The Rondo vs Paul Poll on the front page

[BballTim]

-Paul can spread the floor with his shooting , while still having the ability to get to the rim about as good as Rondo

  Rondo takes about twice as many shots from the inside as Paul even though Rondo takes fewer shots overall. He also makes a higher percentage of his inside shots than Paul does. How does that translate to Paul "having the ability to get to the rim about as good as Rondo"?

Because he goes to the ft line and misses about half of his free throws, he may finish better shooting% wise, but you have to also cout ft shooting. Paul shoots in the 80-85%.

  Ah. That's the first time I've ever seen "better free throw shooting" characterized as "gets to the rim better".

Ok I worded it wrong, he finishes almost as good as rondo when you count ft shooting (which is what happen when you go to the rim, you get fouled) rondo is the better finisher around the rim, but if you add in ft shooting and 3 pt plays Paul is right there with rondo.

  Right up there percentage-wise, but Paul still only takes 20% of his shots from the inside while Rondo takes over half of his from the inside. Which makes a difference when your team is comprised almost entirely of jump shooters.

[Spilling Green Dye]

I didn't take the poll on the front page and do not know how it's worded but let me say this if I could trade Rondo straight up without salary cap restrictions on the trade for Chris Paul, as much as I love Rondo, I would do it in a heartbeat. Paul is the best PG this league has seen since Stockton, you have to do the trade.

But here's the thing, you can't trade Rondo straight up for Paul. He has base year compensation attached to this year of his contract and both teams are over the cap. The only likely scenario that makes sense is Rondo, Perk, Rasheed, Baby, Gaffney, LaFayette and picks for Paul and Okafor and even that doesn't work out. An unlikely scenario is Rondo, Rasheed, Gaffney and Lafayette and 2 first rounders for Paul. And in this case, I don't do the trade because you are stripping the team of any chance at being able to get better for this year in trading the contract of Gaffney, LaFayette and Wallace and then trading the team's future by trading away picks.

So, if I'm trading talent for talent one up, no brainer, make the trade. But under the circumstances of the realities of the NBA, their CBA and what it would mean for this team, you don't do the trade because long term the increase in talent from Paul to Rondo isn't worth the loss of tradeable assets this year, future first round picks and the future financial flexibilty that Rondo's contract gives you versus that of Paul's.

So you wouldn't upgrade the starting roster from Rondo to Chris Paul mainly b/c you couldn't get as good of a bench player?  Those other guys mentioned aren't much of a trade asset, and I don't think the Celtics would have to include a top future draft pick (which would be in the #19 range anyway) to get the deal done.  Also, in the long run you'd have Chris Paul running your team and not Rondo, and I think that's a very big upside.

If this deal were done the Celtics could still get bench help at the wing spot.  Barnes is apparently signing for only $1.7mil to the Lakers, so there is hope for the Celtics.

To me this is a win-win from both the short and long term perspective.

[35Lewis]

I didn't take the poll on the front page and do not know how it's worded but let me say this if I could trade Rondo straight up without salary cap restrictions on the trade for Chris Paul, as much as I love Rondo, I would do it in a heartbeat. Paul is the best PG this league has seen since Stockton, you have to do the trade.

But here's the thing, you can't trade Rondo straight up for Paul. He has base year compensation attached to this year of his contract and both teams are over the cap. The only likely scenario that makes sense is Rondo, Perk, Rasheed, Baby, Gaffney, LaFayette and picks for Paul and Okafor and even that doesn't work out. An unlikely scenario is Rondo, Rasheed, Gaffney and Lafayette and 2 first rounders for Paul. And in this case, I don't do the trade because you are stripping the team of any chance at being able to get better for this year in trading the contract of Gaffney, LaFayette and Wallace and then trading the team's future by trading away picks.

So, if I'm trading talent for talent one up, no brainer, make the trade. But under the circumstances of the realities of the NBA, their CBA and what it would mean for this team, you don't do the trade because long term the increase in talent from Paul to Rondo isn't worth the loss of tradeable assets this year, future first round picks and the future financial flexibilty that Rondo's contract gives you versus that of Paul's.

So you wouldn't upgrade the starting roster from Rondo to Chris Paul mainly b/c you couldn't get as good of a bench player?  Those other guys mentioned aren't much of a trade asset, and I don't think the Celtics would have to include a top future draft pick (which would be in the #19 range anyway) to get the deal done.  Also, in the long run you'd have Chris Paul running your team and not Rondo, and I think that's a very big upside.

If this deal were done the Celtics could still get bench help at the wing spot.  Barnes is apparently signing for only $1.7mil to the Lakers, so there is hope for the Celtics.

To me this is a win-win from both the short and long term perspective.

I believe he is stating that the use of Rasheed's contract limits the available options to help stabilize the roster.  The bench on an older or even a young team can be just as important as the starters.  Especially come playoff time.

[More Banners]

Can someone please post a comparison of their advanced stats, particularly the ts%?  Their games are too different to compare their scoring abilities.  Rondo shoots from inside because he'll stand there, wide freakin' open, and refuse to shoot from 14' out, where many high schoolers would take (and make) the shot.  And CP3 shoots 3's and hits FTs, and I think TS% is alleged to factor all that crap in.

Is there such a think at assist percentage, too?  As in, % of passes that end in an assist?

[BballTim]

Can someone please post a comparison of their advanced stats, particularly the ts%?  Their games are too different to compare their scoring abilities.  Rondo shoots from inside because he'll stand there, wide freakin' open, and refuse to shoot from 14' out, where many high schoolers would take (and make) the shot.  And CP3 shoots 3's and hits FTs, and I think TS% is alleged to factor all that crap in.

Is there such a think at assist percentage, too?  As in, % of passes that end in an assist?

  I think assist% is the percentage of the team's assists that you get while you're on the court. Paul's might be higher than Rondo's because the big three are better passers (IMO) than Paul's teammates.

[Birdbrain]

Talent wins.

It really does! Just ask LeBron!

Yes, ask LeBron because he had a talentless team besides himself.

Yeah they won the most games the past 2 years.  Round and round we go.

[Evantime34]

I think Paul is unquestionably better now. I feel like Rondo has the chance to be better though. However that chance is a low enough percentage that you would have to take Paul for Rondo straight up without hesitation.

Here is my argument for Rondo having more upside. In speed, court vision, getting to the rim and potentially even finishing they are comparable. Paul can shoot much better than Rondo. Rondo is a much better rebounder than Paul.

Rondo is a better rebounder because of his freakish wingspan. This is an area that Paul will never be able to touch Rondo. Rondo could conceivably become a very good shooter (Jason Kidd shot 40% from 3 this year) and at least become comparable to Paul in that respect, however as previously stated that chance is small.

[Roy Hobbs]

I guess a lot of people become attached to a player.  It would be like if Red Sox fans balked at trading Youk for Pujols.

[More Banners]

Forgive my lack of etiquette by answering my own question (slow day at the office):

CP:  TS%=.584 ; eFG%=.534 ; TOV%=13.5 ; PER=23.7 (30.0 in 2009)
RR:  TS%=.540 ; eFG%=.517 ; TOV%=19.3 ; PER=19.1

Seems pretty clear that CP is a much more efficient PG than Rondo?

[Evantime34]

I guess a lot of people become attached to a player.  It would be like if Red Sox fans balked at trading Youk for Pujols.

I don't think the gap is that pronounced but I like the analogy.

[papa shuttlesworth]

I wouldn't complain if the Celtics traded Rondo for Paul, since he is a top 5 or 10 player in the league.  

But the reasons I voted "no" on the front page are:
1) Paul holds onto the ball a lot.  I think that would hurt the Celtics somewhat.  Of course, CP might hold on to it more because he has worse teammates in NO.
2) Paul is a great rebounder for his size, but Rondo is the best rebounder for his size.  We've seen how that can impact the game in a way that doesn't show up in TS% or other stats (except for rebounds)
3) Paul seems to be injured a lot more.  Would you rather have a guy with a PER of 25 for 60 games or a guy with a PER of 22 for 80 games?
4) I personally don't like CP's attitude in the few instances I've seen it come through in the media.

To repeat, I think Paul is awesome, I just think Rondo fits better.  Sure, Rondo would be world class if he shot better, but he still is pretty good as is.

[More Banners]

I guess a lot of people become attached to a player.

Perhaps that's why I almost cried today when, just as I was getting ready to start the "bring back" thread, I saw that Tony Battie signed in Philly...

[RAcker]

A lot of the arguments in this thread make me grateful that Danny is in charge and not us.

I voted Yes on the trade Paul for Rondo idea by the way.  I just think it's more obvious than a lot of people want to make it.

[BballTim]

I guess a lot of people become attached to a player.  It would be like if Red Sox fans balked at trading Youk for Pujols.

  By the same token, most of the people who don't become attached to a player would have driven Rondo to the airport if we could have been lucky enough to trade him straight up for Jose Calderon two years ago.

[More Banners]

Let me add that, per 36 minutes, Rondo had 4.4 rebounds and CP had 4.0 in the regular season this year.  Both were down from the year before, when CP had 5.2/36 to RR's 5.7/36.

I'd say that Rondo doesn't have a significant edge in rebounding, either.