Why Is Glen Davis still on this team?

[ms.bball41]

Off-season is still very young.  We still may get Shaq and at the worst case, I imagine Danny picks up a Kwame Brown/Joe Smith type.   please no!! Kwame brown is a bust and would be a disgrace to the team!

[mgent]

I still go back to the same point...

Without Big Baby - 23 - 5

With Big Baby - 27 - 27

I've been talking for weeks about how Baby might be our only real trade chip.

That said, to suggest that we're better off without him is silly.  The Celtics won 62 games when KG missed 25 games and won 50 when he only missed 13.  If we were to apply the same logic as you used, we'd have to say that KG's additional 12 game presence cost us those 12 extra games.  And that's silly. 

I'm realistic about BBD.  He's a great role player and plays with a lot of heart.  I'm OK with saying that he's not ever going to start on a contender and that he's likely not going to be part of our post Big Three rebuilding plans.  But we don't need to say he sucks. 

That KG comparison isn't really the same at all.

[Jon]

I still go back to the same point...

Without Big Baby - 23 - 5

With Big Baby - 27 - 27

I've been talking for weeks about how Baby might be our only real trade chip.

That said, to suggest that we're better off without him is silly.  The Celtics won 62 games when KG missed 25 games and won 50 when he only missed 13.  If we were to apply the same logic as you used, we'd have to say that KG's additional 12 game presence cost us those 12 extra games.  And that's silly. 

I'm realistic about BBD.  He's a great role player and plays with a lot of heart.  I'm OK with saying that he's not ever going to start on a contender and that he's likely not going to be part of our post Big Three rebuilding plans.  But we don't need to say he sucks. 

That KG comparison isn't really the same at all.

Of course they're the same.  Both ignore reality.  The Baby stat ignores KG, Pierce, and others missing time.  The KG stat ignores similar external factors. 

[Jevi]

If Celts were smart, they'd trade Baby now, it's ridiculous he's even still here. They know they need size,rebounding and have Shaq available. I don't care how young he is, he doesn't win games. Do away with the overrated Shrek and Donkey show,that showed up once. I don't wanna see him back with the Celts falling on his stomach for another season. Wanna revamp the 2nd unit,fine,it's BBD's turn. Baby is the last bench player from championship team.

[nickagneta]

If Celts were smart, they'd trade Baby now, it's ridiculous he's even still here. They know they need size,rebounding and have Shaq available. I don't care how young he is, he doesn't win games. Do away with the overrated Shrek and Donkey show,that showed up once. I don't wanna see him back with the Celts falling on his stomach for another season. Wanna revamp the 2nd unit,fine,it's BBD's turn. Baby is the last bench player from championship team.

So we have to have Shaq and have to get rid of Baby because Shaq is so much better than Baby. Let's look at some stats during last year's playoffs:

TS%:  Shaq 55.9%  Baby 55.1%
Rebounding%:  Shaq 11.7%  Baby 13.8%
Rebounds/game:  Shaq 5.5  Baby 4.5
Points/FGA:  Shaq 1.36  Baby 1.41
FTA/game  Shaq 4.3  Baby 3.3

So given Shaq's horrid FT% when all shooting is taken into consideration, Shaq and Baby shot about the same in last year's playoffs.

So given the fact that Shaq played more minutes per game than Baby, Baby still got to more rebounds per available rebound than Shaq and was only 1 rebound less per game.

So given Shaq was his team's starting center and number 2 or 2A scoring option when he was on the floor so he took a lot more shots per game than Baby, and given that Baby was his team's 6th or 7th man, Davis was still able to score more points per FG taken than Shaq. He may have had more of his shots blocked than Shaq did but he ended up being just as effective offensively if not more so when he did attempt to shoot.

So given that Shaq was purposely fouled very often because teams would rather have him go to the line than shoot and that he played more minutes per game, Baby still only averaged shooting one FT less per game than Shaq.

Do I even have to state who is a better outside shooter?

And do I even have to go into who is a better defensive player overall or who is a better pick and role defender or who creates more offensive fouls or who is faster at blitzing an outside shooter and still able to get back to stop the pass into the paint.

For all your complaints about Baby, some of them warranted, to wish that he go so that Shaq could come here makes no sense given the performances in last year's playoffs by the two men for their specific teams.

Shaq, right now, is a lesser overall player than Glen Davis is.

[dpaps]

If Celts were smart, they'd trade Baby now, it's ridiculous he's even still here. They know they need size,rebounding and have Shaq available. I don't care how young he is, he doesn't win games. Do away with the overrated Shrek and Donkey show,that showed up once. I don't wanna see him back with the Celts falling on his stomach for another season. Wanna revamp the 2nd unit,fine,it's BBD's turn. Baby is the last bench player from championship team.

So we have to have Shaq and have to get rid of Baby because Shaq is so much better than Baby. Let's look at some stats during last year's playoffs:

TS%:  Shaq 55.9%  Baby 55.1%
Rebounding%:  Shaq 11.7%  Baby 13.8%
Rebounds/game:  Shaq 5.5  Baby 4.5
Points/FGA:  Shaq 1.36  Baby 1.41
FTA/game  Shaq 4.3  Baby 3.3

So given Shaq's horrid FT% when all shooting is taken into consideration, Shaq and Baby shot about the same in last year's playoffs.

So given the fact that Shaq played more minutes per game than Baby, Baby still got to more rebounds per available rebound than Shaq and was only 1 rebound less per game.

So given Shaq was his team's starting center and number 2 or 2A scoring option when he was on the floor so he took a lot more shots per game than Baby, and given that Baby was his team's 6th or 7th man, Davis was still able to score more points per FG taken than Shaq. He may have had more of his shots blocked than Shaq did but he ended up being just as effective offensively if not more so when he did attempt to shoot.

So given that Shaq was purposely fouled very often because teams would rather have him go to the line than shoot and that he played more minutes per game, Baby still only averaged shooting one FT less per game than Shaq.

Do I even have to state who is a better outside shooter?

And do I even have to go into who is a better defensive player overall or who is a better pick and role defender or who creates more offensive fouls or who is faster at blitzing an outside shooter and still able to get back to stop the pass into the paint.

For all your complaints about Baby, some of them warranted, to wish that he go so that Shaq could come here makes no sense given the performances in last year's playoffs by the two men for their specific teams.

Shaq, right now, is a lesser overall player than Glen Davis is.

I think the argument he was making was not that Shaq is better than Baby, it's that (assuming having Shaq AND baby wouldn't work because of when Perk comes back) we can either have just baby or Shaq and whatever we can get in a trade for baby (Rudy Fernandez or another wing maybe).

[nickagneta]

If Celts were smart, they'd trade Baby now, it's ridiculous he's even still here. They know they need size,rebounding and have Shaq available. I don't care how young he is, he doesn't win games. Do away with the overrated Shrek and Donkey show,that showed up once. I don't wanna see him back with the Celts falling on his stomach for another season. Wanna revamp the 2nd unit,fine,it's BBD's turn. Baby is the last bench player from championship team.

So we have to have Shaq and have to get rid of Baby because Shaq is so much better than Baby. Let's look at some stats during last year's playoffs:

TS%:  Shaq 55.9%  Baby 55.1%
Rebounding%:  Shaq 11.7%  Baby 13.8%
Rebounds/game:  Shaq 5.5  Baby 4.5
Points/FGA:  Shaq 1.36  Baby 1.41
FTA/game  Shaq 4.3  Baby 3.3

So given Shaq's horrid FT% when all shooting is taken into consideration, Shaq and Baby shot about the same in last year's playoffs.

So given the fact that Shaq played more minutes per game than Baby, Baby still got to more rebounds per available rebound than Shaq and was only 1 rebound less per game.

So given Shaq was his team's starting center and number 2 or 2A scoring option when he was on the floor so he took a lot more shots per game than Baby, and given that Baby was his team's 6th or 7th man, Davis was still able to score more points per FG taken than Shaq. He may have had more of his shots blocked than Shaq did but he ended up being just as effective offensively if not more so when he did attempt to shoot.

So given that Shaq was purposely fouled very often because teams would rather have him go to the line than shoot and that he played more minutes per game, Baby still only averaged shooting one FT less per game than Shaq.

Do I even have to state who is a better outside shooter?

And do I even have to go into who is a better defensive player overall or who is a better pick and role defender or who creates more offensive fouls or who is faster at blitzing an outside shooter and still able to get back to stop the pass into the paint.

For all your complaints about Baby, some of them warranted, to wish that he go so that Shaq could come here makes no sense given the performances in last year's playoffs by the two men for their specific teams.

Shaq, right now, is a lesser overall player than Glen Davis is.

I think the argument he was making was not that Shaq is better than Baby, it's that (assuming having Shaq AND baby wouldn't work because of when Perk comes back) we can either have just baby or Shaq and whatever we can get in a trade for baby (Rudy Fernandez or another wing maybe).

Read the thread and what he has said in it. Believe me he was saying that he would rather have Shaq here.

[Jon]

I don't agree with Jevi's analysis of BBD's game; however, I am beginning to wonder if there is a bigger market for BBD than Sheed.  

BBD can help a team this year, doesn't cost much, and gives the team the option of re-signing him with Bird rights or letting him go next summer.  

If we can get more for BBD than Sheed, I wouldn't be opposed to using Sheed to get Shaq, signing another big (say Joe Smith), and then using BBD to get that elusive third wing.  

But I'd only do that if the third wing we were getting is quite good.  I'm not sure if there's anyone who is available who quite fits the profile and makes comparable money to Baby.  

[Who]

I don't agree with Jevi's analysis of BBD's game; however, I am beginning to wonder if there is a bigger market for BBD than Sheed.  

BBD can help a team this year, doesn't cost much, and gives the team the option of re-signing him with Bird rights or letting him go next summer.  

If we can get more for BBD than Sheed, I wouldn't be opposed to using Sheed to get Shaq, signing another big (say Joe Smith), and then using BBD to get that elusive third wing.  

But I'd only do that if the third wing we were getting is quite good.  I'm not sure if there's anyone who is available who quite fits the profile and makes comparable money to Baby.  

Glen Davis for Rudy Fernandez?

Edit: Trying to think of a few more ideas ... here is what I came up with

(1) Glen Davis for Rudy Fernandez
(2) Glen Davis + Rasheed Wallace for Boris Diaw + Derrick Brown
(3) Glen Davis + Rasheed Wallace for Mike Dunleavy
(4) Glen Davis for Courtney Lee
(5) Glen Davis for Quincy Pondexter
(6) Glen Davis + a first round pick for Nick Collison
(7) Glen Davis for Jared Dudley

Anything possible with Detroit? For Tayshaun Prince or a smaller deal of a big + Jerebko?

[ben]

If Celts were smart, they'd trade Baby now, it's ridiculous he's even still here. They know they need size,rebounding and have Shaq available. I don't care how young he is, he doesn't win games. Do away with the overrated Shrek and Donkey show,that showed up once. I don't wanna see him back with the Celts falling on his stomach for another season. Wanna revamp the 2nd unit,fine,it's BBD's turn. Baby is the last bench player from championship team.

not to mention baby hardly had any playing time from that championship year.  We have won zero championships during the years Big Baby has been recieving significant playing time.

SHAQ, Powe, PJ Brown are all > than BBD

Not to mention the terrific basketball the celtics played while BBD nursed his injury.  Sheed and Williams were actually fantastic off the bench for about 25 games while BBD rested.

[Jevi]

Edit: Trying to think of a few more ideas ... here is what I came up with

(1) Glen Davis for Rudy Fernandez
(2) Glen Davis + Rasheed Wallace for Boris Diaw + Derrick Brown
(3) Glen Davis + Rasheed Wallace for Mike Dunleavy
(4) Glen Davis for Courtney Lee
(5) Glen Davis for Quincy Poindexter
(6) Glen Davis + a first round pick for Nick Collison
(7) Glen Davis for Jared Dudley
[/quote]

(1) Glen Davis + Rasheed Wallace for Shane Battier + Jordan Hill
(2) Agree
(3) Agree
(4) Glen Davis + Rasheed Wallace for Jordan Hill + Jared Jeffries(if Hou demands to dump his salary)
(5) OK,I guess
(6) Glen Davis + Rasheed Wallace for Tayshaun Prince
(7) Ok

Jordan Hill is 6'10" & mobile enough like Jared Jeffries to play Bosh,Lewis,Blatche. Baby ain't staying with 'em.

[Bankshot]

Baby is not going anywhere. All our other bigs are old or hurt.  It would be stupid to trade Baby when all our bigs will be gone in 1-2 years.

[Bahku]

Baby is not going anywhere. All our other bigs are old or hurt.  It would be stupid to trade Baby when all our bigs will be gone in 1-2 years.

I hope not ... I love the guy, and Shaq is going to be a great influence on him, I think.

[GreenFaith1819]

Baby is not going anywhere. All our other bigs are old or hurt.  It would be stupid to trade Baby when all our bigs will be gone in 1-2 years.

I hope not ... I love the guy, and Shaq is going to be a great influence on him, I think.

Agreed.

[Bankshot]

Baby is not going anywhere. All our other bigs are old or hurt.  It would be stupid to trade Baby when all our bigs will be gone in 1-2 years.

I hope not ... I love the guy, and Shaq is going to be a great influence on him, I think.

Agreed.

And what knucklehead would trade their only young healthy big? Makes little sense.