CB Draft Ballot Results! (link to file on page 8 and page 1)

[StartOrien]

To piggy back on the whole 'everyone has their own taste' theme, check out the excel file and go through everyone's rankings. EVERY team has atleast one outlier that really sticks out.

[Who]

Not sure I agree with all the 12's and 13th place votes I got. 11 is a strecth too. I think at worse I should have had 10th places votes. I have a very complete team. The concerns about Outlaw were ridiculus because he average 9.5 ppg for his career weather he was starting or coming of the bench. My only really problem was a sg with Rush and Smith in a little bit of trouble. I would have picked up Flip Murray for the 1st few games of the season and went with Jordan Crawford off the bench but whatever.

Not just because he's on my team, but I think your team was a John Salmons type away from contention. I think you were a little too high on the Bogut-Rondo combo, which is a nice 1-2, but you needed a point scorer on the wing whose also able to create his own shot.

JR Smith

[action781]

I am really regretting not having enough time to market my team more. I dont know if I would have changed many minds but there were not a lot of sexy names on my roster. However, a team that goes 9 deep with NBA starters should be in the playoffs. I also can't believe one voter had the Thunder as the worst team in the conference, below Portland. Oh well!

Generally speaking, I'd agree.  Who are those 9 starters though?  Collison, Sefalosha, DeRozan, Butler, Speights, Kaman, JO are the 7 that I see.  Hard to consider Thornton "a starter" when he only did because of injury and will return to the bench this season.  And only 3 of them started for a 2010 playoff team, all of which were ousted in the first round.

My team may only have 5 players who started last season: Fish, Flynn, Kobe, Gasol, Krstic, but we have 7 players who are expected to start this season: Fish, Flynn, Kobe, Pietrus, Korver, Gasol, and Krstic.  5 players: Fish, Kobe, Pietrus, Korver, and Krstic will all start for playoff teams while Gasol has a shot too.  Fisher, Kobe, Pietrus, (and maybe Korver) will all start for teams with a legit championship shot.

I think it boils down to quality vs. quantity.  And my team finished as a 7th seed.

[action781]

Not sure I agree with all the 12's and 13th place votes I got. 11 is a strecth too. I think at worse I should have had 10th places votes. I have a very complete team. The concerns about Outlaw were ridiculus because he average 9.5 ppg for his career weather he was starting or coming of the bench. My only really problem was a sg with Rush and Smith in a little bit of trouble. I would have picked up Flip Murray for the 1st few games of the season and went with Jordan Crawford off the bench but whatever.

Not just because he's on my team, but I think your team was a John Salmons type away from contention. I think you were a little too high on the Bogut-Rondo combo, which is a nice 1-2, but you needed a point scorer on the wing whose also able to create his own shot.

JR Smith

I'm at work and I'm sure these stats are easily accessible, but anecdotely, I think JR Smith is much more effective as a scorer off the bench than as a starter.  But I guess the minutes will still be there though.  It just doesn't look as appealing which may have influenced voters.

When I read the original post, my first thought was also that this team might have trouble scoring.  Expecting 20 ppg out of Bogut and Rondo is a serious stretch as its a significant increase out of anything they have ever accomplished.  Aside from JR, the rest of your players are not scorers on contending teams IMO.

[Who]

Not sure I agree with all the 12's and 13th place votes I got. 11 is a strecth too. I think at worse I should have had 10th places votes. I have a very complete team. The concerns about Outlaw were ridiculus because he average 9.5 ppg for his career weather he was starting or coming of the bench. My only really problem was a sg with Rush and Smith in a little bit of trouble. I would have picked up Flip Murray for the 1st few games of the season and went with Jordan Crawford off the bench but whatever.

Not just because he's on my team, but I think your team was a John Salmons type away from contention. I think you were a little too high on the Bogut-Rondo combo, which is a nice 1-2, but you needed a point scorer on the wing whose also able to create his own shot.

JR Smith

I'm at work and I'm sure these stats are easily accessible, but anecdotely, I think JR Smith is much more effective as a scorer off the bench than as a starter.  But I guess the minutes will still be there though.  It just doesn't look as appealing which may have influenced voters.

When I read the original post, my first thought was also that this team might have trouble scoring.  Expecting 20 ppg out of Bogut and Rondo is a serious stretch as its a significant increase out of anything they have ever accomplished.  Aside from JR, the rest of your players are not scorers on contending teams IMO.

JR Smith - 18 starts in 08/09 - 17.6ppg, 4.7rpg, 3.3apg in 34.6mpg

24 starts in 06/07 - 16.2ppg in 28.8mpg

JR Smith has consistently averaged about 20 points per 36 minutes over the last four seasons and he has maintained that type of production when he has received more minutes.

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Rajon Rondo is going to have a much larger role (offensively) on this team than with the Celtics. He'll score around 17ppg and hand out another 11apg ... creating lots of quality scoring opportunities for his supporting cast (wings are solid perimeter shooters + big men good finishers, players who'll play better because they have a PG like Rondo setting them up).

I would Andrew Bogut's numbers to be in line with what he has done in the past + Carl Landry's to be similar to what he did last season (16-18ppg). They'll be closer to his Houston numbers than his Sacramento numbers (efficiency wise) because of Rondo and Bogut.

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I think the Boston Celtics are a slightly below average but serviceable offensive team + a hugely under-rated defensive squad.

One of the better defensive teams in this fantasy league (6th-8th range).

[StartOrien]

Not that the real Celtics would do this in a billion years, but for the sake of an argument:

If Boston traded Rajon Rondo for Brandon Jennings, where would you rank the real Milwakee Bucks in the East? And if you have them in the playoffs, how far do you think they make it?

[Who]

Not that the real Celtics would do this in a billion years, but for the sake of an argument:

If Boston traded Rajon Rondo for Brandon Jennings, where would you rank the real Milwakee Bucks in the East? And if you have them in the playoffs, how far do you think they make it?

4th seed in the East ahead of Atlanta but a tier below Orlando, Boston and Miami

Edit: Oops, forgot about Chicago. Fifth place behind the Bulls but on the same tier.

[indeedproceed]

Not that the real Celtics would do this in a billion years, but for the sake of an argument:

If Boston traded Rajon Rondo for Brandon Jennings, where would you rank the real Milwakee Bucks in the East? And if you have them in the playoffs, how far do you think they make it?

4th seed in the East ahead of Atlanta but a tier below Orlando, Boston and Miami

Edit: Oops, forgot about Chicago. Fifth place behind the Bulls but on the same tier.

I don't disagree with that, and they were fifth in the east anyway, weren't they?

The thing is I think most of us disagreed with Who about JR Smith or Brandon Rush's ability to play John Salmon's part.

[Who]

Not that the real Celtics would do this in a billion years, but for the sake of an argument:

If Boston traded Rajon Rondo for Brandon Jennings, where would you rank the real Milwakee Bucks in the East? And if you have them in the playoffs, how far do you think they make it?

4th seed in the East ahead of Atlanta but a tier below Orlando, Boston and Miami

Edit: Oops, forgot about Chicago. Fifth place behind the Bulls but on the same tier.

I don't disagree with that, and they were fifth in the east anyway, weren't they?

The thing is I think most of us disagreed with Who about JR Smith or Brandon Rush's ability to play John Salmon's part.

JR Smith would play a similar role to John Salmons

Brandon Rush would be more comparable to an Arron Afflalo type player. Less efficient overall offensively (because Rush can't seem to finish at the rim) but more rebounding + better able to defend bigger two guards and small forwards.

[indeedproceed]

Not that the real Celtics would do this in a billion years, but for the sake of an argument:

If Boston traded Rajon Rondo for Brandon Jennings, where would you rank the real Milwakee Bucks in the East? And if you have them in the playoffs, how far do you think they make it?

4th seed in the East ahead of Atlanta but a tier below Orlando, Boston and Miami

Edit: Oops, forgot about Chicago. Fifth place behind the Bulls but on the same tier.

I don't disagree with that, and they were fifth in the east anyway, weren't they?

The thing is I think most of us disagreed with Who about JR Smith or Brandon Rush's ability to play John Salmon's part.

JR Smith would play a similar role to John Salmons

Brandon Rush would be more comparable to an Arron Afflalo type player. Less efficient overall offensively (because Rush can't seem to finish at the rim) but more rebounding + better able to defend bigger two guards and small forwards.

okay, let me re-phrase. I think JR Smith is capable at scoring at John Salmons's level, but with Salmons literally turning on a teammate in Denver (and choking him), I didn't think Milwaukee as a team could handle his personality.

I thought Milwaukee was a coach-driven team (by taskmaster Scott Skiles) that relied on very strict discipline to get the most out of its players, especially on the defensive end. A primadonna immature player like JR Smith could screw that up pretty badly, especially if he was asked to play a leading role.

[StartOrien]

Ya, I guess I ask the question to see how good people think that Riah's team could be if everything went right for them. And I thought at best you're hoping to be the real version of the Bucks with Rondo & Carl Landry.

[The Walker Wiggle]

the boogie is going to need a kingmaker to convince people he can hang with dwight. you think sarah palin is too busy to rustle up some support against the 'phoenix fat cats'?

As long as we can agree that in the postseason Dwight Howard's name recognition is > defense, turnovers, free throw shooting, and three point shooting?

NOLA Bucs	League Average	Phoenix Gorillas
.475 FG%	.461 FG%	.449 FG%
.781 FT%	.759 FT%	.712 FT%
.374 3PT%	.355 3PT%	.342 3PT%

Point of order IP, playing rookie Cousins 22 mpg is more of a problem than playing two rookie big men, Monroe and Davis 33 mpg?

Or Phase 1 Top 5 Pick, Phase 2 ?, Phase 3 Profit.

Yikes. Someone's going haaaaaard.

Only because I know you're up for it.

(You'll also notice IP is conspicuously silent on his preference for Top 5 picks above all else...)

[Greenbean]

I am really regretting not having enough time to market my team more. I dont know if I would have changed many minds but there were not a lot of sexy names on my roster. However, a team that goes 9 deep with NBA starters should be in the playoffs. I also can't believe one voter had the Thunder as the worst team in the conference, below Portland. Oh well!

Generally speaking, I'd agree.  Who are those 9 starters though?  Collison, Sefalosha, DeRozan, Butler, Speights, Kaman, JO are the 7 that I see.  Hard to consider Thornton "a starter" when he only did because of injury and will return to the bench this season.  And only 3 of them started for a 2010 playoff team, all of which were ousted in the first round.

My team may only have 5 players who started last season: Fish, Flynn, Kobe, Gasol, Krstic, but we have 7 players who are expected to start this season: Fish, Flynn, Kobe, Pietrus, Korver, Gasol, and Krstic.  5 players: Fish, Kobe, Pietrus, Korver, and Krstic will all start for playoff teams while Gasol has a shot too.  Fisher, Kobe, Pietrus, (and maybe Korver) will all start for teams with a legit championship shot.

I think it boils down to quality vs. quantity.  And my team finished as a 7th seed.

Well Thornton has started 64% of games he has appeared in for his career. He is capable of starting.

Regarding your comment about only 3 played for playoff teams, I think that is where I fell short in the voting. Alot of these guys have been stuck on bad teams. If I had more time I could have dug up alot of information proving their worth as players as most of them have not had the opportunity to prove themselves as winners. I think I misspoke saying 9 as there are really only 8 starters. That being said, it is a well balanced team that can defend. In addition to those 8 are proven role players like Farmar and Davis. Im not bitter at all about it. I think it is a learning process and next year I will have a different drafting strategy.

On your team, it may not be that the players are more quality, it may just be that all the voters were familiar with their games. They have witnessed them contribute to winning basketball. So kudos to you for identifying those players.

[StartOrien]

the boogie is going to need a kingmaker to convince people he can hang with dwight. you think sarah palin is too busy to rustle up some support against the 'phoenix fat cats'?

As long as we can agree that in the postseason Dwight Howard's name recognition is > defense, turnovers, free throw shooting, and three point shooting?

NOLA Bucs	League Average	Phoenix Gorillas
.475 FG%	.461 FG%	.449 FG%
.781 FT%	.759 FT%	.712 FT%
.374 3PT%	.355 3PT%	.342 3PT%

Point of order IP, playing rookie Cousins 22 mpg is more of a problem than playing two rookie big men, Monroe and Davis 33 mpg?

Or Phase 1 Top 5 Pick, Phase 2 ?, Phase 3 Profit.

Yikes. Someone's going haaaaaard.

Only because I know you're up for it.

(You'll also notice IP is conspicuously silent on his preference for Top 5 picks above all else...)

I must've missed the point about top 5 picks, what exactly was the point?

[The Walker Wiggle]

I must've missed this point about top 5 picks, what exactly was the point?

I was tweaking IP's nose not yours - and waiting for him to tell me why it wasn't important to be the better defensive team, better three point shooting team, better free throw shooting team, and the team that turns the ball over less.