Press Conference Schedule is Up! 2010 Celticsblog Draft: Draft Board

[Gainesville Celtic]

rumor has it that, yes, Chris Paul is STILL a superstar and that DEN has submitted as many as two trades to the commish for approval.

And none of these deals involve anyone currently being hotly debated  

[Roy H.]

That "either way" player allows one the flexibility in later rounds to adjust and alter depending on how the draft shapes up. You can underrate it all you want but GM's here think about that.

Doing so risks being caught in a no man's land, in my opinion.  It's always good to maintain flexibility, but given the chance between an elite guy like Duncan or Dirk, or a younger guy like Brook Lopez, I'm going with the established superstar every time (especially with a guy like Duncan).

Tim Duncan + four decent (but not great) guys would make the playoffs.  Brook Lopez + four decent (but not great) guys wins less than 30 games.

I didn't have a chance at Duncan.

Yeah, just using an example about "win now" versus playing it both ways. 

In your particular circumstance, I probably would have Dirk, although Deron and Bosh would have been viable, too.  Again, though, if you're a true believer in Lopez, it's all good; he's certainly productive.

[Roy H.]

Two trades to announce:


DEN (GC) sends 3.30, 5.30
ATL (Kwhit) sends 4.23, 6.2, 6.15


DEN (GC) trades 3.11, 5.1, 11.11, 13.11

POR (Jsaad) trades 3.5, 5.11, 11.21, 13.21

Both seem pretty even to me.

[JSD]

That "either way" player allows one the flexibility in later rounds to adjust and alter depending on how the draft shapes up. You can underrate it all you want but GM's here think about that.

Doing so risks being caught in a no man's land, in my opinion.  It's always good to maintain flexibility, but given the chance between an elite guy like Duncan or Dirk, or a younger guy like Brook Lopez, I'm going with the established superstar every time (especially with a guy like Duncan).

Tim Duncan + four decent (but not great) guys would make the playoffs.  Brook Lopez + four decent (but not great) guys wins less than 30 games.

I didn't have a chance at Duncan.

Yeah, just using an example about "win now" versus playing it both ways. 

In your particular circumstance, I probably would have Dirk, although Deron and Bosh would have been viable, too.  Again, though, if you're a true believer in Lopez, it's all good; he's certainly productive.

I see what you're saying and that's fine. I view Lopez as a top 5 Center in the league at 22 years old.

[action781]

That "either way" player allows one the flexibility in later rounds to adjust and alter depending on how the draft shapes up. You can underrate it all you want but GM's here think about that.

Doing so risks being caught in a no man's land, in my opinion.  It's always good to maintain flexibility, but given the chance between an elite guy like Duncan or Dirk, or a younger guy like Brook Lopez, I'm going with the established superstar every time (especially with a guy like Duncan).

Tim Duncan + four decent (but not great) guys would make the playoffs.  Brook Lopez + four decent (but not great) guys wins less than 30 games.

Again, it's my opinion only, but I think teams that deviated from the "top 11" handicapped themselves a bit.

Agree completely.  Replace Duncan with Lopez on any team and you lose 10 wins minimum.

[action781]

Why do I have the 23rd pick two days in a row?

We did a "modified" snake draft this year.  Teams that pick at the top of the first round pick at the bottom of the second and third rounds, and back to the top at the fourth round.

The reasoning is that since the teams with the top picks have historically placed higher in the voting, we'd do something to cancel out that inherent advantage a bit.

I haven't chimed in on this so I want to now:

I understand the idea behind it but feel it screws those falling out of the top 5 to about the 12 or 13th pick... Like me. Only the top 5 should have been penalized, just one mans opinion anyway.

There were some fairly elite guys who dropped as far as #20 this year.  I mean, Amare was 2nd team All-NBA, and despite his reputation, his team went deep into the playoffs.

It's really the final ten that have the roughest disadvantage, and they're the ones this modified snake benefits most.

As someone picking 28th for the 2nd year in a row, this is a blessing. 

The people this really benefited were the guys who drafted after pick 20 and traded back. They were ideally going superior depth over elite talent anyways, so having that early 3rd round pick meant that one trade they probably would've needed to make anyways (moving up in the 3rd, probably at the expense of their 4th and even their 5th) was already made for them anyways, and completely in their favor.

Duncan, Dirk, Bosh, Carmelo, Deron are all on (or should now be considered) that 2nd Tier and half eliminate you from "Future" contention.

I'd argue that Deron is the best pg in the league.

I think it goes:

Surefire Franchise guys:
LeBron
Durant
Kobe
Wade
Howard
(not in that order)

Then "Guys who can be a number one option on a finals team"
Duncan
Dirk
Carmelo
Deron
CP3

EDIT: and that's all using the "you need a superstar to win a title" formula. If you are going depth, none of these guys are necessary to win, you just need to be stronger all over.

Agree with this post completely also, IP.  I'd think Deron is on the bubble here though and if that list was ordered, than Dirk would be at the bottom.  Also I think Melo and CP3 are on the bubble of making that first tier.  If you asked me last summer they would have been and I feel like it's performance last season and not ability that have moved them down.  Duncan on the other hand has dropped down a tier in the past season because of declining ability.

[Lucky17]

"Guys who can be a number one option on a finals team"
Duncan
Dirk
Carmelo
Deron
CP3

So, does Paul Pierce belong on that list?

If not, are we just deluding ourselves that Banner 18 is in the near future? Or are we banking everything on Rondo making a quantum leap?

[Q_FBE]

Is it too late to enter - Seattle desperately needs to be represented here. I would like to call my team The Sonics Memorial.

[The Walker Wiggle]

I believe the Philadelphia 76ers franchise is still available. And I for one would be willing to support relocation in this instance.

I'd send a message to Fafnir or Roy and check back in tomorrow morning when both should be online.

[action781]

"Guys who can be a number one option on a finals team"
Duncan
Dirk
Carmelo
Deron
CP3

So, does Paul Pierce belong on that list?

If not, are we just deluding ourselves that Banner 18 is in the near future? Or are we banking everything on Rondo making a quantum leap?

Interesting mention.  I think the celtics of '08 and the celtics of next season will be more of a team effort to win a championship than relying on a #1 option.  I think instead of "can be the number 1 option" it would be more appropriately (while verbosely) named "can be relied on as a number 1 option".  Even Pierce said that down 2 at the end of a game that Ray should take the final shot, not him.  Those guys on that list could win a title while refusing to defer to a teammate for the final shot (unless dishing out the necessary assist).

Otherwise, you'd have to technically include Chauncey Billups on that list too, right?  It could be argued that Billups and Pierce were not the most important players on their teams.  I'm not sure either could win a title on a team that they were undisputably the most important player.  The players above could be.  Although I don't necessarily put Deron in that list.

[Gainesville Celtic]

Don't know if anyone remember's the 2009 ORLANDO MAGICS' patented

DEAL(S) OF THE CENTURY
during last year's CBlog Draft, but rumor has it that the DENVER NUGGGETZ have taken a page from their book and are set to announce an absolute BLOCKBUSTER in the morning!

[Roy H.]

There has been another trade:

DEN sends 3.5, 4.20
DET sends 3.4, 4.27

[nickagneta]

Well I see more and more owners are coming out with draft tiers similar to mine and making the debate I had on day one more and more credible.

The first talent tier was five guys this year, not 12-14 guys like in years past

LeBron, Durant, Wade, Howard, Kobe.

After that there were probably about 15-18 guys that were in the next tier level

After that I had a tier level that went to about the 20th pick in the second and then a large one that goes from there until almost the fifth round.

I had this discussion with Faf. The idea of where tiers start and where they end is significant in judging the fairness of trades, IMO. Like yesterday, I though there was one trade that should absolutely not have gone through because the person trading up gave up way, way too much in a very very lopsided trade. If trade vetoes go to protect players from giving up too little they should also be for giving up too much.

[Roy H.]

The first talent tier was five guys this year, not 12-14 guys like in years past

LeBron, Durant, Wade, Howard, Kobe.

After that there were probably about 15-18 guys that were in the next tier level

You think Tim Duncan and Chris Paul are on the same tier as Brook Lopez, Rajon Rondo, and Danny Granger? 

I couldn't disagree more.  They're all good players, but the first two are much better.  (Presumably, that's why you tried to move up to #6, rather than, say, #18.)

[Who]

The first talent tier was five guys this year, not 12-14 guys like in years past

LeBron, Durant, Wade, Howard, Kobe.

After that there were probably about 15-18 guys that were in the next tier level

You think Tim Duncan and Chris Paul are on the same tier as Brook Lopez, Rajon Rondo, and Danny Granger? 

I couldn't disagree more.  They're all good players, but the first two are much better.  (Presumably, that's why you tried to move up to #6, rather than, say, #18.)

I agree with Nick except I'd drop Kobe Bryant down to the next tier too. I think there are only four MVP caliber talents in the league today (Bron, Dwight, Wade, Durant).

I would put players like Deron Williams, Pau Gasol, Chris Bosh, Dirk Nowitzki and Brandon Roy in the same tier as Kobe Bryant and Chris Paul.

A couple of near calls with players like Duncan, Yao and Ginobili too who could also be included in that tier or dropped a level below.