Author Topic: Shaq Signs with the Celts (Official per Celtics.com; Report: 2 years, $2.8 mil)  (Read 28389 times)

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Re: Shaq takes Minimum to sign with the C's
« Reply #30 on: August 04, 2010, 11:18:12 AM »

Offline kozlodoev

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anyone who is against this signing has to be ignorant to the team's needs
Anyone who is FOR that signing is ignorant to the team's needs.

how? A veterean rebounding big man who can score in the paint for the vet min, how can you go wrong with that? Especially when alternatives where Kwame Brown or Semih Erden.
Calling Shaq a "rebounding" big man is extremely charitable, given that he averaged 5 rebounds in 23 minutes per game in the playoffs last season. We got roughly the same production from Leon Powe, who was 6'7 and playing on two bad knees.
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Re: Shaq takes Minimum to sign with the C's
« Reply #31 on: August 04, 2010, 11:19:54 AM »

Offline OmarSekou

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I didn't like it, but I also didn't think Shaq would take the minimum. Either way everyone better get on board quick. At the very least it will be interesting. And it could be very rewarding.
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Re: Shaq takes Minimum to sign with the C's
« Reply #32 on: August 04, 2010, 11:26:55 AM »

Offline Evantime34

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People who don't like this signing aren't ignorant of the team's needs they are ignorant of what is available now at what the Celtics are able to offer.
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Re: Shaq takes Minimum to sign with the C's
« Reply #33 on: August 04, 2010, 11:28:05 AM »

Offline kozlodoev

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Who is this guy you speak of? Is he available, and for the vet minimum?
I am tired of people who never bothered to even check who is available, yet feel compelled to try to convince me that Shaq some sort of alternativeless signing.

Brown, Oberto, Barron, Nesterovic, and even Thomas and Skinner are available at this point and will likely end up signing veteran minimum deals. They can give you solid 15 minutes. Probably can't give you anything more, but any attempt to get anything more than 15 minutes from Shaq will probably be a bad idea.

In short, anyone who thinks Shaq is some sort of exponential improvement in overall contribution to those guys just because he will score a handful of buckets is delirious, or hasn't watched him in the last 3 years.

"I don't know half of you half as well as I should like; and I like less than half of you half as well as you deserve."

Re: Shaq takes Minimum to sign with the C's
« Reply #34 on: August 04, 2010, 11:34:07 AM »

Offline Fafnir

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anyone who is against this signing has to be ignorant to the team's needs
Anyone who is FOR that signing is ignorant to the team's needs.

how? A veterean rebounding big man who can score in the paint for the vet min, how can you go wrong with that? Especially when alternatives where Kwame Brown or Semih Erden.
Calling Shaq a "rebounding" big man is extremely charitable, given that he averaged 5 rebounds in 23 minutes per game in the playoffs last season. We got roughly the same production from Leon Powe, who was 6'7 and playing on two bad knees.
Shaqs rebound rate last year was virtually the same as Kenrick Perkins at a respectable 17

Re: Shaq takes Minimum to sign with the C's
« Reply #35 on: August 04, 2010, 11:35:16 AM »

Offline MBunge

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The primary team need was a long, mobile defender, who can set solid picks keep the ball moving on offense, and give you solid 15 minutes per game. Pretty much everything Shaq is not at this stage of his career.


Did you even WATCH the team play last season?  If Perk had not blown out his knee and Sheed had not, this teams' primary need would have been for a scoring wing to take the pressure off Ray and Paul.  With Sheed gone and Perk out most of the year, the team's primary needs were a starting and back-up center.  And given that Boston played the best defense you could possibly expect them to play in the Finals AND STILL LOST, they needed bigs that could provide them with some consistent offense.

And frankly, the single greatest need Boston has had the last 3 years has been low-post scoring.

Mike

Re: Shaq takes Minimum to sign with the C's
« Reply #36 on: August 04, 2010, 11:35:43 AM »

Offline Chris

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anyone who is against this signing has to be ignorant to the team's needs
Anyone who is FOR that signing is ignorant to the team's needs.

how? A veterean rebounding big man who can score in the paint for the vet min, how can you go wrong with that? Especially when alternatives where Kwame Brown or Semih Erden.
Calling Shaq a "rebounding" big man is extremely charitable, given that he averaged 5 rebounds in 23 minutes per game in the playoffs last season. We got roughly the same production from Leon Powe, who was 6'7 and playing on two bad knees.

Well, Powe's knees were fine when he was playing for the C's.  But your point is taken.  Shaq has been a mediocre rebounder for a guy of his size and skillset his whole career.  He is very similar to Perkins.  He knows how to use his body to control a side of the backboard, but he just does not go and get the ball like elite rebounders do.

But still, he is a better rebounder than Sheed, and will fit in well in the C's system, which relies a lot more on their big men boxing out and taking up space (a Shaq specialty), so the perimeter players can come in to grab the loose balls.


The primary team need was a long, mobile defender, who can set solid picks keep the ball moving on offense, and give you solid 15 minutes per game. Pretty much everything Shaq is not at this stage of his career.

As a 1-year, vet min deal, Shaq's signing is tolerable because it doesn't set us back. But I suspect a lot of people will be underwhelmed with the outcome, based on their current reaction.

Well, you just described (a healthy) Marquis Daniels), but I agree that they still need another quality 3/4, preferably good enough to be a legit 6th man.  Someone like Battier, Tayshawn Prince, Boris Diaw, or Andres Nocioni.  But this deal gives them more freedom to go after guys like that using Sheed's contract, and potentially even Davis if they need to.

And if you were talking about a big man, then look no further than JO.  Like it or not, he was the best long, athletic defender on the market.  Those guys don't grow on trees. 

I do agree that if anyone is expecting too much out of Shaq, they are going to be disappointed, but as added depth (and 6 fouls) against teams with strong front courts (Orlando, LA), and another dimension off the bench to punish teams (like say, the Heat), who don't have stout interior defenders, you cannot do any better with what the C's had to deal.

I think the C's are still one deal away from being complete (and that deal may not come until midseason), but given what they had to work with, this is an incredibly intriguing team, even if it will be hit or miss.

Re: Shaq takes Minimum to sign with the C's
« Reply #37 on: August 04, 2010, 11:37:37 AM »

Offline OmarSekou

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I am tired of people who never bothered to even check who is available, yet feel compelled to try to convince me that Shaq some sort of alternativeless signing.

Brown, Oberto, Barron, Nesterovic, and even Thomas and Skinner are available at this point and will likely end up signing veteran minimum deals. They can give you solid 15 minutes. Probably can't give you anything more, but any attempt to get anything more than 15 minutes from Shaq will probably be a bad idea.

In short, anyone who thinks Shaq is some sort of exponential improvement in overall contribution to those guys just because he will score a handful of buckets is delirious, or hasn't watched him in the last 3 years.

Shaq has the potential to do more. He can still score at will in spurts. Great passer. And he takes up space (can be a good and bad thing). I think the biggest concern is conditioning and chemistry. Shaq still has the skills to contribute in a positive way.
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Re: Shaq takes Minimum to sign with the C's
« Reply #38 on: August 04, 2010, 11:42:46 AM »

Offline MBunge

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Who is this guy you speak of? Is he available, and for the vet minimum?
I am tired of people who never bothered to even check who is available, yet feel compelled to try to convince me that Shaq some sort of alternativeless signing.

Brown, Oberto, Barron, Nesterovic, and even Thomas and Skinner are available at this point and will likely end up signing veteran minimum deals. They can give you solid 15 minutes. Probably can't give you anything more, but any attempt to get anything more than 15 minutes from Shaq will probably be a bad idea.

In short, anyone who thinks Shaq is some sort of exponential improvement in overall contribution to those guys just because he will score a handful of buckets is delirious, or hasn't watched him in the last 3 years.



Thomas is not bad and Barron had an incredible 7 game run with New York, but he's 29 years old and has played a grand total of 89 games in the NBA.  The others...?

Last Season Stats

Oberto - 1.5 pts, 1.8 boards
Nesterovic - 3.9 pts, 2.1 boards
Skinner - 1.6, pts, 1.7 boards
Brown - 3.3 pts, 3.7 boards

When you start talking up crappy players who could barely get off the bench for crappy teams, it's time to rethink your anti-Shaq jihad.

Mike

Re: Shaq takes Minimum to sign with the C's
« Reply #39 on: August 04, 2010, 11:47:58 AM »

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Who is this guy you speak of? Is he available, and for the vet minimum?
I am tired of people who never bothered to even check who is available, yet feel compelled to try to convince me that Shaq some sort of alternativeless signing.

Brown, Oberto, Barron, Nesterovic, and even Thomas and Skinner are available at this point and will likely end up signing veteran minimum deals. They can give you solid 15 minutes. Probably can't give you anything more, but any attempt to get anything more than 15 minutes from Shaq will probably be a bad idea.

In short, anyone who thinks Shaq is some sort of exponential improvement in overall contribution to those guys just because he will score a handful of buckets is delirious, or hasn't watched him in the last 3 years.
Shaq is a major upgrade over those players so long as Doc keeps his role in check.

Re: Shaq takes Minimum to sign with the C's
« Reply #40 on: August 04, 2010, 11:51:33 AM »

Offline kozlodoev

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Who is this guy you speak of? Is he available, and for the vet minimum?
I am tired of people who never bothered to even check who is available, yet feel compelled to try to convince me that Shaq some sort of alternativeless signing.

Brown, Oberto, Barron, Nesterovic, and even Thomas and Skinner are available at this point and will likely end up signing veteran minimum deals. They can give you solid 15 minutes. Probably can't give you anything more, but any attempt to get anything more than 15 minutes from Shaq will probably be a bad idea.

In short, anyone who thinks Shaq is some sort of exponential improvement in overall contribution to those guys just because he will score a handful of buckets is delirious, or hasn't watched him in the last 3 years.



Thomas is not bad and Barron had an incredible 7 game run with New York, but he's 29 years old and has played a grand total of 89 games in the NBA.  The others...?

Last Season Stats

Oberto - 1.5 pts, 1.8 boards
Nesterovic - 3.9 pts, 2.1 boards
Skinner - 1.6, pts, 1.7 boards
Brown - 3.3 pts, 3.7 boards

When you start talking up crappy players who could barely get off the bench for crappy teams, it's time to rethink your anti-Shaq jihad.
You must be a prominent fantasy basketball player. All I see from you is stats, stats, stats, and then some more stats. In case you failed to notice, I don't think the Celtics' primary need is someone who can put together a given stat line. It is someone who can play a role.

The reason why the Celtics are a great team rather than a bunch of stars is because the management did an excellent job in finding players that address specific needs.
"I don't know half of you half as well as I should like; and I like less than half of you half as well as you deserve."

Re: Shaq takes Minimum to sign with the C's
« Reply #41 on: August 04, 2010, 11:55:23 AM »

Offline Fafnir

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Who is this guy you speak of? Is he available, and for the vet minimum?
I am tired of people who never bothered to even check who is available, yet feel compelled to try to convince me that Shaq some sort of alternativeless signing.

Brown, Oberto, Barron, Nesterovic, and even Thomas and Skinner are available at this point and will likely end up signing veteran minimum deals. They can give you solid 15 minutes. Probably can't give you anything more, but any attempt to get anything more than 15 minutes from Shaq will probably be a bad idea.

In short, anyone who thinks Shaq is some sort of exponential improvement in overall contribution to those guys just because he will score a handful of buckets is delirious, or hasn't watched him in the last 3 years.
Shaq is a major upgrade over those players so long as Doc keeps his role in check.
So you're saying he should basically replace Sheed? (obviously we won't be playing Shaq at the 4 at all though Rasheed was primarily a backup C for us anyways)

Re: Shaq takes Minimum to sign with the C's
« Reply #42 on: August 04, 2010, 11:57:32 AM »

Offline celticinorlando

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time to move sheed for RUDY

Re: Shaq takes Minimum to sign with the C's
« Reply #43 on: August 04, 2010, 11:57:59 AM »

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If Perk is back to form by playoffs, the C's would have a slew of bench players who can influence games.  Like Doc said last year: "Nate will win us a playoff game" -- that applies potentially to Wafer, Nate, Baby, Shaq and Jermaine.  Even Marquis has the tools to influence a game.  Given that we already have one of the best (top 3) starting 5 in the league -- this team, if healthy, could be terrific.

Re: Shaq takes Minimum to sign with the C's
« Reply #44 on: August 04, 2010, 12:08:46 PM »

Offline Evantime34

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Who is this guy you speak of? Is he available, and for the vet minimum?
I am tired of people who never bothered to even check who is available, yet feel compelled to try to convince me that Shaq some sort of alternativeless signing.

Brown, Oberto, Barron, Nesterovic, and even Thomas and Skinner are available at this point and will likely end up signing veteran minimum deals. They can give you solid 15 minutes. Probably can't give you anything more, but any attempt to get anything more than 15 minutes from Shaq will probably be a bad idea.

In short, anyone who thinks Shaq is some sort of exponential improvement in overall contribution to those guys just because he will score a handful of buckets is delirious, or hasn't watched him in the last 3 years.



Thomas is not bad and Barron had an incredible 7 game run with New York, but he's 29 years old and has played a grand total of 89 games in the NBA.  The others...?

Last Season Stats

Oberto - 1.5 pts, 1.8 boards
Nesterovic - 3.9 pts, 2.1 boards
Skinner - 1.6, pts, 1.7 boards
Brown - 3.3 pts, 3.7 boards

When you start talking up crappy players who could barely get off the bench for crappy teams, it's time to rethink your anti-Shaq jihad.
You must be a prominent fantasy basketball player. All I see from you is stats, stats, stats, and then some more stats. In case you failed to notice, I don't think the Celtics' primary need is someone who can put together a given stat line. It is someone who can play a role.

The reason why the Celtics are a great team rather than a bunch of stars is because the management did an excellent job in finding players that address specific needs.
Shaq even if his rebounding rate isn't high helps the rebounding game. He boxes out and allows the wings to grab boards.
He can finish well inside.

There is a reason those guys all have low numbers. It's because they aren't good enough to get on the court.

I agree that numbers aren't everything but when the disparity between points and rebounds is that great that really makes things clear.
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