Top teams have gone better, except us!

[EDWARDO]

You're both wrong. The "top" teams have remained the same or tweaked where they can - the Lakers, Celtics, Magic. The best addition to any of those teams is JO as it directly addresses our major need for length and depth. Actually, if you go back to the top 10 teams in the NBA by record last year, is there a better addition than JO. Of course Chicago and Miami got better but they weren't "top" teams last year (not in the top third). The teams at the top have limited capability to improve and the Celtics have done it about as well as anyone. Only one team can be pointed at a having improved to the degree that they are now a title contender - Miami. They had four guys under contract and they added Lebron and Bosh and resigned Wade so, yeah, they got better. The Cavs are way worse as are Phoenix and Utah. Orlando and LA are about the same. Dallas continues to move guys around, but they are hardly title contenders. We are better with JO and we didn't just trade him for Perk. Perk is still there. The roster is better, if only slightly, but their hands are tied and there's only so much they are able to do. You can't force guys to sign for the vets minimum if that's all there is to offer. Ridiculous.

[Celtics4ever]

Miami is a top ten team now Edwardo.  They will be on TV so much you will be sick of them.  Granted they were in the playoffs last year but certainly not in the conference finals.  The road through the Eastern Conference will go through them or us not Orlando.  Question is where do you define top team?  Is it conference finalists?  If that is the case, then CLE can't considered and your wrong as well.  Why two standards?  Playoff teams?  You could add the HEAT but its a little weak I concede.

I think Orlando is a tad worse without Barnes, BTW, they definitely match up against us worse than last year.  He was their toughest wing defender. Any team depending on Vince " Choke" Carter is in big trouble.

Portland is a team that is one healthy big away from having a decent team that could surprise peeps.

[Surferdad]

Sorry double-post, see my post below.

[EDWARDO]

Miami is a top ten team now Edwardo.  They will be on TV so much you will be sick of them.  Granted they were in the playoffs last year but certainly not in the conference finals.  The road through the Eastern Conference will go through them or us not Orlando.  Question is where do you define top team?  Is it conference finalists?  If that is the case, then CLE can't considered and your wrong as well.  Why two standards?  Playoff teams?  You could add the HEAT but its a little weak I concede.

I think Orlando is a tad worse without Barnes, BTW, they definitely match up against us worse than last year.  He was their toughest wing defender. Any team depending on Vince " Choke" Carter is in big trouble.

Portland is a team that is one healthy big away from having a decent team that could surprise peeps.

Read my post again, as you've totally misread is the first time.

Of course they are a top team now, but look back on the the top ten teams by record from last year and tell me which one improved by a substantial margin. More than half have gone backward, 3-4 are about the same, including us. There's simply limited scope for us to add a quality guys. Instead of whining about how the "top teams" have improved, why don't you include what you might have done differently? The top ten teams were good last year because they'd maximized their resources. A few intentionally did not and got the reap the rewards of free agency. We were lucky enough to be arguably the best team last year... an injury away from the title... But that also means we're restricted by the cap in what we can do. JO is a better addition than anything the Lakers and Magic have added.

Are you saying that the "top teams have gotten better" as if the existing top 10 or so have pulled off some great moves to propel them beyond the Celtics? If that's the argument than you are wrong.

Or are you saying that Miami spent a bunch of money and have gotten much, much, much better and now might be better than us? We ALL KNOW THAT!

Or is this just a whine-fest "woe is me, I want the Celtics to sign Bosh and Boozer, not someone else?" We can't under the rules. Sorry to disappoint.

We've addressed our most glaring need and gotten better in the process. We've locked in our existing players into very, very favorable contracts... all of them. Its been pretty masterful. The only real setback is losing TA and I don't think that's a huge issue. I like the two picks. Two years from now we will have Rondo, Perk, Pierce, Bradly, and a zillion dollars in cap space. We seem to have worked a way to contend for titles for the last few years and next year too, and yet then have massive cap flexibility and two young building blocks (also on incredibly reasonable deals) to build around.

And yet you whine and cry about how much better everyone is getting. One team has entered the upper echelon, maybe two. Both had an insane amount of cap room to maneuver with. Yes, they got better. A bunch of other teams have completely fallen apart and of the top 4 teams from last year, the Celtics have improved themselves the most.

[Surferdad]

You're both wrong. The "top" teams have remained the same or tweaked where they can - the Lakers, Celtics, Magic. The best addition to any of those teams is JO as it directly addresses our major need for length and depth. Actually, if you go back to the top 10 teams in the NBA by record last year, is there a better addition than JO. Of course Chicago and Miami got better but they weren't "top" teams last year (not in the top third). The teams at the top have limited capability to improve and the Celtics have done it about as well as anyone. Only one team can be pointed at a having improved to the degree that they are now a title contender - Miami. They had four guys under contract and they added Lebron and Bosh and resigned Wade so, yeah, they got better. The Cavs are way worse as are Phoenix and Utah. Orlando and LA are about the same. Dallas continues to move guys around, but they are hardly title contenders. We are better with JO and we didn't just trade him for Perk. Perk is still there. The roster is better, if only slightly, but their hands are tied and there's only so much they are able to do. You can't force guys to sign for the vets minimum if that's all there is to offer. Ridiculous.

Finally, a voice of reason.  You have to look at the top teams from last year to see where the C's stand.  LAL may be marginally better defensively at the wing (Barnes) but they lose a good backup guard in Farmar.  Orlando lost Barnes and so they are a little worse.  Cle is out of the picture.  Miami is obviously better but they have no center at this point.  Chicago is a lot better but need to gel.  Jury still out on that one.

Perk's injury and Sheed retiring are not DA's fault.  Quite the opposite, he did exactly what was necessary with the assets he had to address those issues.  Without the JO signing, you are looking at Glen Davis as your starting center and no frontcourt depth.  Let's just say he had instead acquired say Josh Howard or Matt Barnes as a backup wing, would that be a better roster?  I think not.

This off-season is coming together.  The only issue where I did not agree with Ainge is not resigning Tony Allen.  Our wing defense is worse now without him, and that will be critical to beat Miami.  Forget about TA's comments about not enough minutes, he won't get much more in Memphis behind Rudy Gay and OJ Mayo, he wanted to finally get his "NBA payday" and I can't blame him for that.  Since TA was our own player, Ainge had the ability to beat the Memphis offer.  This will come back to bite us unless DA addresses it, and he may well do so by the trade deadline, so we must be patient as others have pointed out.  Also keep in mind that we didn't see much of Marquis Daniels last year.  If he can manage to play 60-70 games and be 75% of the defender that TA is, then this will be a HUGE improvement since Quis clearly has far more offensive skills than TA.

[wdleehi]

So, what move did you expect them to make?


I hear complaints about this player or that player, but no explanation on how the Celtics would have been able to get those players.


You want Barnes.  Great.  Does that mean you wish they didn't sign O'Neal?  Because having some or all of the MLE is the only way they were going to get him.  And in that case, who do they get to start at C while waiting for Perk to return?  Shaq and his 8 million dollar demand?  



Oh, and the team with the best record the past two seasons took a major step back.  The other team in the Western Conference Final took a major step back. 


Boston filled it's biggest hole.  The C position with Perk out and Wallace retiring.

If you want to whine this loud, at least have a realistic alternative way you think the Celtics should have gone.  (like the poster who think the Celtics should have blown up the team and not resigned Ray and Pierce)

[OhioGreen]

Would definitely agree! Yes, we've resigned PP and Ray, but that's not getting better.  We really don't have JO AND Perk, cause Perk will most likely miss most of the season.  So no Perk, Sheed, or TA. Add JO. How is that getting better? Everyone else is resignings!  Plus, there was no major consensus on resigning Quis and Nate until it became obvious we were not gonna be able to sign any other FA.
Yes, there is still time for Danny to do something, but right now it doesn't look promising. So at this point, NO, we haven't gotten better!

[thebat]

Of course resigning Ray and Pierce are top priorties and thank God DA made it! And adding JO is a decent move to replace the injured Perk. Then what else? Will we able to size up against the Lakers?

And Quis, who? We could have gotten a better player for TA plus Quis!

Heven't you been hearing what Paul Pierce have been saying this summer?

I'm sorry guys. DA is not even thinking to deal with Shaq (to think that we are now contemplating on discussing Shaq are clear indication that there are no one out there for us anymore). Open your eyes now because there are no more good players left out there!

[wdleehi]

Of course resigning Ray and Pierce are top priorties and thank God DA made it! And adding JO is a decent move to replace the injured Perk. Then what else? Will we able to size up against the Lakers?

And Quis, who? We could have gotten a better player for TA plus Quis!

Heven't you been hearing what Paul Pierce have been saying this summer?

I'm sorry guys. DA is not even thinking to deal with Shaq (to think that we are now contemplating on discussing Shaq are clear indication that there are no one out there for us anymore). Open your eyes now because there are no more good players left out there!

Who wanted TA and Quis?  And they tried to work out a sign and trade for TA with the team that signed him, but it didn't work out.


Nobody is dealing with Shaq right now because he wants 8 million a season.


And of course there are more players out there.  Celtics need solid role players, not stars. 


And the Wallace trade will happen sometime this season.  It is a waiting game. 


So again, what realistic move could they have done differently. 

[Surferdad]

Would definitely agree! Yes, we've resigned PP and Ray, but that's not getting better.  We really don't have JO AND Perk, cause Perk will most likely miss most of the season.  So no Perk, Sheed, or TA. Add JO. How is that getting better? Everyone else is resignings!  Plus, there was no major consensus on resigning Quis and Nate until it became obvious we were not gonna be able to sign any other FA.
Yes, there is still time for Danny to do something, but right now it doesn't look promising. So at this point, NO, we haven't gotten better!

Sure we haven't gotten better, but that is not the point.  The key thing is that we haven't gotten appreciably worse, and that's an accomplishment considering that the team lost its starting center and backup center/6th man.

[cdif911]

Nope. I wanted a defensive player who can also shoot to defend Kobe, Lebron, Wade etc (like Posey, Barnes).

I also want a defensive rebounder (Josh Howard). And how about adding another defensive big man (Shaq, maybe)?

Another offensive player/shooter would also be of help!

Every other players have already gone to a team. We only added J.O. And all you have to say be patient? Why? Who else is out there to be of help to us? None anymore, just garbage players.

D.A. gotta act now. Not later because it is too late.

you know there are only 12 spots on a roster, and Doc plays 10 at best...we have a starting 5, plus 4 solid bench players (when Perk comes back) so you can add 1 guy maybe to that.  Bradley is an unknown at this point

and you want to add solid defensive guys like James Posey and Matt Barnes?  Posey is way past his prime and Barnes is ok, but not a guy who I'd want to guard a shooting guard or Lebron...

[housecall]

Until the season plays itself out theres no real way to say other teams got better than us.Take a look at the cavs,magic last off season.They added supposedly better players than we had.How did that work out for them?When its all said and done,the last team standing usually is the team who made the better moves. 

[Celticsfan336]

I dont understand the logic of you guys. We resigned Ray, Paul under team friendly contracts, resigned Nate and Marquis under the Bird's Rights. We signed JO with the MLE. Now we have the Veteran minimum and Sheed's contract to use. By the deadline we will still have 2 more solid addiditons. We drafted Avery Bradley and Haragody.

All of those moves (Plus what is still to come) = WAY better than losing Farmar, and signing Barnes, and getting no draft picks.

Plus, Nate, Marquis, and BBD didnt play a full regular season with training camp last year. That is a boost in its own.

You guys are acting DUMB. And we have rondo locked up for 5 years. Unless your expectations were that you wanted Bosh, Wade, and Lebron for the MLE.....we have had an EXCELLANT offseason.

/thread

[guava_wrench]

I dont understand the logic of you guys. We resigned Ray, Paul under team friendly contracts, resigned Nate and Marquis under the Bird's Rights. We signed JO with the MLE. Now we have the Veteran minimum and Sheed's contract to use. By the deadline we will still have 2 more solid addiditons. We drafted Avery Bradley and Haragody.

All of those moves (Plus what is still to come) = WAY better than losing Farmar, and signing Barnes, and getting no draft picks.

Plus, Nate, Marquis, and BBD didnt play a full regular season with training camp last year. That is a boost in its own.

You guys are acting DUMB. And we have rondo locked up for 5 years. Unless your expectations were that you wanted Bosh, Wade, and Lebron for the MLE.....we have had an EXCELLANT offseason.

/thread

Please don't use injury as excuse for players not playing the whole season, like with BBD and Marquis, because people will also get injured this year and other teams also have injury problems.

Our offseason was losing TA and Sheed but gaining JO. That is it. That is not excellent, nor is it a disaster.

Ultimately, we need Perk to recover fully and we need another wing to contribute to not be in trouble. We also need another big to eat minutes until Perk returns.

I am not onboard with counting on unproven rookies when evaluating the offseason. That's a crap shoot.

[vinnie]

I just love these threads. I have never been the biggest Danny fan, but what else do people expect him to do? He put the team way over the cap to bring us a championship in 2008 and to put the C's within 4 points of another cahmpionship in 2010. He brought Doc back, he brought the two key starters back and great salaries and he brought in the best center available. The only thing I regrest is that Tony is leaving, because the C's really do need a defensive stopper. I give Danny a B+ so far for the offseason. He has not overpaid anyone and he has filled the need at Center with the Perk injury. Now he still needs to find a wing.

Just curious, who was Danny supposed to get if he traded Daniels and TA? I will also point out that the OP writes that the Celtics may have trouble making the playoffs with its current roster. Sorry, but that is just a ridiculous statement.