Author Topic: Official Discuss your CB Draft team  (Read 400858 times)

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Re: Official Discuss your CB Draft team
« Reply #1140 on: September 07, 2010, 01:52:11 PM »

Offline indeedproceed

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Now, I don't mean to pick on IP's team but I have already my opinion clear about Lebron's surrounding cast. But what if this is one of those years where the rookie class just lays an egg? It happens 20-25% of the time. What if IP's three rookies are bad and Eric Maynor struggles? This is not completely out of the realm of possibilities. This is not something that has only a minuscule chance of happening. In his case he then basically has no backup for Noah or LeBron. Pretty tough to be considered a contender if your depth is 7 players and only one of them is a star.

Ha. I oh so very much hope I get your team in the playoffs.

Omer Asik is 24 years old, he's as much of a true rookie as Scola was when he came over. Is he starters quality? No. Can I rely on him for my backup center minutes for 8 or so minutes a night? Yes.

And Eric Maynor struggling? When has he struggled? As a rookie he showed the ability to be opportunistic when he got his chances and from everyone everywhere who watched Thunder basketball, he's a pretty darn good backup PG. What if Andrew Bynum regresses and turns into a clownfish that gets eaten by a stingray? Oh what will you do then?

And the whole "if Noah goes down" argument is ridiculous. What if Bynum goes down? Your team is sunk. What if Yao goes down for Dons team? He's done. What if LeBron goes down? Will my team suck then because I don't have a backup of his caliber? Ya think?

Please, give me a break. Depth is important, but you know what is more important? Having a healthy set of 5 starters come playoff time. People point to us not having a backup for Perk, but actually, we did. We had Rasheed Wallace. The problem was neither Rasheed or Garnett are decent rebounders anymore, and nobody on our bench was either.

the things Im asking Gani Lawal to do in 5 (yes, 5 minutes a night) are rebound, and score. Those are typically things Rookies can do. The things I'm asking Landry Fields to do in 5 (yes, 5) minutes a night is shoot, then drive to the hoop and shoot. Those are typically things that carry over from college if they were good at them in the first place.


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Re: Official Discuss your CB Draft team
« Reply #1141 on: September 07, 2010, 01:56:18 PM »

Offline KCattheStripe

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Please, give me a break. Depth is important, but you know what is more important? Having a healthy set of 5 starters come playoff time.




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Re: Official Discuss your CB Draft team
« Reply #1142 on: September 07, 2010, 01:56:48 PM »

Offline Donoghus

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Please, give me a break. Depth is important, but you know what is more important? Having a healthy set of 5 starters come playoff time.




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Re: Official Discuss your CB Draft team
« Reply #1143 on: September 07, 2010, 01:57:05 PM »

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Omer Asik is 24 years old, he's as much of a true rookie as Scola was when he came over. Is he starters quality? No. Can I rely on him for my backup center minutes for 8 or so minutes a night? Yes.

I am not sure what to make of Asik. I have seen a fair few differing reports on him. Some claiming him as a quality defensive player and some calling him a liability (help defense).

http://nbaplaybook.com/player-scouting-report-omer-asik/

I view Asik is a question mark as a rotation player until I see some more of him for myself.

Re: Official Discuss your CB Draft team
« Reply #1144 on: September 07, 2010, 01:59:21 PM »

Offline KCattheStripe

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Please, give me a break. Depth is important, but you know what is more important? Having a healthy set of 5 starters come playoff time.




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The Seattle Supersonics suggest the Utah Jazz withdraw their support until they're certain that Yao Ming's foot won't , y'know, fall off.

Re: Official Discuss your CB Draft team
« Reply #1145 on: September 07, 2010, 02:00:32 PM »

Offline Donoghus

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Please, give me a break. Depth is important, but you know what is more important? Having a healthy set of 5 starters come playoff time.




The Seattle Supersonics support this message.

As does the Utah Jazz.


The Seattle Supersonics suggest the Utah Jazz withdraw their support until they're certain that Yao min's foot won't , y'know, fall off.

He's gonna be at training camp and weened along come regular season.  Fully expected to be there and playing come springtime.


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Re: Official Discuss your CB Draft team
« Reply #1146 on: September 07, 2010, 02:18:08 PM »

Offline nickagneta

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Now, I don't mean to pick on IP's team but I have already my opinion clear about Lebron's surrounding cast. But what if this is one of those years where the rookie class just lays an egg? It happens 20-25% of the time. What if IP's three rookies are bad and Eric Maynor struggles? This is not completely out of the realm of possibilities. This is not something that has only a minuscule chance of happening. In his case he then basically has no backup for Noah or LeBron. Pretty tough to be considered a contender if your depth is 7 players and only one of them is a star.

Ha. I oh so very much hope I get your team in the playoffs.

Omer Asik is 24 years old, he's as much of a true rookie as Scola was when he came over. Is he starters quality? No. Can I rely on him for my backup center minutes for 8 or so minutes a night? Yes.

And Eric Maynor struggling? When has he struggled? As a rookie he showed the ability to be opportunistic when he got his chances and from everyone everywhere who watched Thunder basketball, he's a pretty darn good backup PG. What if Andrew Bynum regresses and turns into a clownfish that gets eaten by a stingray? Oh what will you do then?

And the whole "if Noah goes down" argument is ridiculous. What if Bynum goes down? Your team is sunk. What if Yao goes down for Dons team? He's done. What if LeBron goes down? Will my team suck then because I don't have a backup of his caliber? Ya think?

Please, give me a break. Depth is important, but you know what is more important? Having a healthy set of 5 starters come playoff time. People point to us not having a backup for Perk, but actually, we did. We had Rasheed Wallace. The problem was neither Rasheed or Garnett are decent rebounders anymore, and nobody on our bench was either.

the things Im asking Gani Lawal to do in 5 (yes, 5 minutes a night) are rebound, and score. Those are typically things Rookies can do. The things I'm asking Landry Fields to do in 5 (yes, 5) minutes a night is shoot, then drive to the hoop and shoot. Those are typically things that carry over from college if they were good at them in the first place.


Who mentioned that Noah was getting hurt and going down?

Who mentioned that Eric Maynor struggled last year?

My entire example was about how tough it is to rely on rookies at all. I don't care if it is just 5 MPG. And I don't care how old Asik is because let's face it, for every Euro that came over at an older age and succeeded in being a contributor right away, there are just as many that came over and didn't.

All I am saying is if you are going to evaluate teams like yours that are relying on rookies and even second year bench players, many of which struggle their second year, then there is a scenario that must be considered which is they will fall flat on their face and be a bigger liability than an asset.

It has to be considered and if that is considered you are leaving Noah and lebron with little to no backups playing over 40 minutes a night. How would that effect them long term and eventually come playoff time? How would that effect the team in games where those players get into foul trouble?

I've said I think your team will be good and will make the playoffs. I just think that given the fact that I think the surrounding parts aren't as strong as the real life Cavs that Chicago will suffer similar and sooner playoff disappointments.

Re: Official Discuss your CB Draft team
« Reply #1147 on: September 07, 2010, 02:21:09 PM »

Offline indeedproceed

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Omer Asik is 24 years old, he's as much of a true rookie as Scola was when he came over. Is he starters quality? No. Can I rely on him for my backup center minutes for 8 or so minutes a night? Yes.

I am not sure what to make of Asik. I have seen a fair few differing reports on him. Some claiming him as a quality defensive player and some calling him a liability (help defense).

http://nbaplaybook.com/player-scouting-report-omer-asik/

I view Asik is a question mark as a rotation player until I see some more of him for myself.

I don't really know where to peg Asik either, and that scouting report (the NBA playbook one) was the first report I read on Asik. Per the reviewer, since he contradicted a lot of what I read after that report, I took it with a grain of salt. I don't know the dates or amount of game film seen on Asik, the kid has been playing in the Turkish league since he was 18, so honestly I'd like to know how much film the guy watched.

There is one here:
http://www.chicagonow.com/blogs/chicago-bulls-confidential/2009/09/omer-asik-eurobasket-scouting-report.html

Where the guy came in thinking Asik was overrated defensively and just a non-contributor offensively, but effectively did a 180 after seeing Asik play against NBA bigs Marcin Gortat and Pau Gasol. (Both games he performed well)

Then, I just found this one, which has recent information and states the games watched.

Quote from: Chicago Now
Offensively:
He's not highly skilled offensively, everything he gets is off a cut, offensive rebound, transition, or some kind of other garbage basket.   He simply doesn't create his own offense.  However, he sets a nice pick, and is adept at finding an open spot to roll to and attempt to get an opportunity basket.  He has decent touch with his little one handed hooks and shots near the hoop, as he hit everything I saw him throw up in two games except two shots (one didn't seem to show up in the box score) and both were probably uncalled defensive fouls.

Defensively:
He did an okay job in help defensive and on the glass.  Neither game was probably amongst his best for help defense, but he was fairly adept at making rotations, and he hedged screens well and found his way back to his man in time for the most part.  As a man defender he looked fundamentally sound, but I think he'll struggle with the bigger centers in the NBA.  As a rebounder, he looked simply okay.  He gave up some boards to athletic players who went around him.   

Athletically:
He didn't strike me as a big stiff.   He moves fairly fluidly and looks to have the frame to add more muscle.  I can definitely see where he has potential going forward to become a nice solid backup center.   While I haven't watched a ton of Gortat in Orlando, Asik reminds me a lot of what I've seen from Gortat.

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Re: Official Discuss your CB Draft team
« Reply #1148 on: September 07, 2010, 02:34:54 PM »

Offline indeedproceed

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Now, I don't mean to pick on IP's team but I have already my opinion clear about Lebron's surrounding cast. But what if this is one of those years where the rookie class just lays an egg? It happens 20-25% of the time. What if IP's three rookies are bad and Eric Maynor struggles? This is not completely out of the realm of possibilities. This is not something that has only a minuscule chance of happening. In his case he then basically has no backup for Noah or LeBron. Pretty tough to be considered a contender if your depth is 7 players and only one of them is a star.
Who mentioned that Noah was getting hurt and going down?

No backup for Noah I basically read as "noah might be injured". Sorry if that was the wrong way to take that, as its something you've brought up before.

Quote
Who mentioned that Eric Maynor struggled last year?

My entire example was about how tough it is to rely on rookies at all. I don't care if it is just 5 MPG. And I don't care how old Asik is because let's face it, for every Euro that came over at an older age and succeeded in being a contributor right away, there are just as many that came over and didn't.

All I am saying is if you are going to evaluate teams like yours that are relying on rookies and even second year bench players, many of which struggle their second year, then there is a scenario that must be considered which is they will fall flat on their face and be a bigger liability than an asset.

It has to be considered and if that is considered you are leaving Noah and lebron with little to no backups playing over 40 minutes a night. How would that effect them long term and eventually come playoff time? How would that effect the team in games where those players get into foul trouble?

I've said I think your team will be good and will make the playoffs. I just think that given the fact that I think the surrounding parts aren't as strong as the real life Cavs that Chicago will suffer similar and sooner playoff disappointments.

Eric Maynor has given no inclination that he's going to regress. The minutes he played were few and far between, and he conistently made the best of those. I am not really concerned about him not making the best of his minutes here.

I'd like to know the statistics on lets say 4 rookies who came over after an extensive overseas career that were older than 24 as of their first NBA game.

Typically if a player comes over when he is older, he does better. When he comes over while he is very young, he does poorly. I believe you have two players on your own team who would bolster that theory.

Even guys like Juan Carlos Navarro who didn't blow people away, still played easily at a rotation level, and he came over late.

I picked the players I picked because they are players that can fill a role. Asik, is the only one I am relying on for more than 5 minutes a game (and the "I don't care if it is 5 minutes" stuff is kind of ridiculous. I could just as easily erase those 5 minutes completely from my rookies, and my rotation would hardly change), and he's proving in the Fiba championships that he can fill that role. It is not much, in fact it is not 10 minutes a night, but he can play against the other teams' second string center for 8 minutes or so a night in the playoffs.

Also, before you say "the FIBA play doesn't mean anything", I'm not saying that by starting for the undefeated turkey team, he's proving he can start in the NBA. He's not. But, if the most recent accounts are accurate, and he is 7ft, with a 250 lb frame, long reach, and above average athleticism, that combined with his FiBA play leads me to think he can play some minutes at this level.


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like that is always lethal." - Evan 'The God' Turner

Re: Official Discuss your CB Draft team
« Reply #1149 on: September 07, 2010, 03:29:06 PM »

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I think Asik will be a very good third string center right away + a solid rotation player by his second season. I am just unsure of how he'll do in the immediate sense.

I haven't been watching much the FIBA tournament, outside of the odd game or two, and haven't seen Turkey play at all. So I don't know anything about his play there outside of his stat lines. Last I saw of Asik was the tournament two years ago.

Hopefully, I'll catch one of Turkey's remaining games and get some type of feel for what he can do next season in the NBA.

---------------------------------------------

Not that big a fan of Eric Maynor. I thought he was a below average backup PG last season. A defensive liability and an efficient offensive player. He did do a nice job running his team's offense though.

A serviceable backup PG but not a strength (depth wise).

Re: Official Discuss your CB Draft team
« Reply #1150 on: September 09, 2010, 08:10:22 AM »

Offline Fafnir

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I've actually made a specific forum account for voting Roy.

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Feel free to vote between now and Friday at 6:00. DO NOT SEND VOTES TO MY FAFNIR ACCOUNT, I will just delete them. You may not vote for your own team so just exclude them, and you are also required to vote for both conferences if you vote.

Voting is open to all Celticsblog members. GM teams may only vote once, I will be counting the first ballot I receive from each GM team.

Send them to CB Draft Voting.

Re: Official Discuss your CB Draft team
« Reply #1151 on: September 09, 2010, 08:19:33 AM »

Offline Roy H.

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I've actually made a specific forum account for voting Roy.

CB Draft Voting
Feel free to vote between now and Friday at 6:00. DO NOT SEND VOTES TO MY FAFNIR ACCOUNT, I will just delete them. You may not vote for your own team so just exclude them, and you are also required to vote for both conferences if you vote.

Voting is open to all Celticsblog members. GM teams may only vote once, I will be counting the first ballot I receive from each GM team.

Send them to CB Draft Voting.

Other guidelines:

* Ballots should be by Conference, ranked 1 through 15.

* The first three slots on a ballot do *not* need to be reserved for the three division winners; if you think the two best teams are in the same division, rank them 1st and second.

* GMs may *not* vote for their own team.  If a GM is participating in ranking of his own conference, his ballot should be ranked 1 through 14.  There should be no blank spots on the ballot, etc.; rankings should take place as if the GM's team did not exist.

* For teams with Co-GMs, only one ballot per team can be submitted.  If both co-GMs submit ballots, the first GM to have submitted a ballot will have his vote counted.

* The tie-breaker procedure is described in the CB Draft rules.

* The Commish may reject any ballot for any reason.  Incomplete ballots (that do not rank all teams) will not be counted.

* Seeding for playoff matchups will follow current NBA rules.  Home court advantage will be determined by playoff seed.


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Re: Official Discuss your CB Draft team
« Reply #1152 on: September 09, 2010, 08:41:19 AM »

Offline nickagneta

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Just a suggestion, but perhaps a new thread announcing where to vote as well as links to all the individual pressers and the roster thread might be a good idea, not only for GMs who want as much info before putting there ballots together but also to get word out to the general blog to come vote.

This just seems to be lost on the last page of one of many threads on the subject.

Re: Official Discuss your CB Draft team
« Reply #1153 on: September 09, 2010, 08:59:44 AM »

Offline StartOrien

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Just a suggestion, but perhaps a new thread announcing where to vote as well as links to all the individual pressers and the roster thread might be a good idea, not only for GMs who want as much info before putting there ballots together but also to get word out to the general blog to come vote.

This just seems to be lost on the last page of one of many threads on the subject.

Are the rosters on the 'official rosters & transactions' thread acurate?

Also, do we have to vote one team into our top 8 in each division?
« Last Edit: September 09, 2010, 09:06:12 AM by StartOrien »

Re: Official Discuss your CB Draft team
« Reply #1154 on: September 09, 2010, 09:22:07 AM »

Offline Fafnir

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Just a suggestion, but perhaps a new thread announcing where to vote as well as links to all the individual pressers and the roster thread might be a good idea, not only for GMs who want as much info before putting there ballots together but also to get word out to the general blog to come vote.

This just seems to be lost on the last page of one of many threads on the subject.

Are the rosters on the 'official rosters & transactions' thread acurate?

Also, do we have to vote one team into our top 8 in each division?
The rosters aren't accurate for all teams, I encourage every GM to check them.

When in doubt you should use their press conferences as a guide to their true roster.

You do not have to rank a team in each division in your top 8. Frankly though I'd demand some justification, I don't think there is a single division that lacks for a playoff team.