Harangody #55 - a born Celtic

[Section301]

Here's my idea of how to win this year:

Paul Pierce - Luke Harangody
KG - Baby Davis
Ray Allen - Marquis
Perkins - Shaq - O'Neil
Rhondo - Nate

And we should have kept Bill Walker!!
Harangody needs a nickname; his name is so long. And I have a feeling his name is going to be announced a lot in the coming season. Great game for him; he was a presence in every play and is so versatile.

OK, so you'd like to put a rookie in to back up Pierce and completely take Delonte (who's a veteran with serious playoff experience) out of the rotation? 

I think Gody would get eaten up trying to defend the 3.  He's got the potential to be a good bench 4, but a 3?  Not so much.

Did anyone else notice that Quisy was the one assigned to guard Amare last night when they went to the small lineup(and did a creditable job), even though Gody was on the floor and the larger player?  If Gody can't guard a mobile 5, there's no way he can keep up with a quality 3. 

[apc]

Hah, like it, but still too long.
Anyone else like my lineup for the season?

where is Delonte in your lineup?
you don’t think he should play?

[Boris Badenov]

I still don't understand why Ainge fills our roster with undersized 4's. Aside Garnett and Al Jefferson's short stint in green, all of our power forwards have been undersized hustle players. Baby, now Harangody, Gomes, can even go back to the days of Brandon Hunter.

So aside from our last 2 starting PFs for the last 5 years, all of our PFs have been undersized. I can live with that.

He hasnt used any picks to get properly sized bigs because all of the ones that can contribute generally get taken in the top 10.

I know you hate tweeners PJ but were probably stuck with them as draft picks until we suck again!

We've had a few normal-sized PFs, but as everyone has been saying, they typically have other flaws:

Sheed - lazy, old
Shelden - worst hands this side of Duane Causwell
PJ Brown - on the verge of retirement
Scal - where to begin?
Kevinn Pinkney - errrr....
Raef LaFrentz - more interested in being outside 3 pt line than in paint.

That list makes Gomes look pretty good.

[LooseCannon]

I still don't understand why Ainge fills our roster with undersized 4's. Aside Garnett and Al Jefferson's short stint in green, all of our power forwards have been undersized hustle players. Baby, now Harangody, Gomes, can even go back to the days of Brandon Hunter.

Here are the power forwards drafted after Gomes.  Belgian Axel Hervelle, who remains in Europe.  Lawrence Roberts, who spent two seasons with Memphis and is now in Europe.  Amir Johnson, who was turning pro straight out of high school.  Marcin Gortat, listed as a PF/C, and I think we all would prefer the Polish Hammer to Gomes.  Uros Slokar, who saw only garbage minutes with Toronto before going back to Europe.

Undrafted power forwards that year who have spent time in the NBA include: The even shorter Chuck Hayes, who plays well for Houston.  Journeyman Josh Powell, now with his sixth team in seven seasons.  Shavlik Randolph.  Jawad Williams is an athletic combo forward for the Cavs who hasn't done much.

Of that list, you would clearly prefer Gortat over Gomes and you can't really criticize Ainge for taking undersized power forwards then say he should have taken Chuck Hayes.  Amir Johnson has much more upside, but I can understand passing on a HS kid.

Fun fact that is probably related to Gomes playing on bad teams: Among players drafted in the second round of the 2005 NBA draft, Gomes has the most games played and rebounds per game and is second only to Monta Ellis in ppg.

Of the several power forwards drafted after Glen Davis in 2007 (who, perhaps ironically, include Stephane Lasme), the players who have made the most impact in the NBA are Dominic McGuire and Chris Richard.

The power forwards drafted behind Harangody are Ryan Reid, Derrick Caracter, and Dwayne Collins.  If the late second round is just a crap shoot, then Harangody has about a one-in-four chance of ending up the best player out of that group.  Given Ainge's track record, then Harangody probably has something more like a 35-40% probability of being the best of those late draft 4's.

[pablohoney]

Gody could actually make Baby expendable at the trade deadline. 

No, he can't. Davis is a significantly better player.

Since when does that matter.   Realistically JO is a better defender, better at taking charges, better at blocking shots and a better low post option than Baby.  So when Perk comes back and JO becomes backup to KG..... Baby's role diminishes.   The role of mobile PF with outside shot can be filled by Gody.

Thus making Baby - who will likely be lost at end of season anyway due to team's plan to preserve cap space in 2 years - very much tradeable.

I like Baby and always have.  But business is business.

[pablohoney]

I still don't understand why Ainge fills our roster with undersized 4's. Aside Garnett and Al Jefferson's short stint in green, all of our power forwards have been undersized hustle players. Baby, now Harangody, Gomes, can even go back to the days of Brandon Hunter.

Here are the power forwards drafted after Gomes.  Belgian Axel Hervelle, who remains in Europe.  Lawrence Roberts, who spent two seasons with Memphis and is now in Europe.  Amir Johnson, who was turning pro straight out of high school.  Marcin Gortat, listed as a PF/C, and I think we all would prefer the Polish Hammer to Gomes.  Uros Slokar, who saw only garbage minutes with Toronto before going back to Europe.

Undrafted power forwards that year who have spent time in the NBA include: The even shorter Chuck Hayes, who plays well for Houston.  Journeyman Josh Powell, now with his sixth team in seven seasons.  Shavlik Randolph.  Jawad Williams is an athletic combo forward for the Cavs who hasn't done much.

Of that list, you would clearly prefer Gortat over Gomes and you can't really criticize Ainge for taking undersized power forwards then say he should have taken Chuck Hayes.  Amir Johnson has much more upside, but I can understand passing on a HS kid.

Fun fact that is probably related to Gomes playing on bad teams: Among players drafted in the second round of the 2005 NBA draft, Gomes has the most games played and rebounds per game and is second only to Monta Ellis in ppg.

Of the several power forwards drafted after Glen Davis in 2007 (who, perhaps ironically, include Stephane Lasme), the players who have made the most impact in the NBA are Dominic McGuire and Chris Richard.

The power forwards drafted behind Harangody are Ryan Reid, Derrick Caracter, and Dwayne Collins.  If the late second round is just a crap shoot, then Harangody has about a one-in-four chance of ending up the best player out of that group.  Given Ainge's track record, then Harangody probably has something more like a 35-40% probability of being the best of those late draft 4's.

Ainge tried to take Amir Johnson in second round but couldn't get out of promise to Orien Greene honorably, so kept his word rather than take the guy he really wanted but didn't expect to be there.

[Chris]

I still don't understand why Ainge fills our roster with undersized 4's. Aside Garnett and Al Jefferson's short stint in green, all of our power forwards have been undersized hustle players. Baby, now Harangody, Gomes, can even go back to the days of Brandon Hunter.

Here are the power forwards drafted after Gomes.  Belgian Axel Hervelle, who remains in Europe.  Lawrence Roberts, who spent two seasons with Memphis and is now in Europe.  Amir Johnson, who was turning pro straight out of high school.  Marcin Gortat, listed as a PF/C, and I think we all would prefer the Polish Hammer to Gomes.  Uros Slokar, who saw only garbage minutes with Toronto before going back to Europe.

Undrafted power forwards that year who have spent time in the NBA include: The even shorter Chuck Hayes, who plays well for Houston.  Journeyman Josh Powell, now with his sixth team in seven seasons.  Shavlik Randolph.  Jawad Williams is an athletic combo forward for the Cavs who hasn't done much.

Of that list, you would clearly prefer Gortat over Gomes and you can't really criticize Ainge for taking undersized power forwards then say he should have taken Chuck Hayes.  Amir Johnson has much more upside, but I can understand passing on a HS kid.

Fun fact that is probably related to Gomes playing on bad teams: Among players drafted in the second round of the 2005 NBA draft, Gomes has the most games played and rebounds per game and is second only to Monta Ellis in ppg.

Of the several power forwards drafted after Glen Davis in 2007 (who, perhaps ironically, include Stephane Lasme), the players who have made the most impact in the NBA are Dominic McGuire and Chris Richard.

The power forwards drafted behind Harangody are Ryan Reid, Derrick Caracter, and Dwayne Collins.  If the late second round is just a crap shoot, then Harangody has about a one-in-four chance of ending up the best player out of that group.  Given Ainge's track record, then Harangody probably has something more like a 35-40% probability of being the best of those late draft 4's.

Ainge tried to take Amir Johnson in second round but couldn't get out of promise to Orien Greene honorably, so kept his word rather than take the guy he really wanted but didn't expect to be there.

Yup.  Although lets not paint it up too much as Ainge just being a standup guy.  Keeping that promise was crucial to maintaining relations with agents.  Based on some of the signings the last few years, I think we saw how things like that have paid off.

[thirstyboots18]

Gody could actually make Baby expendable at the trade deadline. 

No, he can't. Davis is a significantly better player.

He is right now, anyway...I see Luke backing up PP, probably behind Marquis.  He is like Scal in that he seems to be willing to do whatever is asked of him.  Better rebounder and scorer, though...

[kozlodoev]

Gody could actually make Baby expendable at the trade deadline. 

No, he can't. Davis is a significantly better player.

Since when does that matter.   Realistically JO is a better defender, better at taking charges, better at blocking shots and a better low post option than Baby.  So when Perk comes back and JO becomes backup to KG..... Baby's role diminishes.   The role of mobile PF with outside shot can be filled by Gody.

Thus making Baby - who will likely be lost at end of season anyway due to team's plan to preserve cap space in 2 years - very much tradeable.

I like Baby and always have.  But business is business.

What you're describing is not business. It's called "Way to fix something that isn't broken".

Aside from the fact that every single of our big men outside of Davis is an injury waiting to happen, you also don't know how good Perkins will be when he comes back. And given that you're not going to "bait" anything significant with a half-season rental of Glen Davis, I don't expect him to go anywhere.

For that matter, cap space is cap space, but you'll still need players. And given that Garnett and Allen will be off the books, I don't think the cap savings on Davis' contract are so significant.

[Chris]

Gody could actually make Baby expendable at the trade deadline. 

No, he can't. Davis is a significantly better player.

Since when does that matter.   Realistically JO is a better defender, better at taking charges, better at blocking shots and a better low post option than Baby.  So when Perk comes back and JO becomes backup to KG..... Baby's role diminishes.   The role of mobile PF with outside shot can be filled by Gody.

Thus making Baby - who will likely be lost at end of season anyway due to team's plan to preserve cap space in 2 years - very much tradeable.

I like Baby and always have.  But business is business.

What you're describing is not business. It's called "Way to fix something that isn't broken".

Aside from the fact that every single of our big men outside of Davis is an injury waiting to happen, you also don't know how good Perkins will be when he comes back. And given that you're not going to "bait" anything significant with a half-season rental of Glen Davis, I don't expect him to go anywhere.

For that matter, cap space is cap space, but you'll still need players. And given that Garnett and Allen will be off the books, I don't think the cap savings on Davis' contract are so significant.

Well, I think the chances of them resigning both Davis and Perk this offseason are incredibly slim.  They both will be looking for sizable raises, and the C's will already have KG, JO, Shaq, Semih, and Luke locked up through next season.  While they may keep one of those two, it is unlikely they will be willing to open up the coffers for both of them.

So, given that, if they are all healthy come February (I know, a big if), and if Luke and/or Semih prove they can provide NBA quality depth, then it does make business sense to try to get what you can for them before they walk, and potentially upgrade another position. 

Now, Danny is certainly not going to give them away just for the sake of it, but if the right deal presents itself, then I think he will be all over it.

[pearljammer10]

I definitely think Baby will be traded at some point this season. I even think that Perkins will be thrown into that deal. Both of these guys will want extensions at the end of this season. The Celtics will listen to and probably offer Perk a contract. Davis is going to be looking for something he doesnt deserve because he is just that type of player. We should get what we can for him, whether it be a young guy who can help out the bench for a few years after our window closes, or a draft pick to give us some potentials to groom for a couple years.

[Greenbean]

I definitely think Baby will be traded at some point this season. I even think that Perkins will be thrown into that deal. Both of these guys will want extensions at the end of this season. The Celtics will listen to and probably offer Perk a contract. Davis is going to be looking for something he doesnt deserve because he is just that type of player. We should get what we can for him, whether it be a young guy who can help out the bench for a few years after our window closes, or a draft pick to give us some potentials to groom for a couple years.

You may be right but it depends on Baby's play. If he is playing well enough and the team is playing well, I dont think we should trade him just because we dont think we can/will resign him.

[Surferdad]

...
Harangody has a high basketball IQ. What some fail to understand is that the art of rebounding heavily involves basketball IQ. It is not solely predicated on hustle. Harangody's ability to bang in the post for second chance points and versatility in terms of range on offense reminds me of Ryan Gomes. Harangody may actually be more mobile, because he seems comfortable as a perimeter player, whereas Gomes is kind of limited to spot up duty as a long distance scorer.
...

I think the Gomes comparison is a very good one. They are both 3/4 tweeners, guys who played the 4 in college but are a bit undersized in the pros yet not quite quick enough for the 3.  Gody seems to be a better outside shooter now than Gomes was as a rookie (but give Ryan credit for working on his outside shot to the point where it is respectable).  They are both high BBIQ players and scrappers who have a nose for the ball.

This board is so fickle.  During camp, people were already calling Harangody a bust. Now that he's had a couple of good pre-season games against scrubs, he is being annointed as a regular rotation guy.  The truth is probably somewhere in between.  Expect him to spend plenty of time up in Maine and probably shuttle back and forth depending on injuries in the front court.  At this point, I see him as a journeyman who may catch on as a rotation player (but maybe not with the C's) who could perhaps start with some team.  In other words, he is the next Ryan Gomes.

I dont understand how people lump the whole board together like everyone has the same opinion. Some people said he was a bust while many others liked what they saw from the summer league. Im sure for the most part people have stuck to their original opinions.If you see two opposite opinions being vocalized over time it doesnt mean that the board is "fickle", it just means you are seeing two different groups of people vocalize their opinions at different times.
...

Well actually, that would be my definition of the board being fickle.  Of course, individuals are generally not changing their minds (though that hasn't been proven either).  All I'm saying is that those who didn't like Luke early on are not vocalizing that now, or at least not admitting they have changed their minds.  So basically we agree.  I guess it's my bad for giving the board as a whole a human element.  Even so it's apparent that Luke-lovers are now the more vocal ones, and I just caution folks not to jump to a conclusion that Luke has established himself and we can now, for example, think about trading Baby.  It's way too early and like I said, the truth about Luke is probably somewhere in between.

[billysan]

The thing that will help keep Harangody in the league is being able to hit that spot up jumper. The rebounds, hustle and BBIQ will all help as well. I rhink he eventually goes to Maine for a couple of stints to keep sharp and is likely a star along with Avery Bradley until we have an injury or suspension where we need a body.

My feeling is that with Luke, Semih, Stephane as end of the bench insurance bigs, all Doc is really asking of them is a minimum of mistakes. If they can set picks, body up and contribute something when Perk, KG, JO or Shaq is not available then Pierce, Ray and Rondo can carry the offence.

It is not so much being a scorer or lockdown defender as it is being able to play relatively mistake free ball when called upon. We have guys coming off the bench in Delonte, Nat, BBD and Daniels that will game changers if we need them.

[Jevi]

Gody could actually make Baby expendable at the trade deadline. 

No, he can't. Davis is a significantly better player.

Since when does that matter.   Realistically JO is a better defender, better at taking charges, better at blocking shots and a better low post option than Baby.  So when Perk comes back and JO becomes backup to KG..... Baby's role diminishes.   The role of mobile PF with outside shot can be filled by Gody.

Thus making Baby - who will likely be lost at end of season anyway due to team's plan to preserve cap space in 2 years - very much tradeable.

I like Baby and always have.  But business is business.

What you're describing is not business. It's called "Way to fix something that isn't broken".

Aside from the fact that every single of our big men outside of Davis is an injury waiting to happen, you also don't know how good Perkins will be when he comes back. And given that you're not going to "bait" anything significant with a half-season rental of Glen Davis, I don't expect him to go anywhere.

For that matter, cap space is cap space, but you'll still need players. And given that Garnett and Allen will be off the books, I don't think the cap savings on Davis' contract are so significant.

Baby's perfect health is not a good enough reason why he should be here. In 2 years Baby has been healthy watching teams celebrate in front of him at seasons end. Most of you wonder what I would of wanted him to do? Hurricane Gody shown you precisely what should have been done in that same scenario. Luke is 6'7" two inches shorter than Baby, and collected 12 rebounds. Most importantly the other 4 players shot the ball well enough to come all the way back. Boys and girls that's called good spacing. Ask Rasheed how that can help him and the other 4 starters get a 13 point lead in the Finals. Plus, when in a deficit, you need a player, who after defending, will rebound and then start the fast break. Don't even begin to act like Baby does anything remotely similar. Luke surprised me by doing just that more than once. Baby is a scorer, he's not versatile to do more than that. DA should make the move, get rid of him now(cough Randy Moss). What I'm describing is good business, It's called "Way to fix something that will eventually break when you need it most".