Will we try Wafer at the three?

[lon3lytoaster]

Is there any chance Doc will decide to go with Von Wafer as the second unit's small forward? I was just thinking about it today and we played Tony Allen a good amount at SF. That actually worked surprisingly well at times. I know Wafer isn't know as a defensive stopper like TA was but they're both built in similar ways and have similar athleticism.

I know we don't typically send out five bench players at the same time but the thought of a Robinson/West/Wafer/Baby/Shaq second unit had me drooling. That's a pretty darn well rounded unit to be sporting out there for times. Loaded with shooting, aleticism and even some post scoring.

And can you imagine the screens/picks that Davis and Shaq would be setting for open threes and midrange shots? No would would be able to get around the two of them.

Am I just day dreaming here or is this a legitimate option for us? Marquis Daniels just isn't going to do it for us, I don't think and neither will Harrangody.. What other choice do we have?

[Roy H.]

I think Doc will try it (assuming Wafer makes the team).  I also think that Doc will leave Ray out there with the second team a lot, and will use him as the de facto backup SF, much like he did at times last season.

[2short]

Prior to surgery for injury Marquis Daniels was our best bench player last  year.  If he plays at that level I cannot see Wafer taking his minutes.  That said Daniels is injury prone and we would have to be ready for someone else.  I am hoping Gaffney shows nba level defense and those minutes would go to him.  He has the length we need at the posistion, string bean yes, but he could just give us those limited minutes, fill the lane on fast break, box his man out and play d.

[lon3lytoaster]

I think Doc will try it (assuming Wafer makes the team).  I also think that Doc will leave Ray out there with the second team a lot, and will use him as the de facto backup SF, much like he did at times last season.

I don't think there's any question Wafer will make the team. Same goes for Delonte, so that shouldn't be an issues. Ideally, I'd only like to see Ray be playing 30 or so minutes until the playoffs. I'm hoping that's a realistic expectation. As I see it, with a couple quality backups behind him there should be no reason to play him much more than 30 a night.. Maybe even a little less. We probably wouldn't even need his shooting much if we were playing the 3-guard offense like that, with Nate, West and Wafer.

Prior to surgery for injury Marquis Daniels was our best bench player last  year.  If he plays at that level I cannot see Wafer taking his minutes.  That said Daniels is injury prone and we would have to be ready for someone else.  I am hoping Gaffney shows nba level defense and those minutes would go to him.  He has the length we need at the posistion, string bean yes, but he could just give us those limited minutes, fill the lane on fast break, box his man out and play d.

I don't know about that.. I've seen enough out of Marquis to have considered him our best bench player at any time. Overall, he was quite a big disappointment last season. Plus, with Shaq out there we're really going to want to surround the big fellas with shooters. I'm going to go out on a limb and say Von Wafer might not be a better player, but certainly a better fit.

[kozlodoev]

Plus, with Shaq out there we're really going to want to surround the big fellas with shooters.

If you put the ball the Daniels' hands, then you have Shaq and 3 shooters on the floor at all times.

[lon3lytoaster]

Plus, with Shaq out there we're really going to want to surround the big fellas with shooters.

If you put the ball the Daniels' hands, then you have Shaq and 3 shooters on the floor at all times.

How so? Are you counting Davis as a shooter or am I missing something? Regardless, I'm not sold on making Daniels the point forward. I think Nate would do a fine enough job running the plays. Plus, defenses will have someone they could easily sag off on.

Just a couple cents.

[slamtheking]

Plus, with Shaq out there we're really going to want to surround the big fellas with shooters.

If you put the ball the Daniels' hands, then you have Shaq and 3 shooters on the floor at all times.

How so? Are you counting Davis as a shooter or am I missing something? Regardless, I'm not sold on making Daniels the point forward. I think Nate would do a fine enough job running the plays. Plus, defenses will have someone they could easily sag off on.

Just a couple cents.

One thing to consider though.  a line-up of Nate, West, Daniels, BBD and Shaq will most likely be seeing their playing time against other second units.  That gives the C's the luxury of 3 guys that can handle the ball--particularly on a fast break (which we're more likely to get now that Shaq will be on the boards and knows what an outlet pass looks like). 

Daniels can still score.  He's mostly in the paint and with drives which offers a different type of scorer that the other team needs to defend.  Defenses may sag off him a bit if he doesn't have the ball but if the ball is swung to him and he has space to drive, something good will come from it.

Having Wafer, Daniels and West on the bench offers Doc a lot of options for solid NBA-level players he can rotate into the game behind Ray and PP.  Each combo offering a different look to the opposition. I'm feeling very positive about the bench this year.  Plenty of talent and depth.

[lon3lytoaster]

Plus, with Shaq out there we're really going to want to surround the big fellas with shooters.

If you put the ball the Daniels' hands, then you have Shaq and 3 shooters on the floor at all times.

How so? Are you counting Davis as a shooter or am I missing something? Regardless, I'm not sold on making Daniels the point forward. I think Nate would do a fine enough job running the plays. Plus, defenses will have someone they could easily sag off on.

Just a couple cents.

One thing to consider though.  a line-up of Nate, West, Daniels, BBD and Shaq will most likely be seeing their playing time against other second units.  That gives the C's the luxury of 3 guys that can handle the ball--particularly on a fast break (which we're more likely to get now that Shaq will be on the boards and knows what an outlet pass looks like). 

Daniels can still score.  He's mostly in the paint and with drives which offers a different type of scorer that the other team needs to defend.  Defenses may sag off him a bit if he doesn't have the ball but if the ball is swung to him and he has space to drive, something good will come from it.

Having Wafer, Daniels and West on the bench offers Doc a lot of options for solid NBA-level players he can rotate into the game behind Ray and PP.  Each combo offering a different look to the opposition. I'm feeling very positive about the bench this year.  Plenty of talent and depth.

You made a couple solid points there, and I have to agree with you on the overall depth of the team this year. Looking back on our bench last year I was surprised to see how bad it was in comparison. This is easily our best bench since 2008, maybe even a little better.

At least we can actually debate who should be playing when and where this year.

[moiso]

I think Doc will try it (assuming Wafer makes the team).  I also think that Doc will leave Ray out there with the second team a lot, and will use him as the de facto backup SF, much like he did at times last season.

Doc seems to use Ray with the 1st team, 2nd team, 3rd team...  I really hope this is finally the year when Doc limits his minutes but once again I'm not counting on it.  Hopefully Wafer or Daniels will be playing at a level to deserve consistent minutes.  I don't really care which one it is, but Marquise better crank up the effort if he wants to win the job.

[wiley]

Is there any chance Doc will decide to go with Von Wafer as the second unit's small forward? I was just thinking about it today and we played Tony Allen a good amount at SF. That actually worked surprisingly well at times. I know Wafer isn't know as a defensive stopper like TA was but they're both built in similar ways and have similar athleticism.

I know we don't typically send out five bench players at the same time but the thought of a Robinson/West/Wafer/Baby/Shaq second unit had me drooling. That's a pretty darn well rounded unit to be sporting out there for times. Loaded with shooting, aleticism and even some post scoring.

And can you imagine the screens/picks that Davis and Shaq would be setting for open threes and midrange shots? No would would be able to get around the two of them.

Am I just day dreaming here or is this a legitimate option for us? Marquis Daniels just isn't going to do it for us, I don't think and neither will Harrangody.. What other choice do we have?

I think hope and pray that this is what will happen.  Boston 2010 is a perfect place for a basketball player to get his head on straight and come into his own....I know if I was being glared at simultaneously by Garnett, Shaq, Pierce and Ray Allen, I'd put my neuroses aside pretty [dang] quick.  And I think Von Wafer will do that and then simply steal the job of backup SF from Marquis, mainly with offense but also by showing great defensive effort....

I think this potential lineup would rock the house with a combination of intangibles and insanity.....Nate is insane.  Delonte is intense and will throw his body all over the place.  Wafer will hot dog.  Baby will be his showman self.  Shaq will combine physicality and meanness with showboating and hot dogging, and it will all work because they'll find a way to get it done defensively.  Normally I go for a more serious approach to the game, but I think the emotion bottled up in these guys is genuine, so it will light a fire for the team and the crowd.....

Delonte is a much more natural backup PG than Nate, who simply isn't great as a PG.  Let's face it.  So the ball will be more in Delonte's hands than Nate's imo.   Then they swap on defense.  Delonte, while a good offensive player, is not at all great offensively, which is why having him and Marquis playing together imo will not pan out as a regular lineup....I think the unit will need Wafer's shooting....If Wafer does well in Boston, grows up, matures, etc...he can be Ray's eventual replacement at SG.

The most exciting thing that could happen to the Celtics in the first half of the season is if Avery Bradley came in after missing summer and training camp, and simply outperformed Delonte and Nate.  But I think this will not happen, and even if he did it in practice, I'm not sure Doc would green light him for big minutes....I just don't see Bradely getting many minutes this year unless there are injuries.

The only way Wafer won't steal Marquis' minutes is if he doesn't have his head on straight.

Agree with Moiso too.  Time to limit Ray's minutes...

[slamtheking]

Plus, with Shaq out there we're really going to want to surround the big fellas with shooters.

If you put the ball the Daniels' hands, then you have Shaq and 3 shooters on the floor at all times.

How so? Are you counting Davis as a shooter or am I missing something? Regardless, I'm not sold on making Daniels the point forward. I think Nate would do a fine enough job running the plays. Plus, defenses will have someone they could easily sag off on.

Just a couple cents.

One thing to consider though.  a line-up of Nate, West, Daniels, BBD and Shaq will most likely be seeing their playing time against other second units.  That gives the C's the luxury of 3 guys that can handle the ball--particularly on a fast break (which we're more likely to get now that Shaq will be on the boards and knows what an outlet pass looks like). 

Daniels can still score.  He's mostly in the paint and with drives which offers a different type of scorer that the other team needs to defend.  Defenses may sag off him a bit if he doesn't have the ball but if the ball is swung to him and he has space to drive, something good will come from it.

Having Wafer, Daniels and West on the bench offers Doc a lot of options for solid NBA-level players he can rotate into the game behind Ray and PP.  Each combo offering a different look to the opposition. I'm feeling very positive about the bench this year.  Plenty of talent and depth.

You made a couple solid points there, and I have to agree with you on the overall depth of the team this year. Looking back on our bench last year I was surprised to see how bad it was in comparison. This is easily our best bench since 2008, maybe even a little better.

At least we can actually debate who should be playing when and where this year.

I know it's premature since camp hasn't officially started and we won't have the full complement of bench players for the first 10 games this year but I think the bench will be better than in '08.  Doc has 11 guys that can justify court time (at least until we see them play.  things may shake out differently after that).  Once Perk is back, Doc would have a full 12 man roster of legit NBA-caliber players to use in a game.  Very potent team.

[snively]

In the event of an injury to Quis, yes.

If this roster makes it to the playoffs untouched, I don't think either would be in the rotation though.  Delonte would take the bulk of the back-up wing minutes with Pierce or Ray guarding 3s whenever they share the floor with him. 

[Roy H.]

I think Doc will try it (assuming Wafer makes the team).  I also think that Doc will leave Ray out there with the second team a lot, and will use him as the de facto backup SF, much like he did at times last season.

I don't think there's any question Wafer will make the team. Same goes for Delonte, so that shouldn't be an issues.

I think it's definitely a question.  The front page has a link mentioning Wafer going to China if cut.  It's been mentioned that Danny told Wafer that he has a short leash.  The team seems to like Tony Gaffney.

I'd prefer that the Celts keep Wafer, but if he's cut, it wouldn't shock me at all.

[slamtheking]

I think Doc will try it (assuming Wafer makes the team).  I also think that Doc will leave Ray out there with the second team a lot, and will use him as the de facto backup SF, much like he did at times last season.

Roy, where did you see any mention of Wafer having a short leash?  Is there some issue where they suspect Wafer will present an issue that he'd have to be told that?
I don't think there's any question Wafer will make the team. Same goes for Delonte, so that shouldn't be an issues.

I think it's definitely a question.  The front page has a link mentioning Wafer going to China if cut.  It's been mentioned that Danny told Wafer that he has a short leash.  The team seems to like Tony Gaffney.

I'd prefer that the Celts keep Wafer, but if he's cut, it wouldn't shock me at all.

[snively]

I think Doc will try it (assuming Wafer makes the team).  I also think that Doc will leave Ray out there with the second team a lot, and will use him as the de facto backup SF, much like he did at times last season.

I don't think there's any question Wafer will make the team. Same goes for Delonte, so that shouldn't be an issues.

I think it's definitely a question.  The front page has a link mentioning Wafer going to China if cut.  It's been mentioned that Danny told Wafer that he has a short leash.  The team seems to like Tony Gaffney.

I'd prefer that the Celts keep Wafer, but if he's cut, it wouldn't shock me at all.

With Daniels' injury history and Scal's departure, Gaffney definitely has a shot, especially if Bradley has a great camp and makes Wafer look expendable.

Still, it's hard to see the C's valuing Gaffney's hustle and defensive role-playing potential over Wafer's proven ability to shoot and score in bunches, especially with all the floor spacing issues this team has struggled with.