Author Topic: Celtics to sign Shaq  (Read 48131 times)

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Re: Celtics to sign Shaq
« Reply #195 on: August 04, 2010, 09:33:53 AM »

Offline greg_kite

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No, we have to judge him with respect to other available vet minimum signings. And the bottom line is that just about anyone out there will be a defensive upgrade over Shaq, which is supposedly offset by a moderately efficient offensive game we may or may not need.
Shaq is the only guy available that anyone could say is a good matchup against the best centers in the league.  Shaq can still provide single coverage against Yao, Duncan, Bynum and Howard.  And still commands a double team in the post against most teams.  Is there any other center out there that you can say that about?  Defensively the only guy would maybe be Dampier, but I don't see him going to Boston for the minimum.

Re: Celtics to sign Shaq
« Reply #196 on: August 04, 2010, 09:35:14 AM »

Offline nyceltsfan

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Which O'Neal starts opening night?  Ultimately, I think Shaq should be in the starting lineup because his defensive liabilities can be offset by the other guys on the floor.

Re: Celtics to sign Shaq
« Reply #197 on: August 04, 2010, 09:37:55 AM »

Offline Brendan

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We are one time machine away from building the greatest dynasty ever.
No - we are one fountain of youth away from building the greatest dynasty ever.

All a time machine would do is make our old team play against young teams in the past (or future) instead of the present...

Re: Celtics to sign Shaq
« Reply #198 on: August 04, 2010, 09:38:11 AM »

Offline celticpride07

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Celtics now have 6 members of the 2006 all star-game

Shaq, JO, PP KG Ray and Sheed..wow if only we had a time machine!
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Sg: Wade/R. Allen/Rivers
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PF: Bosh/Humphries
C: B. Lopez/Dalembert/Anthony

Re: Celtics to sign Shaq
« Reply #199 on: August 04, 2010, 09:41:27 AM »

Offline kozlodoev

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No, we have to judge him with respect to other available vet minimum signings. And the bottom line is that just about anyone out there will be a defensive upgrade over Shaq, which is supposedly offset by a moderately efficient offensive game we may or may not need.
Shaq is the only guy available that anyone could say is a good matchup against the best centers in the league.  Shaq can still provide single coverage against Yao, Duncan, Bynum and Howard.  And still commands a double team in the post against most teams.  Is there any other center out there that you can say that about?  Defensively the only guy would maybe be Dampier, but I don't see him going to Boston for the minimum.
Maybe you're talking about Shaq 3 years ago. Shaq of today will barely demand double teams, and may struggle to cover the best young centers in the game.

However, the biggest problem is that our defense was championship-caliber because it was a team effort, and Shaq is simply not in the physical shape to participate in said effort.
"I don't know half of you half as well as I should like; and I like less than half of you half as well as you deserve."

Re: Celtics to sign Shaq
« Reply #200 on: August 04, 2010, 09:45:52 AM »

Offline greg_kite

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No, we have to judge him with respect to other available vet minimum signings. And the bottom line is that just about anyone out there will be a defensive upgrade over Shaq, which is supposedly offset by a moderately efficient offensive game we may or may not need.
Shaq is the only guy available that anyone could say is a good matchup against the best centers in the league.  Shaq can still provide single coverage against Yao, Duncan, Bynum and Howard.  And still commands a double team in the post against most teams.  Is there any other center out there that you can say that about?  Defensively the only guy would maybe be Dampier, but I don't see him going to Boston for the minimum.
Maybe you're talking about Shaq 3 years ago. Shaq of today will barely demand double teams, and may struggle to cover the best young centers in the game.

However, the biggest problem is that our defense was championship-caliber because it was a team effort, and Shaq is simply not in the physical shape to participate in said effort.
He averaged 13 ppg on 57% shooting in 25 minutes per game.  At 40mpg his averages would be 21 and 11.  He puts up very good numbers, not moderately efficient numbers. This was not three years ago.
Which vet minimum center is better and why?

Re: Celtics to sign Shaq
« Reply #201 on: August 04, 2010, 09:49:40 AM »

Offline moiso

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Awesome signing.  We finally have an abundance of big guys.  Now lets unload Sheed for nice wing and we ready for a championship.

Re: Celtics to sign Shaq
« Reply #202 on: August 04, 2010, 09:52:33 AM »

Offline FallGuy

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Awesome signing.  We finally have an abundance of big guys.  Now lets unload Sheed for nice wing and we ready for a championship.

One of the nice things about Shaq is he can provide some scoring, something we're desperate for...

So, if Sheed's contract fetches a defense-only wing, I think we're still okay.

Interesting nothing has happened on Rudy Fernandez yet... from any angle.

Re: Celtics to sign Shaq
« Reply #203 on: August 04, 2010, 09:57:35 AM »

Offline moiso

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Awesome signing.  We finally have an abundance of big guys.  Now lets unload Sheed for nice wing and we ready for a championship.

One of the nice things about Shaq is he can provide some scoring, something we're desperate for...

So, if Sheed's contract fetches a defense-only wing, I think we're still okay.

Interesting nothing has happened on Rudy Fernandez yet... from any angle.
That is the guy I want.

Re: Celtics to sign Shaq
« Reply #204 on: August 04, 2010, 10:00:57 AM »

Offline moiso

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No, we have to judge him with respect to other available vet minimum signings. And the bottom line is that just about anyone out there will be a defensive upgrade over Shaq, which is supposedly offset by a moderately efficient offensive game we may or may not need.
Shaq is the only guy available that anyone could say is a good matchup against the best centers in the league.  Shaq can still provide single coverage against Yao, Duncan, Bynum and Howard.  And still commands a double team in the post against most teams.  Is there any other center out there that you can say that about?  Defensively the only guy would maybe be Dampier, but I don't see him going to Boston for the minimum.
I rate Perkins as a much better defender than Shaq.  One of the best in the league.

Re: Celtics to sign Shaq
« Reply #205 on: August 04, 2010, 10:04:14 AM »

Offline manl_lui

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Dumbest move celtics have made since they signed Vin Baker another lazy, whiny fat player that doesn't play defense. Will totally ruin the Celtic chemistry, can't play pick and roll or perimeter defense. Clogs up the lane for great driving players that can't shoot, like Rondo and Lebron. Stupid move by the Celtics.
Offensively, I don't see how he hurts more than Perk apart from potentially demanding the ball more than he should. Any complaint you can make for Shaq on offense you can make double for Perk.

On defense, I expect his pick and roll defense to be below Perk's. Perk's perimeter D isn't particularly good either, so I don't see why that is worth mentioning.

My main point is you have to judge Shaq in comparison to Perk, not in comparison with some ideal that we didn't have in the first place.

If this is for a minimum contract, I like this move very much. I was against giving a lot of money, but his legitimate post game is something we lacked. Baby will get swatted less since he will take more midrange jumpers like in 2009 since he will often play with Shaq or JO, who play closer to the rim than Sheed did.

i agree we compare Shaq to Perkins,

offensively, Shaq is an upgrade
defensively, maybe below Perkins, but not that much behind
overall, he might be an beneficial to us, because he can also score in the paint whereas Perkins have a hard time doing against bigs like Howard

now depending on what contract we give Shaq, if its not Sheed's contract, then if Sheed comes back, we can shift either Sheed or JO to PF

if we can get someone valuable for trading BBD i say do it, if not, with Shaq signing, we definitely need another wing player

Re: Celtics to sign Shaq
« Reply #206 on: August 04, 2010, 10:04:24 AM »

Offline greg_kite

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No, we have to judge him with respect to other available vet minimum signings. And the bottom line is that just about anyone out there will be a defensive upgrade over Shaq, which is supposedly offset by a moderately efficient offensive game we may or may not need.
Shaq is the only guy available that anyone could say is a good matchup against the best centers in the league.  Shaq can still provide single coverage against Yao, Duncan, Bynum and Howard.  And still commands a double team in the post against most teams.  Is there any other center out there that you can say that about?  Defensively the only guy would maybe be Dampier, but I don't see him going to Boston for the minimum.
I rate Perkins as a much better defender than Shaq.  One of the best in the league.
I agree.  He's saying there was a better center out there available for the veteran minimum.

Re: Celtics to sign Shaq
« Reply #207 on: August 04, 2010, 10:12:28 AM »

Offline moiso

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No, we have to judge him with respect to other available vet minimum signings. And the bottom line is that just about anyone out there will be a defensive upgrade over Shaq, which is supposedly offset by a moderately efficient offensive game we may or may not need.
Shaq is the only guy available that anyone could say is a good matchup against the best centers in the league.  Shaq can still provide single coverage against Yao, Duncan, Bynum and Howard.  And still commands a double team in the post against most teams.  Is there any other center out there that you can say that about?  Defensively the only guy would maybe be Dampier, but I don't see him going to Boston for the minimum.
I rate Perkins as a much better defender than Shaq.  One of the best in the league.
I agree.  He's saying there was a better center out there available for the veteran minimum.
oops.

Re: Celtics to sign Shaq
« Reply #208 on: August 04, 2010, 10:12:49 AM »

Offline Evantime34

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I feel like a lot of people's opinions on Shaq are low because of how Perk and Sheed guarded him in the playoffs. The same can be said of Jermaine O'Neal.

People need to realize that not many teams have a player of Perk's caliber when it comes to defending strong players in the post. People realize that Dwight Howard is a lot better than he showed against Perk, I'm not sure why the O'Neal brothers don't get the same benefit of the doubt.
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Re: Celtics to sign Shaq
« Reply #209 on: August 04, 2010, 10:16:21 AM »

Offline moiso

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I feel like a lot of people's opinions on Shaq are low because of how Perk and Sheed guarded him in the playoffs. The same can be said of Jermaine O'Neal.

People need to realize that not many teams have a player of Perk's caliber when it comes to defending strong players in the post. People realize that Dwight Howard is a lot better than he showed against Perk, I'm not sure why the O'Neal brothers don't get the same benefit of the doubt.
I'm much more happy with the Shaq signing than the Jermaine signing.  And that's without even factoring in the salary difference.