Anyone think the Celts are being frozen out?

[droopdog7]

Not the best choice of words but when I look at some of the trades that have happened recently, I can't help but wonder whether other teams are less likely to just dump a player of value to the Celts (as has seemingly happened this summer on a few occasions).  I'm not trying to be paranoid here but the idea that another team might help the Celts compete (and maybe win) a title with their help may not sit well with them.

In other words, when faced with two relatively equal propositions, are other teams more likely to choose a non-contending team rather than the Celts?  For example, trading for Sheed would have been an obvious salary dump in most scenerios.  Maybe other teams wouldn't do that in part because the Celts are seen as contenders?

Just a thought I had recently.

[Fafnir]

I don't think we have a whole lot of trade assets at this point to offer.

Additional I think Ainge is smelling the end of this current run and is likely very reluctant to give up first round picks going forward.

[indeedproceed]

Not the best choice of words but when I look at some of the trades that have happened recently, I can't help but wonder whether other teams are less likely to just dump a player of value to the Celts (as has seemingly happened this summer on a few occasions).  I'm not trying to be paranoid here but the idea that another team might help the Celts compete (and maybe win) a title with their help may not sit well with them.

In other words, when faced with two relatively equal propositions, are other teams more likely to choose a non-contending team rather than the Celts?  For example, trading for Sheed would have been an obvious salary dump in most scenerios.  Maybe other teams wouldn't do that in part because the Celts are seen as contenders?

Just a thought I had recently.

If it were a competitive Eastern Conference team, absolutely. They'd rather ship their asset to a team that is either in the West or not currently competitive. Nothing worse than trading a guy away to a rival then having him torch you for 10 years because you underestimated his talent level.

But in terms of trades like the one we just saw (Ariza)...we weren't selling what they were buying.

[Chris]

I don't think we have a whole lot of trade assets at this point to offer.

Yeah, I don't think there is any evidence of this theory, since all of the "salary dumps" we have seen lately that people have lamented about, involved pieces the C's simply couldn't compete with.

The C's did not have a Carl Landry to trade for Kevin Martin, they didn't have a Courtney Lee (who I believe Morey absolutely targeted individually) to get Ariza, they didn't have non-guaranteed contracts to get Richard Jefferson, they didn't have immediate cap space to get Al Jefferson.

Not to mention the fact that Danny is not willing to take on bad salaries to get mediocre talent. 

[oldmanspeaks]

This has been an incredibly weird offseason. I always pay attention to the finance side of sports and teams who supposedly had financial problems offered a LOT of money to average players. And as for trades, the Celtics didn't have a lot to offer. Trading away future draft picks for a mediocre player is simply a long term franchise killer. For instance giving up a "1" for Fernandez is acceptable but if the rumor that Portland wanted two "1s" is true, that is insane for franchise with older players.
I have a very strong feeling that all those teams that gave long term contracts to average players are going to regret it when the union/NBA finally agree on a new contract. My guess is that there will be one year unlimited but after that there will be restrictions of some sort. Any team with big salaries will be extremely limited and will have to give away good draft picks to unload them.

[guava_wrench]

It seems to me that Danny tried to avoid desperation moves and we didn't really have anything to offer in the first place.

[Tai]

This has been an incredibly weird offseason. I always pay attention to the finance side of sports and teams who supposedly had financial problems offered a LOT of money to average players. And as for trades, the Celtics didn't have a lot to offer. Trading away future draft picks for a mediocre player is simply a long term franchise killer. For instance giving up a "1" for Fernandez is acceptable but if the rumor that Portland wanted two "1s" is true, that is insane for franchise with older players.
I have a very strong feeling that all those teams that gave long term contracts to average players are going to regret it when the union/NBA finally agree on a new contract. My guess is that there will be one year unlimited but after that there will be restrictions of some sort. Any team with big salaries will be extremely limited and will have to give away good draft picks to unload them.

I doubt the Blazers wanted two first rounders for Rudy, or they're stupid. Simple as that.

As far as your second paragraph, this is pretty much this summer in a nutshell, and I can't say I disagree with any of it. TP for you, and hell, TP for Danny for not falling into that trap like so many other teams have. We'll be thanking him much later; I'm sure of it.

[Who]

This has been an incredibly weird offseason. I always pay attention to the finance side of sports and teams who supposedly had financial problems offered a LOT of money to average players. And as for trades, the Celtics didn't have a lot to offer. Trading away future draft picks for a mediocre player is simply a long term franchise killer. For instance giving up a "1" for Fernandez is acceptable but if the rumor that Portland wanted two "1s" is true, that is insane for franchise with older players.
I have a very strong feeling that all those teams that gave long term contracts to average players are going to regret it when the union/NBA finally agree on a new contract. My guess is that there will be one year unlimited but after that there will be restrictions of some sort. Any team with big salaries will be extremely limited and will have to give away good draft picks to unload them.

I doubt the Blazers wanted two first rounders for Rudy, or they're stupid. Simple as that.

As far as your second paragraph, this is pretty much this summer in a nutshell, and I can't say I disagree with any of it. TP for you, and hell, TP for Danny for not falling into that trap like so many other teams have. We'll be thanking him much later; I'm sure of it.

My guess is that the Blazers wanted either (1) a mid first round pick in the 11-17 range, or, (2) a late first round pick plus another asset (young player, serviceable veteran or early second round pick).

They haven't been able to get either offer yet so they've kept hold of Rudy.

[Chris]

This has been an incredibly weird offseason. I always pay attention to the finance side of sports and teams who supposedly had financial problems offered a LOT of money to average players. And as for trades, the Celtics didn't have a lot to offer. Trading away future draft picks for a mediocre player is simply a long term franchise killer. For instance giving up a "1" for Fernandez is acceptable but if the rumor that Portland wanted two "1s" is true, that is insane for franchise with older players.
I have a very strong feeling that all those teams that gave long term contracts to average players are going to regret it when the union/NBA finally agree on a new contract. My guess is that there will be one year unlimited but after that there will be restrictions of some sort. Any team with big salaries will be extremely limited and will have to give away good draft picks to unload them.

I doubt the Blazers wanted two first rounders for Rudy, or they're stupid. Simple as that.

As far as your second paragraph, this is pretty much this summer in a nutshell, and I can't say I disagree with any of it. TP for you, and hell, TP for Danny for not falling into that trap like so many other teams have. We'll be thanking him much later; I'm sure of it.

My guess is that the Blazers wanted either (1) a mid first round pick in the 11-17 range, or, (2) a late first round pick plus another asset (young player, serviceable veteran or early second round pick).

They haven't been able to get either offer yet so they've kept hold of Rudy.

Let's also remember, the Blazers have been notorious for overrating their young players, and being gunshy on trading them.  It is a new regime in there now, but it looks like that hasn't changed.

[clover]

Not the best choice of words but when I look at some of the trades that have happened recently, I can't help but wonder whether other teams are less likely to just dump a player of value to the Celts (as has seemingly happened this summer on a few occasions).  I'm not trying to be paranoid here but the idea that another team might help the Celts compete (and maybe win) a title with their help may not sit well with them.

In other words, when faced with two relatively equal propositions, are other teams more likely to choose a non-contending team rather than the Celts?  For example, trading for Sheed would have been an obvious salary dump in most scenerios.  Maybe other teams wouldn't do that in part because the Celts are seen as contenders?

Just a thought I had recently.

You wouldn't be a Boston sports fan if you weren't paranoid (seems to go with the Harbor water), but I don't think any contenders want to really help other contenders: it's a two-way speed bump.

[Greenbean]

To the OP...I have had flashes of paranoia this offseason myself but recently have tried to use reason when analyzing these trades. Bottom line is we are willing to take on short term contracts only. We have managed to put together a contending roster while maintaining some flexibility after 2012.Pierce's guaranteed 4 year contract will still hurt but not cripple the cap space. We also did not give up any picks. We are well positioned for 2 more years of elite basketball followed by decent flexibility to rebuild.

The Old Man said it best though (TP). Plenty of dumb signings this summer. I am glad we did not get sucked into anything. I am going to trust Danny has done due diligence on these players.

[rickyfan3.0...]

ONLY THING BEING FROZEN IS MY FREAKING COMPUTER EVERY TIME I LOG ONTO THIS SITE!

What's the deal with that? Too many banner ads? Jeez. Half the time I try to log on now, it knocks off my whole browser. I hate even coming on anymore...

...But yes they are kind of being underrated this year.

[hpantazo]

To the OP...I have had flashes of paranoia this offseason myself but recently have tried to use reason when analyzing these trades. Bottom line is we are willing to take on short term contracts only. We have managed to put together a contending roster while maintaining some flexibility after 2012.Pierce's guaranteed 4 year contract will still hurt but not cripple the cap space. We also did not give up any picks. We are well positioned for 2 more years of elite basketball followed by decent flexibility to rebuild.

The Old Man said it best though (TP). Plenty of dumb signings this summer. I am glad we did not get sucked into anything. I am going to trust Danny has done due diligence on these players.

I think you made all of the correct points, all of them based on Ainge looking to the future. There is no reason for teams to single out the celtics when thinking that they don't want to help another team win, since the last two titles were won by the lakers and the heat are the favorites this year, the celtics would be too far down the list for strong consideration. Also, most of the teams making these trades are not going to win in the next two years, so what do they care if they help us win or not as long as they get what they want?

[Snakehead]

This has been an incredibly weird offseason. I always pay attention to the finance side of sports and teams who supposedly had financial problems offered a LOT of money to average players. And as for trades, the Celtics didn't have a lot to offer. Trading away future draft picks for a mediocre player is simply a long term franchise killer. For instance giving up a "1" for Fernandez is acceptable but if the rumor that Portland wanted two "1s" is true, that is insane for franchise with older players.
I have a very strong feeling that all those teams that gave long term contracts to average players are going to regret it when the union/NBA finally agree on a new contract. My guess is that there will be one year unlimited but after that there will be restrictions of some sort. Any team with big salaries will be extremely limited and will have to give away good draft picks to unload them.

I doubt the Blazers wanted two first rounders for Rudy, or they're stupid. Simple as that.

As far as your second paragraph, this is pretty much this summer in a nutshell, and I can't say I disagree with any of it. TP for you, and hell, TP for Danny for not falling into that trap like so many other teams have. We'll be thanking him much later; I'm sure of it.

My guess is that the Blazers wanted either (1) a mid first round pick in the 11-17 range, or, (2) a late first round pick plus another asset (young player, serviceable veteran or early second round pick).

They haven't been able to get either offer yet so they've kept hold of Rudy.

Let's also remember, the Blazers have been notorious for overrating their young players, and being gunshy on trading them.  It is a new regime in there now, but it looks like that hasn't changed.

Maybe they overrate him... but more likely they just want to see if they can get more.  That's shrewd GM work, can't fault them.

I think we have probably just offered a 1st for Rudy and are waiting for them to give in and accept the offer.

As for the idea of being froze out, I think we don't have many assets but I do think other teams would avoid trading us assets as well if they can.  Especially multi team deals like the one that got done the other day, those could help us make a move but I'm sure teams don't really want to help us out.  But we probably don't have any offers that can really be too mutually benefitial at this point... I was surprised we couldn't get something done with Sheed's contract though.