer, a truly great bench scorer is someone like maggette, who throws up an 18.6/5.6/1.8 in 31 minutes.

You want Davis to average 18 ppg. on a team with Kevin Garnett, Paul Pierce, Ray Allen, and Rajon Rondo? That's funny.

if people expect him to start and he's going to play starters minutes, and he is going to continue to be just an average to solid defender and non-creator, then yes, in ~30 mpg as a pf he's got to either get up to 18 ppg or almost double his rebounding. until then, he's a good bench player.

Can you tell me what the lottery numbers would be tonight?

I actually agree with Fan From VT here. Davis is a "hustle" or "lucky" rebounder, and he's an average to solid defender. Garnett and Shaq are both better rebounders, and both players defend large centers better.

If BBD was 6'9 without shoes with the length to go with it, he'd be a very good starter to borderline all-star...if he had a freak vertical leap like Tyrus Thomas, he'd be a starter. But, he's 6'7 without shoes, and his arm length is average at best. He's a crafty and smart scorer in the post, and he's our most valuable bench player right now, but he doesn't have the hops of the height to be a starter in the NBA.

Whoa!  Who said he should be a starter?  I know I didn't.  I just think he's too valuable to trade right now, given all the injuries and potential for injuries in the old bigs we have.

Then we are having 2 different conversations.

I think he's a good bench player.

Some people think, with Rondo and Davis, we have 2/3 of the next "big three." My comments have been in regards to the latter subject.

[Bankshot]

If he is going to justify starters minutes, he either needs get up to a Nene (i think generally considered a "good starter")-type level to be considered a good PF starter: 12.2/7.0/1.2 in 26.8 mpg or 14.6/7.8/1.4 in 32.6 mpg. Or, if his rebounding is maxed out, and he's going to be a scorer, a truly great bench scorer is someone like maggette, who throws up an 18.6/5.6/1.8 in 31 minutes.

You want Davis to average 18 ppg. on a team with Kevin Garnett, Paul Pierce, Ray Allen, and Rajon Rondo? That's funny.

if people expect him to start and he's going to play starters minutes, and he is going to continue to be just an average to solid defender and non-creator, then yes, in ~30 mpg as a pf he's got to either get up to 18 ppg or almost double his rebounding. until then, he's a good bench player.

Can you tell me what the lottery numbers would be tonight?

Well, has there been any indication at all that he will every be a "very good" or better defender, or even any glimpses at all of him being a creator of the PF spot?

I mean, I DO NOT LIKE criticizing celtics. But I am easily sucked into discussions by irrational, homeristic sentiments. People around here act as if Davis is having unprecedented success, and is close to being a franchise cornerstone...They keep saying if, if, if, x,y,z,a,b,c go right he'll get there, without acknowledging just how rare that is. Players who end up being franchise cornerstones show SOMETHING to hint toward that end...and I don't mean what Davis has shown so far, I mean hints of something much greater than Davis has shown, not colored by homerism and hopeful thinking. At the same time, we would laugh if other fanbases were banking on the inevitable all-starness of similar players.

LOL.  Is that why every time someone states something good about Davis, you refute it?

[indeedproceed]

If he is going to justify starters minutes, he either needs get up to a Nene (i think generally considered a "good starter")-type level to be considered a good PF starter: 12.2/7.0/1.2 in 26.8 mpg or 14.6/7.8/1.4 in 32.6 mpg. Or, if his rebounding is maxed out, and he's going to be a scorer, a truly great bench scorer is someone like maggette, who throws up an 18.6/5.6/1.8 in 31 minutes.

You want Davis to average 18 ppg. on a team with Kevin Garnett, Paul Pierce, Ray Allen, and Rajon Rondo? That's funny.

if people expect him to start and he's going to play starters minutes, and he is going to continue to be just an average to solid defender and non-creator, then yes, in ~30 mpg as a pf he's got to either get up to 18 ppg or almost double his rebounding. until then, he's a good bench player.

Can you tell me what the lottery numbers would be tonight?

I actually agree with Fan From VT here. Davis is a "hustle" or "lucky" rebounder, and he's an average to solid defender. Garnett and Shaq are both better rebounders, and both players defend large centers better.

If BBD was 6'9 without shoes with the length to go with it, he'd be a very good starter to borderline all-star...if he had a freak vertical leap like Tyrus Thomas, he'd be a starter. But, he's 6'7 without shoes, and his arm length is average at best. He's a crafty and smart scorer in the post, and he's our most valuable bench player right now, but he doesn't have the hops of the height to be a starter in the NBA.

Whoa!  Who said he should be a starter?  I know I didn't.  I just think he's too valuable to trade right now, given all the injuries and potential for injuries in the old bigs we have.

Then we are having 2 different conversations.

I think he's a good bench player.

Some people think, with Rondo and Davis, we have 2/3 of the next "big three." My comments have been in regards to the latter subject.

Yeah I mistook your comments as well. I thought you were implying that Glen Davis can be a 30 MPG starter in this league.

[Fan from VT]

If he is going to justify starters minutes, he either needs get up to a Nene (i think generally considered a "good starter")-type level to be considered a good PF starter: 12.2/7.0/1.2 in 26.8 mpg or 14.6/7.8/1.4 in 32.6 mpg. Or, if his rebounding is maxed out, and he's going to be a scorer, a truly great bench scorer is someone like maggette, who throws up an 18.6/5.6/1.8 in 31 minutes.

You want Davis to average 18 ppg. on a team with Kevin Garnett, Paul Pierce, Ray Allen, and Rajon Rondo? That's funny.

if people expect him to start and he's going to play starters minutes, and he is going to continue to be just an average to solid defender and non-creator, then yes, in ~30 mpg as a pf he's got to either get up to 18 ppg or almost double his rebounding. until then, he's a good bench player.

Can you tell me what the lottery numbers would be tonight?

Well, has there been any indication at all that he will every be a "very good" or better defender, or even any glimpses at all of him being a creator of the PF spot?

I mean, I DO NOT LIKE criticizing celtics. But I am easily sucked into discussions by [statements based upon wishful confirmationally biased observations unobserved by parties without emotional rooting interests and unsubstantiated by neutral observers and/or unsubstantiated/easily refuted by statistical comparisons]. People around here act as if Davis is having unprecedented success, and is close to being a franchise cornerstone...They keep saying if, if, if, x,y,z,a,b,c go right he'll get there, without acknowledging just how rare that is. Players who end up being franchise cornerstones show SOMETHING to hint toward that end...and I don't mean what Davis has shown so far, I mean hints of something much greater than Davis has shown, not colored by hopeful thinking and keeping the good stuff in memory while eliminating the bad/long stretches of neutral. At the same time, such parties frequently will laugh if other fanbases bank on the inevitable all-starness of similar players.

LOL.  Is that why every time someone states something good about Davis, you refute it?

If this conversation doesn't concern your point of view, stop jumping in and further confusing things. I tend to get involved when people make statements that have no neutral or statistical support or precedence, and, despite an absolute paucity of evidence, such people state that Davis is going to be Barkley, McHale, or Schrempf (not making any of that up). If that is not you, then don't worry about it.

People make spontaneous claims like he's "6th man of the year so far," which is easily refutable by a small amount of league-wide research and is blatantly due to the emotional high of seeing a good backup perform his role on a good, beloved team, as many other bench players on non-celtic rosters clearly have more of an impact on their team's outcome.

 I've never said he's a bad player. I think he's a good backup. He's our 5th to 7th most valuable player, depending on Shaq and Perk's health.     

Much like how every fan base believes that the majority of ref calls go against their teams, every fan base believes they have a future franchise player coming off the bench. Most will be wrong, and those players that do end up as franchise players show some hint of spectacularity that shows up as something besides "hustle."


Edited to remover "homer," "irrational," and "illogical." (though, with the exception of "homer," the other two terms were used technically ).

[Chris]

OK, lets be 100% clear here.  It is against site rules to call anothers opinion "irrational", or "complete homerism", or denegrate their opinion in a similar way.  If you don't agree, make your argument for your side, and leave it at that. 

[Yoki_IsTheName]

I really want Big Baby staying in green but if the C's really are gonna be trading Davis, i'd go for that Jason Thompson idea.

Thompson is a solid rebounder, has a decent mid range game too. Though he is not as energetic and hustling as Big Baby is. But I'll probably pull the trigger on the fact that he's taller. That's pretty much the only advantage I'll take. I believe with the veterans surrounding him, if ever Thompson ends up in Boston he'll be a good defender as well.

I want BBD staying, but if Sacramento offered this for him, this won't be a bad trade to pull.

just an opinion.

[2short]

I was one of the people thinking of using him for trades as he and Nate imo are the only real trade value players we have
HOWEVER in the current state of celtic bigs with injuries we cannot trade him unless its a crazy deal that we can't refuse.

[Jon Niednagel]

In my opinion, BBD is the perfect big off the bench. Given the health of the Celtic's bigs, I'd also say we need another big like him rather than another player for him.  He knows his role and stays in it. He knows the system. He plays defense well, he plays offense well, and he brings energy and hustle. He is versatile with his ability to play power forward or center. He can play with any unit and adjust his game to compliment other player's abilities. He rarely makes bad plays, though he doesn't have the height to make certain plays effectively. He is cheap for his production. He can stay healthy. He and KG have been our only two consistent bigs. He is too valuable to trade despite his shortcomings.