I Want My Posey Back!!!

[housecall]

Ive noticed from the time Posey left there has been a large number of naysayers on CB aganist him.A lot of its been he's to old,slow,etc...i wonder how many games have the people who are aganist him have actaully watched him play in.I bet its been a handful by most.Im not advocating bringing him back at this time but my reasons are all different from most,its  more the financial part of it that might not be good for the franchise.If Danny saw a way to make it work without messing with the 2012 season then i wouldn't be opposed to it.

  I saw him play the Celts last year. I thought Scal clearly outplayed him.

You are making my point,a game here and there doesn't tell you anything.It only says he probably had a subpar game and Scal did ok that night.However i watched at least 40-50 games Posey played in this past season.In the early part of the season he won some games for them.He played injured through a long stretch also.If his stats are down,its not because he's had this tremendous drop off,there are other factors go into it.Like the team took a different coach on midway through the season,with CP3 going down twice,it took on a new look and the offense changed a lot.Im not saying Posey is the same player from 2008 but he can still contribute in a big way from the bench.A lot of his game is between the ears,something a younger more athletic player doesn't always   have. 

[BballTim]

Ive noticed from the time Posey left there has been a large number of naysayers on CB aganist him.A lot of its been he's to old,slow,etc...i wonder how many games have the people who are aganist him have actaully watched him play in.I bet its been a handful by most.Im not advocating bringing him back at this time but my reasons are all different from most,its  more the financial part of it that might not be good for the franchise.If Danny saw a way to make it work without messing with the 2012 season then i wouldn't be opposed to it.

  I saw him play the Celts last year. I thought Scal clearly outplayed him.

You are making my point,a game here and there doesn't tell you anything.It only says he probably had a subpar game and Scal did ok that night.However i watched at least 40-50 games Posey played in this past season.In the early part of the season he won some games for them.He played injured through a long stretch also.If his stats are down,its not because he's had this tremendous drop off,there are other factors go into it.Like the team took a different coach on midway through the season,with CP3 going down twice,it took on a new look and the offense changed a lot.Im not saying Posey is the same player from 2008 but he can still contribute in a big way from the bench.A lot of his game is between the ears,something a younger more athletic player doesn't always   have. 

  I didn't say that was the only game I saw him play in. You watched him enough to see that he isn't the same player that he was in 2008, but you don't think that has anything to do with his drop in production? You could see him starting to lose his athleticism during the season in 2008. Not to mention that next year he'll be somewhat *less* athletic than he was even last year. How do you think he'll look in 2011-2012, when they'd be paying him $7M or so?

  Posey signed a 4 year contract 2 years ago. The contract goes up over time while he gets older. His best value year is the first year when he's playing the best and making the least. His lowest value year is year 4 when his level of play is dropping and his pay is increasing. Danny wanted to sign him to a 2 year contract after the 08 season but was willing to offer him a 3rd year even though Ainge didn't think he'd be worth the money by then. In effect, we'd be splitting his contract with N.O., where they get the good years for less money and we get the bad years for more money. No thanks.

[ThaPreacher]

James Posey isn't walking through that door, and if he is he'll be old and gray

Danny didn't want to sign Posey at that money.  However, he didn't want the years, which is what two left on the contract.

Too much green for Posey, he'll be in the Bayou eatin Cajun!

[timepiece33]

Danny didn't want to sign Posey at that money.  However, he didn't want the years, which is what two left on the contract.

Too much green for Posey, he'll be in the Bayou eatin Cajun!

While I get when people bring up this point, Danny was looking at "flexibility".   Two years ago, Danny was positioning himself to have the option to let go of Pierce and Allen to go after a younger star.   He chose not to do it, but with Posey at 4 years, that would have eliminated that flexibility.

IMO, he is now doing something similar at the end of 2 years, which is why almost all of his major contracts (outside of Pierce and Rondo) end at that point.

I'd be very open to Posey and Pondexter for Wallace.  IMO, you get a valuable young wing AND a veteran backup SF.   Posey's 2 year contract is a benefit AND I'm not sure if Danny is going to give up the flexibility, since going after a better option will likely lock us out of the market in 2 years. 

[BballTim]

Danny didn't want to sign Posey at that money.  However, he didn't want the years, which is what two left on the contract.

Too much green for Posey, he'll be in the Bayou eatin Cajun!

While I get when people bring up this point, Danny was looking at "flexibility".   Two years ago, Danny was positioning himself to have the option to let go of Pierce and Allen to go after a younger star.   He chose not to do it, but with Posey at 4 years, that would have eliminated that flexibility.

  I remember hearing Ainge on the radio say that they wanted Posey for two years, but they were willing to offer him a 3rd year to get him even though he didn't think Posey would be worth the money by the third year.

[Witch-King]

James Posey was a huge reason why we won it all in 2008; however, so was Antoine, and Leon Powe. 

[Q_FBE]

I thought we have Marquis Daniels to do that job.

I don't see Posey coming back here.

In fact I think Avery Bradley is more likely to find a role doing something similar to what Tony Allen did when he played here.

[Jon]

I still think that most of this board has wildly too high expectations of what we can get for Rasheed's deal.  It'd be one thing if he was a 20 million dollar expiring deal, but for the 6-7 million dollar price tag, teams are only really going to dump players they have no interest in retaining.  Thus, we're likely not getting given Shane Battier.  Saving 6 million a year doesn't justify doing that for Houston. 

The only way I see that changing is if we start throwing in more (like BBD), and then we're starting to hurt the team in other ways. 

Like I said in my first post, I'd love to be pleasantly surprised and see some team give us a nice 3 like Batter for Rasheed.  But I don't see that happening.  If Danny starts to find that's the case, I'd like him to trade for Posey.  I think we'd be a better team with him than without him. 

And while I don't expect N.O. to give us an unprotected pick, I'd take a lottery protected pick from them.  It could be an OK asset to have in the future. 

[housecall]

Ive noticed from the time Posey left there has been a large number of naysayers on CB aganist him.A lot of its been he's to old,slow,etc...i wonder how many games have the people who are aganist him have actaully watched him play in.I bet its been a handful by most.Im not advocating bringing him back at this time but my reasons are all different from most,its  more the financial part of it that might not be good for the franchise.If Danny saw a way to make it work without messing with the 2012 season then i wouldn't be opposed to it.

  I saw him play the Celts last year. I thought Scal clearly outplayed him.

You are making my point,a game here and there doesn't tell you anything.It only says he probably had a subpar game and Scal did ok that night.However i watched at least 40-50 games Posey played in this past season.In the early part of the season he won some games for them.He played injured through a long stretch also.If his stats are down,its not because he's had this tremendous drop off,there are other factors go into it.Like the team took a different coach on midway through the season,with CP3 going down twice,it took on a new look and the offense changed a lot.Im not saying Posey is the same player from 2008 but he can still contribute in a big way from the bench.A lot of his game is between the ears,something a younger more athletic player doesn't always   have. 

  I didn't say that was the only game I saw him play in. You watched him enough to see that he isn't the same player that he was in 2008, but you don't think that has anything to do with his drop in production? You could see him starting to lose his athleticism during the season in 2008. Not to mention that next year he'll be somewhat *less* athletic than he was even last year. How do you think he'll look in 2011-2012, when they'd be paying him $7M or so?

  Posey signed a 4 year contract 2 years ago. The contract goes up over time while he gets older. His best value year is the first year when he's playing the best and making the least. His lowest value year is year 4 when his level of play is dropping and his pay is increasing. Danny wanted to sign him to a 2 year contract after the 08 season but was willing to offer him a 3rd year even though Ainge didn't think he'd be worth the money by then. In effect, we'd be splitting his contract with N.O., where they get the good years for less money and we get the bad years for more money. No thanks.

In the original post i said if Danny could make it work without messing with the future...i already know the history of it.

[Jon]

Ive noticed from the time Posey left there has been a large number of naysayers on CB aganist him.A lot of its been he's to old,slow,etc...i wonder how many games have the people who are aganist him have actaully watched him play in.I bet its been a handful by most.Im not advocating bringing him back at this time but my reasons are all different from most,its  more the financial part of it that might not be good for the franchise.If Danny saw a way to make it work without messing with the 2012 season then i wouldn't be opposed to it.

  I saw him play the Celts last year. I thought Scal clearly outplayed him.

You are making my point,a game here and there doesn't tell you anything.It only says he probably had a subpar game and Scal did ok that night.However i watched at least 40-50 games Posey played in this past season.In the early part of the season he won some games for them.He played injured through a long stretch also.If his stats are down,its not because he's had this tremendous drop off,there are other factors go into it.Like the team took a different coach on midway through the season,with CP3 going down twice,it took on a new look and the offense changed a lot.Im not saying Posey is the same player from 2008 but he can still contribute in a big way from the bench.A lot of his game is between the ears,something a younger more athletic player doesn't always   have. 

  I didn't say that was the only game I saw him play in. You watched him enough to see that he isn't the same player that he was in 2008, but you don't think that has anything to do with his drop in production? You could see him starting to lose his athleticism during the season in 2008. Not to mention that next year he'll be somewhat *less* athletic than he was even last year. How do you think he'll look in 2011-2012, when they'd be paying him $7M or so?

  Posey signed a 4 year contract 2 years ago. The contract goes up over time while he gets older. His best value year is the first year when he's playing the best and making the least. His lowest value year is year 4 when his level of play is dropping and his pay is increasing. Danny wanted to sign him to a 2 year contract after the 08 season but was willing to offer him a 3rd year even though Ainge didn't think he'd be worth the money by then. In effect, we'd be splitting his contract with N.O., where they get the good years for less money and we get the bad years for more money. No thanks.

In the original post i said if Danny could make it work without messing with the future...i already know the history of it.

You're looking at his value objectively.  But given our short window of opportunity and lack of other options, we need to look at it subjectively. 

I couldn't careless of Posey is worse than Mikki Moore in 2011-2012 if he helps us win #18 this year. 

We still need a big 3 who can defend and hit the 3.  Posey can do that.  Unless something better comes, we should consider reacquiring him. 

[nickagneta]

I still think that most of this board has wildly too high expectations of what we can get for Rasheed's deal.  It'd be one thing if he was a 20 million dollar expiring deal, but for the 6-7 million dollar price tag, teams are only really going to dump players they have no interest in retaining.  Thus, we're likely not getting given Shane Battier.  Saving 6 million a year doesn't justify doing that for Houston. 

The only way I see that changing is if we start throwing in more (like BBD), and then we're starting to hurt the team in other ways. 

Like I said in my first post, I'd love to be pleasantly surprised and see some team give us a nice 3 like Batter for Rasheed.  But I don't see that happening.  If Danny starts to find that's the case, I'd like him to trade for Posey.  I think we'd be a better team with him than without him. 

And while I don't expect N.O. to give us an unprotected pick, I'd take a lottery protected pick from them.  It could be an OK asset to have in the future. 

And I will keep saying that you are mistaking summer time patience(remember we are still almost three months away from the start of the season and two months from training camp) with a lack of value that Rasheed's contract can bring.

Remember, when he is traded, Gaffney's and Lafayette's non guaranteed contracts will probably also go and that with the combined amount of contract worth and the fact a team could send up to 25% and $100K more than that level back to the Celtics, you are talking about a massive savings to a team that could move that amount of money closer to or under the luxury tax.

Houston, for instance, is $8.3 million of the luxury tax. Moving the max amount of salary they could to the Celtics, nearly $9.9 million, would mean not having to pay $9.9 million in salary, not having to pay $8.3 million in luxury tax and becoming eligible for possibly over $4 million in luxury escrow payments. That's means $22.2 million more in the owner's pockets in Houston.

That is gigantic incentive to do a Rasheed deal with Boston and one a team is probably going to do before the season starts.

[BballTim]

Ive noticed from the time Posey left there has been a large number of naysayers on CB aganist him.A lot of its been he's to old,slow,etc...i wonder how many games have the people who are aganist him have actaully watched him play in.I bet its been a handful by most.Im not advocating bringing him back at this time but my reasons are all different from most,its  more the financial part of it that might not be good for the franchise.If Danny saw a way to make it work without messing with the 2012 season then i wouldn't be opposed to it.

  I saw him play the Celts last year. I thought Scal clearly outplayed him.

You are making my point,a game here and there doesn't tell you anything.It only says he probably had a subpar game and Scal did ok that night.However i watched at least 40-50 games Posey played in this past season.In the early part of the season he won some games for them.He played injured through a long stretch also.If his stats are down,its not because he's had this tremendous drop off,there are other factors go into it.Like the team took a different coach on midway through the season,with CP3 going down twice,it took on a new look and the offense changed a lot.Im not saying Posey is the same player from 2008 but he can still contribute in a big way from the bench.A lot of his game is between the ears,something a younger more athletic player doesn't always   have. 

  I didn't say that was the only game I saw him play in. You watched him enough to see that he isn't the same player that he was in 2008, but you don't think that has anything to do with his drop in production? You could see him starting to lose his athleticism during the season in 2008. Not to mention that next year he'll be somewhat *less* athletic than he was even last year. How do you think he'll look in 2011-2012, when they'd be paying him $7M or so?

  Posey signed a 4 year contract 2 years ago. The contract goes up over time while he gets older. His best value year is the first year when he's playing the best and making the least. His lowest value year is year 4 when his level of play is dropping and his pay is increasing. Danny wanted to sign him to a 2 year contract after the 08 season but was willing to offer him a 3rd year even though Ainge didn't think he'd be worth the money by then. In effect, we'd be splitting his contract with N.O., where they get the good years for less money and we get the bad years for more money. No thanks.

In the original post i said if Danny could make it work without messing with the future...i already know the history of it.

You're looking at his value objectively.  But given our short window of opportunity and lack of other options, we need to look at it subjectively. 

I couldn't careless of Posey is worse than Mikki Moore in 2011-2012 if he helps us win #18 this year. 

We still need a big 3 who can defend and hit the 3.  Posey can do that.  Unless something better comes, we should consider reacquiring him. 

  Posey could do that in 2008. Can he in 2011? His fg% has dropped 3 years in a row, his 3 point fg% has dropped the last 2 years, and his defense isn't getting any better. If his 3 point shooting drops as much next year as it did last year he'd be right in the middle of Scal and Sheed's fg% on them.

[Jon]

I still think that most of this board has wildly too high expectations of what we can get for Rasheed's deal.  It'd be one thing if he was a 20 million dollar expiring deal, but for the 6-7 million dollar price tag, teams are only really going to dump players they have no interest in retaining.  Thus, we're likely not getting given Shane Battier.  Saving 6 million a year doesn't justify doing that for Houston. 

The only way I see that changing is if we start throwing in more (like BBD), and then we're starting to hurt the team in other ways. 

Like I said in my first post, I'd love to be pleasantly surprised and see some team give us a nice 3 like Batter for Rasheed.  But I don't see that happening.  If Danny starts to find that's the case, I'd like him to trade for Posey.  I think we'd be a better team with him than without him. 

And while I don't expect N.O. to give us an unprotected pick, I'd take a lottery protected pick from them.  It could be an OK asset to have in the future. 

And I will keep saying that you are mistaking summer time patience(remember we are still almost three months away from the start of the season and two months from training camp) with a lack of value that Rasheed's contract can bring.

Remember, when he is traded, Gaffney's and Lafayette's non guaranteed contracts will probably also go and that with the combined amount of contract worth and the fact a team could send up to 25% and $100K more than that level back to the Celtics, you are talking about a massive savings to a team that could move that amount of money closer to or under the luxury tax.

Houston, for instance, is $8.3 million of the luxury tax. Moving the max amount of salary they could to the Celtics, nearly $9.9 million, would mean not having to pay $9.9 million in salary, not having to pay $8.3 million in luxury tax and becoming eligible for possibly over $4 million in luxury escrow payments. That's means $22.2 million more in the owner's pockets in Houston.

That is gigantic incentive to do a Rasheed deal with Boston and one a team is probably going to do before the season starts.

I hope you're right. 

However, unlike the summer time patience of the free agent market (like with Shaq, where we waited for him to realize that he wasn't getting more than the minimum from anyone), what type of market is going to develop for Sheed?

Any team looking to dump salary already knows darn well what salary they have to dump. 

But even more than that, I'm not sold that teams are willing to give away good players for salary cap relief unless one of the following three scenarios take place:

1) The team has zero hope that they can make the playoffs.  If that's the case, we can cross off all but a handful of teams and guys like Shane Battier off the list. 

2) The player has a long deal.  And the longer, the more likely they are to trade.  However, many of the guys we're excited about on the board (Battier and Prince) only have 1 year left and thus don't give their teams that much savings.  I think the more likely player that Detroit would be willing to dump is Hamilton, but he has three years left and could screw Danny's plans in the summer of 2012. 

3) We throw in something nice in addition.  A pick might do it.  Perk or BBD probably would definitely do it. 

Ultimately, the reason that the Posey deal is appealing to me is that he's a player the New Orlean's probably doesn't see itself needing to be a playoff team, so they don't have to disappoint a fan base trading him away.  He also only has a two year deal, so he fits in with the time frame.  And not only would we not have to give up anything in addition to Sheed, we could probably get some sort of protected first round pick from them. 

Again, I don't expect him to be '08 Posey, but we wouldn't need him to be.  With our big men up front, we won't need him to play the 4.  And with Daniels, Wafer, and Bradley around, he won't have to play the 2.  All he'd do is play 15 mpg or so during the regular season backing up PP, and probably 10 mpg in the playoffs.  And I think he can probably still do that. 

[Rondo_is_better]

This topic is talked to death for absolutely no reason... he's pretty awful now. He also STILL has the contract that we refused to sign...trading for him now would be enormously stupid, since his prime years are now over.