Author Topic: CB Draft '10 Playoffs First Round Western Conference  (Read 52191 times)

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CB Draft '10 Playoffs First Round Western Conference
« on: September 13, 2010, 11:39:21 PM »

Offline Fafnir

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The Playoffs are here! All discussion and voting will be done today and this thread will be unlocked at midnight EST.

Voting will all be done via PM to CB Draft Voting. Voting will close at midnight EST Tuesday.

Please use the following format for your ballot.

*Your Name Here*
Phoenix/New Orleans
Utah/LA Clippers
Sacramento/LA Lakers
Houston/Denver

So for an example if Jeff were to vote he might send this (if he decided to vote solely on "superstars  ;)):

Jeff
Phoenix
Utah
Lakers
Denver

Here are links to the Press Conferences for each team:

Phoenix
New Orleans

Utah
LA Clippers

Sacramento
LA Lakers


Houston
Denver (note that Denver has HCA in this series)

GMs should post what their tactics would be, how they feel they'd match up, and how they'd handle their rotations. Note that HCA will be the tie-breaker if voting is tied at the end of today.

Note to GMs off playoff teams:
Quote
7. You may not vote for your own team, this is to prevent skewing of overall results by every game theory loving GM from voting themselves in first place.
This rule is a bit unclear it was meant for regular season voting, it doesn't matter in a head to head situation so feel free to list your own team as the winner. If a GM doesn't think his team will win (or fails to vote) boo to him!

Each GM team will still however only get a single vote however, I will count the first ballot I receive.
« Last Edit: September 15, 2010, 09:49:17 AM by Fafnir »

Re: CB Draft '10 Playoffs Western Conference
« Reply #1 on: September 14, 2010, 08:04:54 AM »

Offline OTART SRIEN

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1 vote for Phoenix!
And through it all she offers me protection
A lot of love and affection
Whether I'm right or wrong
And down the waterfall

Re: CB Draft '10 Playoffs Western Conference
« Reply #2 on: September 14, 2010, 08:15:26 AM »

Offline StartOrien

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Al Horford vs. Dwight Howard head-head over 12 games


Quote
Howard 19.3 points, 16.4 rebounds, 2.8 blocks, 1.7 steals

Horford 8.8 points, 7.9 rebounds, .8 blocks, .6 steals

Re: CB Draft '10 Playoffs Western Conference
« Reply #3 on: September 14, 2010, 08:28:40 AM »

Offline The Walker Wiggle

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Why New Orleans can achieve the upset: The Buccaneers are the better defensive team; shoot a better percentage from behind the arc and at the charity stripe; and still hold the edge on the glass despite Howard's league leading 13.2 rpg.

The Starting Five

Baron Davis vs. Jrue Holiday (Advantage Phoenix) However, Holiday is already a plus defender, who if he lacks Davis's strength still matches his size (6'4" with a 6"7"+ wingspan) and speed. He should be able to stay in front of Baron. (We'll concede the three point shot.) And while he's hardly the creator Davis is, he's also not the type of player Baron - a good defender who has a reputation for taking plays off - wants to guard for 30+ minutes a night, quick up the court, tough to stay in front of AND close out on. Post All-Star break Jrue posted a .49 FG% and .41 3PT%.

Eric Gordon vs. Wes Matthews (Advantage New Orleans) Matthews earned his eventual starting spot through defense but he's been given more than he can handle in Gordon. A gifted shooter with a quick release and beyond the arc range. Gordon also has a terrific first step, a nose for the basket and low center of gravity. Hampered by injuries and the Clippers malaise last season, he’s getting much need exposure as part of the National team and is due for a breakout in 2010.

Gerald Wallace vs John Salmons (Advantage New Orleans)  But don't take it from me take it from Who:

Hedo Turkoglu and/or John Salmons will not be able to be effective offensively when matched up against Gerald Wallace. Wallace is too talented and too athletic defensively for them.

Gerald Wallace is also too quick for Turkoglu (slashing offense) and too strong for Salmons (post game + slashing) so he should have a good showing offensively too. Plus, he'll build a very nice rebounding differential against either of them.

Those matchups will hurt Phoenix considerably. Limits their offense. Makes them over-reliant on Baron Davis + Antawn Jamison. Makes them vulnerable and gives New Orleans a shot at winning the series.

Salmons will take a lot of jumpers and they tend to come on his own terms, often off the dribble, sometimes at the expense of ball movement. I'll also point out since he's on a team with Dwight Howard, that he's not good at passing into the post. He's a good man to man defender but sometimes you want your small forward to cheat and help too.

Al Horford vs. Antawn Jamison (Advantage New Orleans) Jamison has as a rule played for teams that finish in the bottom 5 of the league defensively and either disappoint in the postseason or miss it entirely. Both Horford (16.4 TR%) and McDyess (16.5 TR%) will outrebound Jamison (13.4 TR%) - although Antawn is a good rebounder given how often he floats around the perimeter and releases early on the fast break. He can't defend Horford in the post or match Al's offensive efficiency. He also give Phoenix a second liability at the charity stripe (.647 FT%) which will cost in hard fought, close games.

Dwight Howard vs. DeMarcus Cousins (Advantage Phoenix) Too young and brash to concede much to Howard even as he'll be regularly outmatched on both ends. Still Cousins tends to rise to a challenge, is a phenomenal rebounder in his own right and Howard's match in size. Cousins will only see 20-25 mpg a night, will most nights use all six fouls, and will be quickly spelled by McDyess who can also draw Howard away from the hoop with his midrange jumper.

The Coach

Stan Van Gundy vs Byron Scott (Advantage New Orleans) No coach in the league is in a better position to frustrate and foil a team built around Dwight Howard. Safe to say Van Gundy knows all Howard's tendencies - maybe even better than Dwight does.

The Rotation

Hedo Turkoglu vs. Linas Kleiza (Advantage Phoenix)
Hedo Turkoglu vs. Gerald Wallace (Advantage New Orleans) Thoughts? I'm very low on Turkoglu's play so likely underrate him. On his third team in three seasons and coming off a terrible year. A great playmaker and clutch. But also a streak shooter, who struggles to contribute without the ball in his hands, and a poor man-to-man defender who plays with uneven intensity.

Raja Bell vs. Wes Matthews (Wash)
Raja Bell vs. Terrence Williams (Advantage New Orleans) Williams has an even higher upside than Matthews and can be thrilling to watch - but I don't trust his decision making in a tense playoff series or even know which position is his natural one.

Antonio McDyess vs. Greg Monroe (Advantage New Orleans)

Beno Udrih vs. Rudy Fernandez (Wash) Udrih will struggle to defend either Davis or Fernandez. On the other hand, it's absolutely a problem for Phoenix that the team has only one point guard on the roster, and their second option is a currently lost at sea two guard who's a nondescript playmaker even at his natural position. Udrih is one of the league's best reserve 1s, unselfish, a great catch and shoot player who always has his head in the game, a borderline starter and onetime NBA champion.

Linas Kleiza vs. Ed Davis (Advantage New Orleans)

Dealing with Dwight



Howard will get his. But taking a page from the Boston Celtics the Bucs are not going to double team him regardless of his effectiveness. At least he'll have to work for it and deal with a rotating cast of high intensity big men. New Orleans has plenty of size, plenty of fouls.

The Orlando Magic were anyway rarely at their best when running their offense through Howard (Who rates below average in isolation and only good in the post). His repertoire is too limited, and his decisions with the ball are often rushed. Where he's lethal is in the pick in roll. The Bucs feature a strong pick and roll defense, and are anyway all too happy to see the ball end up with the roll man Baron Davis who's a far shakier and more indiscriminate shooter than Jameer Nelson (.406 FG% .277 3P%).

Elsewhere the Bucs will stay home and force Phoenix to make jumpshots. Fun fact, Phoenix features four sub-40% shooters in its rotation (Davis, Turkoglu, Fernandez and Williams) and a fifth DeShawn Stevenson ready to come off the bench in an emergency and throw a shot off the front rim. Expect particularly chippy, physical defense by Wallace, Horford, and Bell on Jamison, Turkoglu and the Gorillas' rookies.

On offense, Crash, Gordon and Holiday will challenge Howard at the rim. And Cousins' 8.3 fouls drawn per 40 in his only college season was the highest rate of any players drafted in the past five years. But a rookie isn't going to get the reigning Defensive Player of the year into foul trouble by himself so it will have to be a team effort.
« Last Edit: September 14, 2010, 08:54:25 AM by The Walker Wiggle »

Re: CB Draft '10 Playoffs Western Conference
« Reply #4 on: September 14, 2010, 08:30:30 AM »

Online Roy H.

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In the West, I'm leaning toward all of the higher seeds, but I'm staying open-minded. 

LA Clippers:  How can you outscore Utah?

New Orleans:  How do you contain Howard?

Houston:  Can either Dalembert or Diaw stop Duncan?


I'M THE SILVERBACK GORILLA IN THIS MOTHER——— AND DON'T NONE OF YA'LL EVER FORGET IT!@ 34 minutes

Re: CB Draft '10 Playoffs Western Conference
« Reply #5 on: September 14, 2010, 08:37:49 AM »

Offline StartOrien

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Deshawn Stephenson's role on Phoenix:


Re: CB Draft '10 Playoffs Western Conference
« Reply #6 on: September 14, 2010, 08:45:27 AM »

Online Who

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I think only one team in the West has a comfortable first round series - Utah.

The other three series are very close. 

Re: CB Draft '10 Playoffs Western Conference
« Reply #7 on: September 14, 2010, 08:48:41 AM »

Offline StartOrien

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A reccomendation for next year, and a little bit of jockying for this year:

I can't stand the coach factor. I enjoy drafting them, but I hate when they're apart of the voting proccess. It's a 1 round draft. Which if your'e actually factoring in coach, gives a distinct advantage to people who pick earlier. And there's no real way to counter it.

Re: CB Draft '10 Playoffs Western Conference
« Reply #8 on: September 14, 2010, 08:48:50 AM »

Online Who

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Why New Orleans can achieve the upset: The Buccaneers are the better defensive team; shoot a better percentage from behind the arc and at the charity stripe; and still hold the edge on the glass despite Howard's league leading 13.2 rpg.

The Starting Five

Baron Davis vs. Jrue Holiday (Advantage Phoenix) However, Holiday is already a plus defender, who if he lacks Davis's strength still matches his size (6'4" with a 6"7"+ wingspan) and speed. He should be able to stay in front of Baron. (We'll concede the three point shot.) And while he's hardly the creator Davis is, he's also not the type of player Baron - a good defender who has a reputation for taking plays off - wants to guard for 30+ minutes a night, quick up the court, tough to stay in front AND close out on. Post All-Star break Jrue posted a .49 FG% and .41 3PT%.

Eric Gordon vs. Wes Matthews (Advantage New Orleans) Matthews earned his eventual starting spot through defense but he's been given more than he can handle in Gordon. A gifted shooter with a quick release and beyond the arc range. Gordon also has a terrific first step, a nose for the basket and low center of gravity. Hampered by injuries and the Clippers malaise last season, he’s getting much need exposure as part of the National team and is due for a breakout in 2010.

Gerald Wallace vs John Salmons (Advantage New Orleans)  But don't take it from me take it from Who:

Hedo Turkoglu and/or John Salmons will not be able to be effective offensively when matched up against Gerald Wallace. Wallace is too talented and too athletic defensively for them.

Gerald Wallace is also too quick for Turkoglu (slashing offense) and too strong for Salmons (post game + slashing) so he should have a good showing offensively too. Plus, he'll build a very nice rebounding differential against either of them.

Those matchups will hurt Phoenix considerably. Limits their offense. Makes them over-reliant on Baron Davis + Antawn Jamison. Makes them vulnerable and gives New Orleans a shot at winning the series.

Salmons will take a lot of jumpers and they tend to come on his own terms, often off the dribble, sometimes at the expense of ball movement. I'll also point out since he's on a team with Dwight Howard, that he's not good at passing into the post. He's a good man to man defender but sometimes you want your small forward to cheat and help too.

Al Horford vs. Antawn Jamison (Advantage New Orleans) Jamison has as a rule played for teams that finish in the bottom 5 of the league defensively and either disappoint in the postseason or miss it entirely. Both Horford (16.4 TR%) and McDyess (16.5 TR%) will outrebound Jamison (13.4 TR%) - although Antawn is a good rebounder given how often he floats around the perimeter and releases early on the fast break. He can't defend Horford in the post or match Al's offensive efficiency. He also give Phoenix a second liability at the charity stripe (.647 FT%) which will cost in hard fought, close games.

Dwight Howard vs. DeMarcus Cousins (Advantage Phoenix) Too young and brash to concede much to Howard even as he'll be regularly outmatched on both ends. Still Cousins tends to rise to a challenge, is a phenomenal rebounder in his own right and Howard's match in size. Cousins will only see 20-25 mpg a night, will most nights use all six fouls, and will be quickly spelled by McDyess who can also draw Howard away from the hoop with his midrange jumper.

The Coach

Stan Van Gundy vs Byron Scott (Advantage New Orleans) No coach in the league is in a better position to frustrate and foil a team built around Dwight Howard. Safe to say Van Gundy knows all Howard's tendencies - maybe even better than Dwight does.

The Rotation

Hedo Turkoglu vs. Linas Kleiza (Advantage Phoenix)
Hedo Turkoglu vs. Gerald Wallace (Advantage New Orleans) Thoughts? I'm very low on Turkoglu's play so likely underrate him. On his third team in three seasons and coming off a terrible year. A great playmaker and clutch. But also a streak shooter, who struggles to contribute without the ball in his hands, and a poor man-to-man defender who plays with uneven intensity.

Raja Bell vs. Wes Matthews (Wash)
Raja Bell vs. Terrence Williams (Advantage New Orleans) Williams has an even higher upside than Matthews and can be thrilling to watch - but I don't trust his decision making in a tense playoff series or even know which position is his natural one.

Antonio McDyess vs. Greg Monroe (Advantage New Orleans)

Beno Udrih vs. Rudy Fernandez (Wash) Udrih will struggle to defend either Davis or Fernandez. On the other hand, it's absolutely a problem for Phoenix that the team has only one point guard on the roster, and their second option is a currently lost at sea two guard who's a nondescript playmaker even at his natural position. Udrih is one of the league's best reserve 1s, unselfish, a great catch and shoot player who always has his head in the game, a borderline starter and onetime NBA champion.

Linas Kleiza vs. Ed Davis (Advantage New Orleans)

Dealing with Dwight

Howard will get his. But taking a page from the Boston Celtics the Bucs are not going to double team him regardless of his effectiveness. At least he'll have to work for it and deal with a rotating cast of high intensity big men. New Orleans has plenty of size, plenty of fouls.

The Orlando Magic were anyway rarely at their best when running their offense through Howard (Who rates below average in isolation and only good in the post). His repertoire is too limited, and his decisions with the ball are often rushed. Where he's lethal is in the pick in roll. The Bucs feature a strong pick and roll defense, and are anyway all too happy to see the ball end up with the roll man Baron Davis who's a far shakier and more indiscriminate shooter than Jameer Nelson (.406 FG% .277 3P%).

Elsewhere the Bucs will stay home and force Phoenix to make jumpshots. Fun fact, Phoenix features four sub-40% shooters in its rotation (Davis, Turkoglu, Fernandez and Williams) and a fifth DeShawn Stevenson ready to come off the bench in an emergency and throw a shot off the front rim. Expect particularly chippy, physical defense by Wallace, Horford, and Bell on Jamison, Turkoglu and the Gorillas' rookies.

On offense, Crash, Gordon and Holiday will challenge Howard at the rim. And Cousins' 8.3 fouls drawn per 40 in his only college season was the highest rate of any players drafted in the past five years. But a rookie isn't going to get the reigning Defensive Player of the year into foul trouble by himself so it will have to be a team effort.

I thought that was an excellent preview. Lots of detail + highly matchup focused + good arguments about why their team has a chance at winning. 

I hope other teams do their previews in this manner.

Excellent job WW!

Re: CB Draft '10 Playoffs Western Conference
« Reply #9 on: September 14, 2010, 08:53:46 AM »

Online Roy H.

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A reccomendation for next year, and a little bit of jockying for this year:

I can't stand the coach factor. I enjoy drafting them, but I hate when they're apart of the voting proccess. It's a 1 round draft. Which if your'e actually factoring in coach, gives a distinct advantage to people who pick earlier. And there's no real way to counter it.

At the same time, teams that have a superstar (i.e., Lebron, Howard, etc.) have a distinct advantage, as well.  That's as dependent upon luck of the draw as the coach is, and is much more important in people's eyes than the coach.

I mean, think of it this way:  would you trade your starting draft position down to 15th/16th, to secure a top coach?


I'M THE SILVERBACK GORILLA IN THIS MOTHER——— AND DON'T NONE OF YA'LL EVER FORGET IT!@ 34 minutes

Re: CB Draft '10 Playoffs Western Conference
« Reply #10 on: September 14, 2010, 09:09:43 AM »

Offline StartOrien

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A reccomendation for next year, and a little bit of jockying for this year:

I can't stand the coach factor. I enjoy drafting them, but I hate when they're apart of the voting proccess. It's a 1 round draft. Which if your'e actually factoring in coach, gives a distinct advantage to people who pick earlier. And there's no real way to counter it.

At the same time, teams that have a superstar (i.e., Lebron, Howard, etc.) have a distinct advantage, as well.  That's as dependent upon luck of the draw as the coach is, and is much more important in people's eyes than the coach.

I mean, think of it this way:  would you trade your starting draft position down to 15th/16th, to secure a top coach?

But there's a way to strategize elsewise. You have 13 rounds to figure out how you counter it.

At the end of the day, it's a very small thing that irrationally bothers me and probably no one else.

Re: CB Draft '10 Playoffs Western Conference
« Reply #11 on: September 14, 2010, 09:16:09 AM »

Offline Fafnir

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A reccomendation for next year, and a little bit of jockying for this year:

I can't stand the coach factor. I enjoy drafting them, but I hate when they're apart of the voting proccess. It's a 1 round draft. Which if your'e actually factoring in coach, gives a distinct advantage to people who pick earlier. And there's no real way to counter it.

At the same time, teams that have a superstar (i.e., Lebron, Howard, etc.) have a distinct advantage, as well.  That's as dependent upon luck of the draw as the coach is, and is much more important in people's eyes than the coach.

I mean, think of it this way:  would you trade your starting draft position down to 15th/16th, to secure a top coach?

But there's a way to strategize elsewise. You have 13 rounds to figure out how you counter it.

At the end of the day, it's a very small thing that irrationally bothers me and probably no one else.
You had thirteen rounds to build a roster your coach could win with though.

Re: CB Draft '10 Playoffs Western Conference
« Reply #12 on: September 14, 2010, 10:01:36 AM »

Offline StartOrien

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The Rotation:

Dwight Howard, Ed Davis
Antawn Jamison, Hedo Turkoglu, Greg Monroe
Hedo Turkoglu, John Salmons, Terrence Williams, Rudy Fernandez
John Salmons, Wes Matthews, Rudy Fernandez
Baron Davis, Rudy Fernandez


"What does it mean" - Double Rainbow Guy

What it means is that I'm not blind to a glaring mismatch against Antawn Jamison when Al Horford and Demarcus Cousins are on the floor together. And we're going to counter it with 2 wrinkles: Creating our own mismatch with Hedo Turkoglu at the Power Forward against either Cousins/Horford, and putting in some equal size with 6'11  Greg Monroe. Defensively these two would lineup against Horford. While Turkoglu defensively will be a mismatch, w/ Howard protecting his back, his own offensive mismatch outweighs Horford's.

Of course, what we expect is for Cousins & Horford to struggle to be on the court at the same time. Through foul trouble, general fatigue, and the frustration that Dwight Hoard brings. Demarcus had some real foul problems in the summer league, you have to question how many minutes he'll be able to stay on the court for in a playoff game.

I'm going to beat this dead horse until it rots:

In 12 head to head matchups, here are the numbers for Horford & Howard

Howard 19.3 points, 16.4 rebounds, 2.8 blocks, 1.7 steals

Horford 8.8 points, 7.9 rebounds, .8 blocks, .6 steals


Numbers don't always tell a full story. But these kinda do. Howard owns Horford. OWNS him.

So it's after this mismatch is forceably changed by Nawlins that we'd bring in Jamison to do what he does best. Spread the floor. I understand its easy to dismiss how good of a player Jamison is when the last thing we saw was him getting abused by 6'12 Kevin Garnett. But let's also remember that we're talking about a guy who averaged an 18 and 8 last season with his per 36 just around where it's been for his entire career.

The other tweak made to the roster was moving Salmons to the shooting guard position in our starting lineup. We're going to make Eric Gordon work on both ends. If he wants to get shots off, for large portions of the game it's going to have to be on a 6'7 John Salmons (3 inches taller). And he's also going to have to defend him on the defensive side. It's similar to the Turkoglu situation, where I think Salmons creates a larger mismatch than Gordon does on the offensive side.

Let's take a look at our revised rotational players

Antawn Jamison over Antonio McDeyss

Antonio is a heck of a banger, but in 2010 he doesn't possess the foot speed to keep up with Antawn Jamison. And he doesn't possess the height or offensive skill any longer to abuse Antawn.

WesLEY Matthews over Raja Bell

I'm sorry, but this isn't a wash. Not in 2010. In 5 days Raja Bell turns 34 years old. Last season he missed all but 6 games. The year before that he only played in 66 games. If he returned to form, he'd have an argument to be on Wesley Matthews level (I'd disagree. Matthews performance in the playoffs shows that not only is he an elite defender, but can contribute offensively), but there's nothign to support that. He's fighting against the current.

Rudy Fernandez wash Beno Udrih

This was tough for me to say, because I admittedly have a man-crush on Rudy Fernandez and I absolute detest Beno Udrih. I think there's a difference, especially on upside (that we'll see when Rudy hopefully comes to Boston) but I don't think its worth the argument.

Ed Davis over Linas Kleiza

I'm actually a big Linas fan, I really like what he brings to the game. But I think he struggles b/c he's Ed Davis is so supremely athletic and gifted defensively.

My Prediction

PAIN
« Last Edit: September 14, 2010, 10:28:57 AM by StartOrien »

Re: CB Draft '10 Playoffs Western Conference
« Reply #13 on: September 14, 2010, 10:09:20 AM »

Offline StartOrien

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Editor's note:

I'm aware Ed Davis is not a center, I put him there to emphasize Monroe and Turk at the PF. When he played it'd definitely be alongside Howard and maybe Monroe

Re: CB Draft '10 Playoffs Western Conference
« Reply #14 on: September 14, 2010, 10:25:11 AM »

Offline Donoghus

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Utah's gameplan against the Clippers will involve a heavy dose of pounding the ball inside.  We feel that Ben Wallace is no longer the defender he once was and the healthy & rejuvenated Yao Ming will attack him effectively. Also, we saw that Gasol was able to battle KG quite effectively last spring. The Gasol/Ming duo will try and exploit the Clippers interior defense and we feel that Yi Jianian coming off the bench will do almost nothing to slowdown this dynamic duo.  We also anticipate a lot of second chance scoring due to what we view as an advantage on the boards .  We're simply going to wear down this Clippers team.


2010 CB Historical Draft - Best Overall Team