2010 CB Draft: Northwest Division Press Conferences

[Roy H.]

Denver:

*  You have only one above-average three point shooter in your lineup, and he's a rookie coming off of what many think was a fluke season.  Is this a concern?

This is the first time I have heard anybody suggest that Thornton had a fluke season.

Really?  I've heard that a lot, with many suggesting that Thornton's numbers are inflated, and that he'll come back down to Earth this season.  It's probably a bi-product of his draft position (13th pick of the 2nd round), but I've heard the skepticism pretty frequently.

I also haven't heard that from anyone, and I've been following Thorton's progress pretty closely.

In fact, the only thing I've read recently  was from Ryan Schwan at Hornets 24/7 which made the case that Marcus Thornton ought to be considered "untouchable" by management even when discussing Carmelo Anthony.

Career Arc

Here's the rub.  It's tough to send out a rookie - because they are a rookie, and you have no idea what their eventual ceiling is going to be.  Watching Collison go out that door was very tough for me.  He has the potential to be exceptional.  So we have the same issue with Thornton.

In general, player production peaks at age 24 and 25.  Marcus Thornton turned 23 this summer, and by most scales I've seen, we can probably expect him to produce about 5% more this year, and another 5% more after that.(this isn't a hard and fast rule, it could be more, it could be less).  If Thornton does improve that much, by the time Thornton is 24, he'll be posting a PER around 20.  That makes him elite, and considering his likely salary even if he blows up this year, it'll also make him a bargain.

My assumption would be that anybody that thinks Thornton is untouchable even when discussing Carmelo Anthony is a tad bit biased.  Sort of like Celtics fans who wouldn't move Rondo for Chris Paul, or who thought that KG wasn't worth Big Al and Gerald Green.

The Rondo for Chris Paul is taken, but the Big Al for KG is rejected...only crazy people thought that. Some may not have "wanted" to give up big Al, but everyone knew it was worth it, unless you were a crazy person.

Also, I don't think Ryan Schwan from Hornets 24/7, the ESPN Truehoop Blog is prone to fits of homerism, unless he's doing a schtick. Remember, that guy watched Thorton all season, we only saw a few games, if that, after CP3 went out.

The Boston Globe did a poll, and something like 70% of respondents said they didn't want KG at the expense of Big Al.  Those numbers quickly changed after the trade, but that was the feeling in "Celtics Nation".

Also, let's be real:  the vast majority of bloggers are prone to fits of homerism.  I mean, JEff Clark of Celticsblog and the Sports Blog Nation network is an unabashed Rondo lover, who has lost all objectivity on the subject; he'd be the first to tell you so.  Anybody who would make Thornton an untouchable if given the chance to pair CP3 and Carmelo is out of his gourd.

Sorry to distract from the Northwest's / Denver's press conference, but I just don't treat team bloggers as objective sources.  Also, I'm pretty sure that if Gomesfan offered Gainesville Carmelo for Thornton, GC wouldn't have to think twice.

[Who]

Denver:

*  You have only one above-average three point shooter in your lineup, and he's a rookie coming off of what many think was a fluke season.  Is this a concern?

This is the first time I have heard anybody suggest that Thornton had a fluke season.

Really?  I've heard that a lot, with many suggesting that Thornton's numbers are inflated, and that he'll come back down to Earth this season.  It's probably a bi-product of his draft position (13th pick of the 2nd round), but I've heard the skepticism pretty frequently.

I also haven't heard that from anyone, and I've been following Thorton's progress pretty closely.

In fact, the only thing I've read recently  was from Ryan Schwan at Hornets 24/7 which made the case that Marcus Thornton ought to be considered "untouchable" by management even when discussing Carmelo Anthony.

Career Arc

Here's the rub.  It's tough to send out a rookie - because they are a rookie, and you have no idea what their eventual ceiling is going to be.  Watching Collison go out that door was very tough for me.  He has the potential to be exceptional.  So we have the same issue with Thornton.

In general, player production peaks at age 24 and 25.  Marcus Thornton turned 23 this summer, and by most scales I've seen, we can probably expect him to produce about 5% more this year, and another 5% more after that.(this isn't a hard and fast rule, it could be more, it could be less).  If Thornton does improve that much, by the time Thornton is 24, he'll be posting a PER around 20.  That makes him elite, and considering his likely salary even if he blows up this year, it'll also make him a bargain.

My assumption would be that anybody that thinks Thornton is untouchable even when discussing Carmelo Anthony is a tad bit biased.  Sort of like Celtics fans who wouldn't move Rondo for Chris Paul, or who thought that KG wasn't worth Big Al and Gerald Green.

The Rondo for Chris Paul is taken, but the Big Al for KG is rejected...only crazy people thought that. Some may not have "wanted" to give up big Al, but everyone knew it was worth it, unless you were a crazy person.

Also, I don't think Ryan Schwan from Hornets 24/7, the ESPN Truehoop Blog is prone to fits of homerism, unless he's doing a schtick. Remember, that guy watched Thorton all season, we only saw a few games, if that, after CP3 went out.

It is ridiculous to consider Marcus Thornton "untouchable" when talking about a player like Carmelo Anthony.

That is a poor evaluation of Marcus Thornton's abilities. He is a good role player but not a star.

Heck, Thornton is not even worth Trevor Ariza nevermind Carmelo Anthony.

[Who]

Denver:

*  You have only one above-average three point shooter in your lineup, and he's a rookie coming off of what many think was a fluke season.  Is this a concern?

This is the first time I have heard anybody suggest that Thornton had a fluke season.

Really?  I've heard that a lot, with many suggesting that Thornton's numbers are inflated, and that he'll come back down to Earth this season.  It's probably a bi-product of his draft position (13th pick of the 2nd round), but I've heard the skepticism pretty frequently.

I also haven't heard that from anyone, and I've been following Thorton's progress pretty closely.

In fact, the only thing I've read recently  was from Ryan Schwan at Hornets 24/7 which made the case that Marcus Thornton ought to be considered "untouchable" by management even when discussing Carmelo Anthony.

Career Arc

Here's the rub.  It's tough to send out a rookie - because they are a rookie, and you have no idea what their eventual ceiling is going to be.  Watching Collison go out that door was very tough for me.  He has the potential to be exceptional.  So we have the same issue with Thornton.

In general, player production peaks at age 24 and 25.  Marcus Thornton turned 23 this summer, and by most scales I've seen, we can probably expect him to produce about 5% more this year, and another 5% more after that.(this isn't a hard and fast rule, it could be more, it could be less).  If Thornton does improve that much, by the time Thornton is 24, he'll be posting a PER around 20.  That makes him elite, and considering his likely salary even if he blows up this year, it'll also make him a bargain.

My assumption would be that anybody that thinks Thornton is untouchable even when discussing Carmelo Anthony is a tad bit biased.  Sort of like Celtics fans who wouldn't move Rondo for Chris Paul, or who thought that KG wasn't worth Big Al and Gerald Green.

The Rondo for Chris Paul is taken, but the Big Al for KG is rejected...only crazy people thought that. Some may not have "wanted" to give up big Al, but everyone knew it was worth it, unless you were a crazy person.

Also, I don't think Ryan Schwan from Hornets 24/7, the ESPN Truehoop Blog is prone to fits of homerism, unless he's doing a schtick. Remember, that guy watched Thorton all season, we only saw a few games, if that, after CP3 went out.

The Boston Globe did a poll, and something like 70% of respondents said they didn't want KG at the expense of Big Al.  Those numbers quickly changed after the trade, but that was the feeling in "Celtics Nation".

Also, let's be real:  the vast majority of bloggers are prone to fits of homerism.  I mean, JEff Clark of Celticsblog and the Sports Blog Nation network is an unabashed Rondo lover, who has lost all objectivity on the subject; he'd be the first to tell you so.  Anybody who would make Thornton an untouchable if given the chance to pair CP3 and Carmelo is out of his gourd.

Sorry to distract from the Northwest's / Denver's press conference, but I just don't treat team bloggers as objective sources.  Also, I'm pretty sure that if Gomesfan offered Gainesville Carmelo for Thornton, GC wouldn't have to think twice.

It was 80% wasn't it? That weren't willing to give up Big Al for KG. Not 70%.

[celticpride07]

PG - Westbrook (32)  Steve Blake (18)
SG - Thornton (24) R.Brewer (10)
SF - Ariza (30) Childress (30)
PF - Gibson (26)  Arthur (12) Singleton (10)
C -  Duncan (28) Milicic (20)

I am not a fan of having arguably the best power forward in the game playing center..I would even move darko to center to allow duncan to play power forward..i think gibson is more of a bench player than a starter..at least darko is starting for minnesota.

[StartOrien]

Question to Denver:

In my opinion, this division comes down to you and Utah. What makes you the better team?

[Who]

PG - Westbrook (32)  Steve Blake (18)
SG - Thornton (24) R.Brewer (10)
SF - Ariza (30) Childress (30)
PF - Gibson (26)  Arthur (12) Singleton (10)
C -  Duncan (28) Milicic (20)

I am not a fan of having arguably the best power forward in the game playing center..I would even move darko to center to allow duncan to play power forward..i think gibson is more of a bench player than a starter..at least darko is starting for minnesota.

Tim Duncan is a center. He no longer has the quickness or mobility to defend power forwards any more.

Tim Duncan has spent the majority of his time defending the five position ever since Nazr Mohammed and Rasho Nesterovic left the club four years ago.

[indeedproceed]

Denver:

*  You have only one above-average three point shooter in your lineup, and he's a rookie coming off of what many think was a fluke season.  Is this a concern?

This is the first time I have heard anybody suggest that Thornton had a fluke season.

Really?  I've heard that a lot, with many suggesting that Thornton's numbers are inflated, and that he'll come back down to Earth this season.  It's probably a bi-product of his draft position (13th pick of the 2nd round), but I've heard the skepticism pretty frequently.

I also haven't heard that from anyone, and I've been following Thorton's progress pretty closely.

In fact, the only thing I've read recently  was from Ryan Schwan at Hornets 24/7 which made the case that Marcus Thornton ought to be considered "untouchable" by management even when discussing Carmelo Anthony.

Career Arc

Here's the rub.  It's tough to send out a rookie - because they are a rookie, and you have no idea what their eventual ceiling is going to be.  Watching Collison go out that door was very tough for me.  He has the potential to be exceptional.  So we have the same issue with Thornton.

In general, player production peaks at age 24 and 25.  Marcus Thornton turned 23 this summer, and by most scales I've seen, we can probably expect him to produce about 5% more this year, and another 5% more after that.(this isn't a hard and fast rule, it could be more, it could be less).  If Thornton does improve that much, by the time Thornton is 24, he'll be posting a PER around 20.  That makes him elite, and considering his likely salary even if he blows up this year, it'll also make him a bargain.

My assumption would be that anybody that thinks Thornton is untouchable even when discussing Carmelo Anthony is a tad bit biased.  Sort of like Celtics fans who wouldn't move Rondo for Chris Paul, or who thought that KG wasn't worth Big Al and Gerald Green.

The Rondo for Chris Paul is taken, but the Big Al for KG is rejected...only crazy people thought that. Some may not have "wanted" to give up big Al, but everyone knew it was worth it, unless you were a crazy person.

Also, I don't think Ryan Schwan from Hornets 24/7, the ESPN Truehoop Blog is prone to fits of homerism, unless he's doing a schtick. Remember, that guy watched Thorton all season, we only saw a few games, if that, after CP3 went out.

The Boston Globe did a poll, and something like 70% of respondents said they didn't want KG at the expense of Big Al.  Those numbers quickly changed after the trade, but that was the feeling in "Celtics Nation".

Also, let's be real:  the vast majority of bloggers are prone to fits of homerism.  I mean, JEff Clark of Celticsblog and the Sports Blog Nation network is an unabashed Rondo lover, who has lost all objectivity on the subject; he'd be the first to tell you so.  Anybody who would make Thornton an untouchable if given the chance to pair CP3 and Carmelo is out of his gourd.

Sorry to distract from the Northwest's / Denver's press conference, but I just don't treat team bloggers as objective sources.  Also, I'm pretty sure that if Gomesfan offered Gainesville Carmelo for Thornton, GC wouldn't have to think twice.

I think if Thornton for Anthony would get it done, they'd do it. Just like if Rondo for KG (alone) gets it done, Danny would've done it.

Its because they wanted a lot, PLUS Rondo, kind of like Denver will want alot, PLUS Thornton, I think that's what Schwan is saying here.

And FWIW, I think Thornton is considerably more than a role player. A superstar? No, not yet, and likely not ever, but he's more than just a simple role player.

PG - Westbrook (32)  Steve Blake (18)
SG - Thornton (24) R.Brewer (10)
SF - Ariza (30) Childress (30)
PF - Gibson (26)  Arthur (12) Singleton (10)
C -  Duncan (28) Milicic (20)

I am not a fan of having arguably the best power forward in the game playing center..I would even move darko to center to allow duncan to play power forward..i think gibson is more of a bench player than a starter..at least darko is starting for minnesota.

Duncan has slowed down enough so that he's more effective guarding Centers now anyways...plus just because someone is starting in minnesota does NOT mean they're a legitimate player. Google "David Kahn", "Irrational", and "stupid mcpoopey face" and you'll see what I mean.

[Who]

PG - Westbrook (32)  Steve Blake (18)
SG - Thornton (24) R.Brewer (10)
SF - Ariza (30) Childress (30)
PF - Gibson (26)  Arthur (12) Singleton (10)
C -  Duncan (28) Milicic (20)

Taj Gibson is a considerably more effective player than Darrell Arthur or James Singleton.

I think you should up his minutes to the 31-34 range. Especially if you want to keep Timmy's minutes low.

[Who]

And FWIW, I think Thornton is considerably more than a role player. A superstar? No, not yet, and likely not ever, but he's more than just a simple role player. 

Marcus Thornton is a high scoring role player but his overall game isn't effective enough to be a star. He is a defensive liability, a below average rebounder and a poor passer. His scoring efficiency is good but unexceptional. His overall contribution is the equivalent of a role player.

He just does it while scoring 20ppg (in starter's minutes).

--------------------------------------------

Not a big fan of players who need 17 FGA's to reach 20ppg ... especially when their contributions elsewhere are poor.

[Roy H.]

PG - Westbrook (32)  Steve Blake (18)
SG - Thornton (24) R.Brewer (10)
SF - Ariza (30) Childress (30)
PF - Gibson (26)  Arthur (12) Singleton (10)
C -  Duncan (28) Milicic (20)

I am not a fan of having arguably the best power forward in the game playing center..I would even move darko to center to allow duncan to play power forward..i think gibson is more of a bench player than a starter..at least darko is starting for minnesota.

For whatever it's worth, according to 82games.com Duncan played exclusively at center last year in San Antonio.  It doesn't mean that he can't play PF, but he's been used at center in San Antonio for quite some time.

[Fafnir]

And FWIW, I think Thornton is considerably more than a role player. A superstar? No, not yet, and likely not ever, but he's more than just a simple role player. 

Marcus Thornton is a high scoring role player but his overall game isn't effective enough to be a star. He is a defensive liability, a below average rebounder and a poor passer. His scoring efficiency is good but unexceptional. His overall contribution is the equivalent of a role player.

He just does it while scoring 20ppg (in starter's minutes).

--------------------------------------------

Not a big fan of players who need 17 FGA's to reach 20ppg ... especially when their contributions elsewhere are poor.

TS% of .550, not bad but not great.

[Roy H.]

Question to Denver:

In my opinion, this division comes down to you and Utah. What makes you the better team?

I would second this question, and would ask it in reverse as soon as Utah posts its press conference.

[indeedproceed]

And FWIW, I think Thornton is considerably more than a role player. A superstar? No, not yet, and likely not ever, but he's more than just a simple role player.  

Marcus Thornton is a high scoring role player but his overall game isn't effective enough to be a star. He is a defensive liability, a below average rebounder and a poor passer. His scoring efficiency is good but unexceptional. His overall contribution is the equivalent of a role player.

He just does it while scoring 20ppg (in starter's minutes).

I don't understand this. He rebounds on par with JR Smith or Corey Brewer (better than Courtney Lee, OJ Mayo, or Ray Allen), he had a higher TS% than Kobe Bryant, he consistently outperforms opposing SG's, and while his defense was below average, he only allowed a dMulti of 1.09, which puts him on par roughly with Shannon Brown.

I'm not contesting that Thornton is not a superstar. I guess my issue is with calling him a role player who just "scores 20 ppg in starters minutes".

[Roy H.]

And FWIW, I think Thornton is considerably more than a role player. A superstar? No, not yet, and likely not ever, but he's more than just a simple role player.  

Marcus Thornton is a high scoring role player but his overall game isn't effective enough to be a star. He is a defensive liability, a below average rebounder and a poor passer. His scoring efficiency is good but unexceptional. His overall contribution is the equivalent of a role player.

He just does it while scoring 20ppg (in starter's minutes).

I don't understand this. He rebounds on par with JR Smith or Corey Brewer (better than Courtney Lee, OJ Mayo, or Ray Allen), he had a higher TS% than Kobe Bryant, he consistently outperforms opposing SG's, and while his defense was below average, he only allowed a dMulti of 1.09, which puts him on par roughly with Shannon Brown.

I'm not contesting that Thornton is not a superstar. I guess my issue is with calling him a role player who just "scores 20 ppg in starters minutes".

In terms of rebounding, Who was probably thinking more of defensive rebounding.  Thornton ranked 56th out of 76 shooting guards in defensive rebounding rate.

[indeedproceed]

And FWIW, I think Thornton is considerably more than a role player. A superstar? No, not yet, and likely not ever, but he's more than just a simple role player. 

Marcus Thornton is a high scoring role player but his overall game isn't effective enough to be a star. He is a defensive liability, a below average rebounder and a poor passer. His scoring efficiency is good but unexceptional. His overall contribution is the equivalent of a role player.

He just does it while scoring 20ppg (in starter's minutes).

I don't understand this. He rebounds on par with JR Smith or Corey Brewer (better than Courtney Lee, OJ Mayo, or Ray Allen), he had a higher TS% than Kobe Bryant, he consistently outperforms opposing SG's, and while his defense was below average, he only allowed a dMulti of 1.09, which puts him on par roughly with Shannon Brown.

I'm not contesting that Thornton is not a superstar. I guess my issue is with calling him a role player who just "scores 20 ppg in starters minutes".

In terms of rebounding, Who was probably thinking more of defensive rebounding.  Thornton ranked 56th out of 76 shooting guards in defensive rebounding rate.

But he was tied for 3rd among offensive RPG from SG's.

Meh, he's not my player, so GC can take up the sword if anyone wants to pursue this further.