Stephane Lasme

[no kidding]

Well, first of all, the regular season doesn't matter that much.  We'll win 55 games with Von Wafer backing up Pierce. 

Second, there may indeed be gems getting bought out in February.  And given my first point, we can wait until then. 

Finally, when Perk comes back, we can possibly afford to trade Baby.  And he might be able to net us a very nice backup 3. 

Even if I agreed with all your points, they're no argument for why the Celtics should take Wafer over Lasme in the here and now.

Besides, recent history indicates the Celts aren't particularly good at incorporating new players into their line-ups late in the season.

[clover]

... the simple fact of the matter is that as long as Pierce and Daniels are healthy, [Lasme's] not going to sniff the court (in fact, he likely won't sniff the active roster). 

And while he might be nice as for a few game stretch when Pierce or Daniels undoubtedly misses a few games, I think if Daniels goes out long term, Ainge would likely look elsewhere for help at the 3...

Daniels is brittle and Pierce isn't getting any younger. Yet some think that in a pinch, there's always somebody hanging around that Ainge can easily get that would fill in just fine. (Just as Michael Finley did so wonderfully last year.)

The whole thing leaves me scratching my head.

Well, first of all, the regular season doesn't matter that much.  We'll win 55 games with Von Wafer backing up Pierce. 

Second, there may indeed be gems getting bought out in February.  And given my first point, we can wait until then. 

Finally, when Perk comes back, we can possibly afford to trade Baby.  And he might be able to net us a very nice backup 3. 

I think they found out last year how much their regular season record can count when it comes to seeding.

[Roy H.]

Even if I agreed with all your points, they're no argument for why the Celtics should take Wafer over Lasme in the here and now.

There are plenty of reasons to prefer Wafer over Lasme.  The three biggest are that Wafer is a much better shooter, he's a better penetrator who gets to the line, and he plays a position of need, especially when we don't have an experienced backup SG for the first 10 games of the season.

I'm a bit puzzled why people are so down on Wafer, and so high on Lasme.  If anything, I think it's a fairly close call.  Wafer started out slowly, but has looked fine since.  Lasme has had a couple of very good games, but a couple where he didn't do anything at all.  In my mind, they're pretty close.

[kozlodoev]

I don't know. Wafer has never "looked good" to me. He just had days when his shot was falling and days that it wasn't, but he didn't look as a part of the system on either of those.

[More Banners]

Even if I agreed with all your points, they're no argument for why the Celtics should take Wafer over Lasme in the here and now.

There are plenty of reasons to prefer Wafer over Lasme.  The three biggest are that Wafer is a much better shooter, he's a better penetrator who gets to the line, and he plays a position of need, especially when we don't have an experienced backup SG for the first 10 games of the season.

I'm a bit puzzled why people are so down on Wafer, and so high on Lasme.  If anything, I think it's a fairly close call.  Wafer started out slowly, but has looked fine since.  Lasme has had a couple of very good games, but a couple where he didn't do anything at all.  In my mind, they're pretty close.

I haven't been able to see much preseason action.

Is Wafer playing within the offense?  I saw him wave off Quisy in a game so he could "get his."  It was right after a play in which Quisy did an iso from the top of the key.  Wafer tried the same thing...didn't work.  Quisy didn't look happy (hands in the air in the Edited.  Profanity and masked profanity are against forum rules and may result in discipline. motion).

Is Lasme playing within the team concept on both ends?  I suspect (based on comments in the blog) that he has been.

[guava_wrench]

Well, first of all, the regular season doesn't matter that much.  We'll win 55 games with Von Wafer backing up Pierce. 

Second, there may indeed be gems getting bought out in February.  And given my first point, we can wait until then. 

Finally, when Perk comes back, we can possibly afford to trade Baby.  And he might be able to net us a very nice backup 3. 

Even if I agreed with all your points, they're no argument for why the Celtics should take Wafer over Lasme in the here and now.

Besides, recent history indicates the Celts aren't particularly good at incorporating new players into their line-ups late in the season.

PJ Brown.

It really depends upon the kind of player. I to would be scared to incorporate a new shooter in February, since shooters seem to me the most likely to have issues fitting into the system without camp.

[Roy H.]

Even if I agreed with all your points, they're no argument for why the Celtics should take Wafer over Lasme in the here and now.

There are plenty of reasons to prefer Wafer over Lasme.  The three biggest are that Wafer is a much better shooter, he's a better penetrator who gets to the line, and he plays a position of need, especially when we don't have an experienced backup SG for the first 10 games of the season.

I'm a bit puzzled why people are so down on Wafer, and so high on Lasme.  If anything, I think it's a fairly close call.  Wafer started out slowly, but has looked fine since.  Lasme has had a couple of very good games, but a couple where he didn't do anything at all.  In my mind, they're pretty close.

I haven't been able to see much preseason action.

Is Wafer playing within the offense?  I saw him wave off Quisy in a game so he could "get his."  It was right after a play in which Quisy did an iso from the top of the key.  Wafer tried the same thing...didn't work.  Quisy didn't look happy (hands in the air in the **** motion).

Is Lasme playing within the team concept on both ends?  I suspect (based on comments in the blog) that he has been.

I don't think you can really go by the comments you read on the blog.  In the first game they played, Lasme looked fantastic, and Wafer struggled for a couple of games, picking up a couple of silly technicals and having poor body language.  That caused a lot of fans to throw their support behind Lasme, and to write off Wafer.  The comments you're seeing have a pretty healthy bias behind them.

From my point of view, Wafer has been decent offensively, playing within the system.  He can get to the basket fluidly, and he has a nice stroke from the outside that adds a needed element to our offense.  His defense, on the other hand, has fluctuated between decent and terrible.

If people like Lasme better than Wafer, I understand.  Lasme has that "dirt dog" mentality that fans like, and we could use some depth at SF (if Lasme can move over).  However, I don't think the gap is a very big one at all between the two.  They're both guys who are 11th to 15th men on a good team, who are very unlikely to contribute anything significant to the team.  I just think that Wafer's skill set is more likely to prove useful in an actual game than Lasme's would.  Wafer can at least get us some points at the end of quarters or games; what is Lasme going to be able to contribute in limited minutes?

[no kidding]

As I've said, I'm not convinced at this point who's more valuable to the team, Wafer or Lasme.

But Wafer's offensive prowess seems to be a sometime thing. When he's not hitting his jumper, he seems to contribute little if anything. He just floats about. Meanwhile, Lasme's defense is a constant thing. And that's what needed; a reliable defensive presence that supports the rest of the team. Even his offensive effort, joustling about, aggressively looking for inside rebounds, is a constant. And that's why I lean towards Lasme in this discussion.

[Jon]

Well, first of all, the regular season doesn't matter that much.  We'll win 55 games with Von Wafer backing up Pierce. 

Second, there may indeed be gems getting bought out in February.  And given my first point, we can wait until then. 

Finally, when Perk comes back, we can possibly afford to trade Baby.  And he might be able to net us a very nice backup 3. 

Even if I agreed with all your points, they're no argument for why the Celtics should take Wafer over Lasme in the here and now.

Besides, recent history indicates the Celts aren't particularly good at incorporating new players into their line-ups late in the season.

It's not about Wafer.  I started this whole debate simply saying how stupid it is to argue about Lasme.  So I suppose I'm becoming a bit of a hypocrite myself.  

I agree with you.  I'm not advocating Wafer.  I'd probably take Lasme over him right now.  My point simply is what Roy just said: the chances of Lasme contributing this year are nearly nil.  So my point simply was that to debate about whether he can play the "3" or not really doesn't matter, because he's not going to be given the opportunity.  

Quite frankly, if Pierce or Daniels goes out for a long time, Ainge is likely going to do one of the things I suggested (make a trade or pickup a buy out).  

[Vermont Green]

I think this is going to go down with Wafer on the active roster for the first 10 games for sure and Lasme goes to Maine.  The 11th game is on Nov 17th.  Wafer is needed until then and I think will be given every opportunity to show he should stick.  If by Nov 17th, he still hasn't shown enough, the Celtics will need to reevaluate.

One arguement seems to be that we need another bigger wing in case MD gets hurt (which he will) but if our answer is Lasme, I think we are in trouble.  If MD is injured for any length of time, I think we will have to trade Nate and/or Davis to get someone (which would be unfortunate I believe).

[Q_FBE]

From The Point Forward blog:
Could a 27-year-old from Gabon whom Doc Rivers had barely heard of two weeks ago really unseat Von Wafer for the final roster spot in Boston? Another version of that same question: What does Boston need more, a potential scoring guard off the bench or a second wing player (after Marquis Daniels) to back up Paul Pierce? Related question: Should the fact that Delonte West will be suspended for the first 10 games factor into this decision — presumably giving Wafer an edge over Stephane Lasme – or is that sort of thinking short-sighted? Final related question: Does any of the above matter to the title hopes of the 2010-11 Celtics?

Everybody keeps talking about this kid being potentially the next lock down defender. So I took some time to scour the NBA sites and found no information about the 27 year old rookie.

Finally I researched www.basketballreference.com and found:

http://www.basketballreference.com/players/playerpage.htm?ilkid=LasmeSt01


He had a nice 9 pt, 9 reb, 2 blk game in 27 minutes against Memphis in 2008 while playing for Miami.

Other than that he has played in Europe and played for Maccabi-Tel Aviv.

I still think he is a long shot to make the team but he could help out in the near term backing up Paul Pierce at SF with energy plays off the bench.

[mgent]

Even if I agreed with all your points, they're no argument for why the Celtics should take Wafer over Lasme in the here and now.

There are plenty of reasons to prefer Wafer over Lasme.  The three biggest are that Wafer is a much better shooter, he's a better penetrator who gets to the line, and he plays a position of need, especially when we don't have an experienced backup SG for the first 10 games of the season.

I'm a bit puzzled why people are so down on Wafer, and so high on Lasme.  If anything, I think it's a fairly close call.  Wafer started out slowly, but has looked fine since.  Lasme has had a couple of very good games, but a couple where he didn't do anything at all.  In my mind, they're pretty close.

I haven't been able to see much preseason action.

Is Wafer playing within the offense?  I saw him wave off Quisy in a game so he could "get his."  It was right after a play in which Quisy did an iso from the top of the key.  Wafer tried the same thing...didn't work.  Quisy didn't look happy (hands in the air in the **** motion).

Is Lasme playing within the team concept on both ends?  I suspect (based on comments in the blog) that he has been.

I don't think you can really go by the comments you read on the blog.  In the first game they played, Lasme looked fantastic, and Wafer struggled for a couple of games, picking up a couple of silly technicals and having poor body language.  That caused a lot of fans to throw their support behind Lasme, and to write off Wafer.  The comments you're seeing have a pretty healthy bias behind them.

From my point of view, Wafer has been decent offensively, playing within the system.  He can get to the basket fluidly, and he has a nice stroke from the outside that adds a needed element to our offense.  His defense, on the other hand, has fluctuated between decent and terrible.

If people like Lasme better than Wafer, I understand.  Lasme has that "dirt dog" mentality that fans like, and we could use some depth at SF (if Lasme can move over).  However, I don't think the gap is a very big one at all between the two.  They're both guys who are 11th to 15th men on a good team, who are very unlikely to contribute anything significant to the team.  I just think that Wafer's skill set is more likely to prove useful in an actual game than Lasme's would.  Wafer can at least get us some points at the end of quarters or games; what is Lasme going to be able to contribute in limited minutes?

Defense.  Something Wafer isn't great at.  Neither is likely to get a lot of touches, so I'd rather go with the guy who provides better defense, rebounding, shot blocking and can get some hustle points without having plays run for him.  Typically those guys are more consistent in limited minutes than shooters no?

Also, how exactly does Wafer better fit a position of need?  We've got Delonte and Bradley, and both Marquis and Nate are natural SGs.  What we don't have is a large SF.  An extra shooter is always nice, but with the shooting we already have I'd rather have the defender at the position where we only have 1 injury-prone backup.  Anyways if we need a 3 that can hit a shot there's always Harangody.

It is a close race and at this point I have 0 clue who's making it.

[Meadowlark_Scal]

How soon they forget.....last year....no rebounders, = no rebounds = no championship...wafer can shoot sometimes...but a rebounder rebounds all the time....Lasme rebounds like LEON POWE...remember what he did to LA....teams hate the rebounder, why...you ever play bball....he gets the rebound, then he scores or you foul him, he keeps the ball alive....a shooter, well he shoots, then he is done....Lasme blocks shots, defends, and reboundind is at BOTH ENDS, shooting, oh, ya, just one end i guess......

[Roy H.]

How soon they forget.....last year....no rebounders, = no rebounds = no championship...wafer can shoot sometimes...but a rebounder rebounds all the time....Lasme rebounds like LEON POWE...remember what he did to LA....teams hate the rebounder, why...you ever play bball....he gets the rebound, then he scores or you foul him, he keeps the ball alive....a shooter, well he shoots, then he is done....Lasme blocks shots, defends, and reboundind is at BOTH ENDS, shooting, oh, ya, just one end i guess......

Lasme is a much, much worse rebounder than Leon Powe.  In his Boston career, Powe never averaged below 10 rebounds per 36 minutes.  Lasme has averaged about 7.6 rebounds per 36 minutes this preseason, largely in garbage minutes against second- and third-string players. The only big man on our team who rebounded at a poorer rate last year was Rasheed Wallace, who was largely a perimeter player.

Lasme has had more personal fouls than rebounds in three of the five games this far.  I don't see him as the dominant rebounder that you do.

[indeedproceed]

How soon they forget.....last year....no rebounders, = no rebounds = no championship...wafer can shoot sometimes...but a rebounder rebounds all the time....Lasme rebounds like LEON POWE...remember what he did to LA....teams hate the rebounder, why...you ever play bball....he gets the rebound, then he scores or you foul him, he keeps the ball alive....a shooter, well he shoots, then he is done....Lasme blocks shots, defends, and reboundind is at BOTH ENDS, shooting, oh, ya, just one end i guess......

Lasme is a much, much worse rebounder than Leon Powe.  In his Boston career, Powe never averaged below 10 rebounds per 36 minutes.  Lasme has averaged about 7.6 rebounds per 36 minutes this preseason, largely in garbage minutes against second- and third-string players. The only big man on our team who rebounded at a poorer rate last year was Rasheed Wallace, who was largely a perimeter player.

Lasme has had more personal fouls than rebounds in three of the five games this far.  I don't see him as the dominant rebounder that you do.

If Lasme resembles anyone in the NBA its not Leon Powe. Lasme is more like Thad Young, but not nearly as good.