Are Jordan, Magic comments actually also a diss to the Celtics top three?

[OmarSekou]

My point from the topic is that yes you need a good team to win. You can't be Jordan with rest duds and win it all. (well maybe he could still)

But the way you get your team together is the point here. If there is one really good team that wins it all but 3 other teams that beat each other up but can't beat that really good team , is it really considered a great victory when winning it all having a team consisting of the best player from each of those three teams?

Winning is winning. If you're team is a lot better than everyone then win big and make a statement. Put your goals beyond winning rings and try to be the best team ever or win the most rings. But especially from an athlete's perspective, "taking the easy way" is always the smart decision.

If someone offers you a better job in your line of work, where you can work with your good friends and have a greater chance of being a part of something revolutionary would you go, "no thanks, I want to earn it on my own." If you would, that's fine, but that's not logical and there's no glory in purposely taking the hard road to prove a point. That's just hard headed.

[billysan]

I took the Jordan comments totally differently. I think he was comparing the Miami big three to a bunch of kids on the playground setting up a stacked team. Three guys who are purposely setting up a scenario to play together.

I think Jordan is/was calling them out and saying they cant get it done on their own like he, Larry and Magic did back in the day. Not sure what his reasoning is, but that is how I take it.

Jordan, Bird and Magic all had huge ego's as well. They were Loyal to the organizations they played for and the organizations were to them. The teams they played for would do just about anything to keep them happy and the league supported that. No one dared be less than loyal for the most part, it just wasnt done.

I promise that if Magic had left the Lakers as a free agent and said "Larry, if you and I will take a smaller contract, we can play on the same team together", the whole NBA would have screamed collusion and there would have been lawsuits, lockouts and protests.

Today it is no big deal. No level of behavior is too outlandish for these guys.

[Celtics17]

Assuming that Jordan and Magic even made those comments it's all kind of silly. Both of them had very quality players on their squads. Ask yourself, who was the second and even the third best players that Magic and Jordan played with? It's pretty easy isnt it? Pippen and maybe Rodman or even Horace Grant. Now Magic had who? Kareem, Worthy, A.C. Green, Cooper, Rambis man there were several. Now, who was the second best player on the Cavs this year? Heck, it was probably Verajo and he didnt even start. Give me a break, these guys are young and hungry. Who cares how they win.

[crafty213]

Different situations all together.  Our big 3 were at the tail end of their careers and really had one last chance to become a champion after years of All-Star level performances. Lebron, Wade, and Bosh still have many years before they reach that point.  They basically gave up trying to be the man during the prime of their careers.  And of course KG, Pierce,and Ray did not hatch this plan out several years before it happened.

[BballTim]

Nick you are saying like Danny had all of this planned. In actually he had little to do with these trades other than hoping KG would sign an extension. Pierce heavily recruited these guys to come to the Celtics. He also pretty much told Danny how to do his job by initiating the trades.

  Is this supposed to be serious?

[dlpin]

Not getting into the whole current big 3 thing.

But regarding the Magic/Bird/Jordan thing:

The guys trying to compare their supporting casts to the cavs supporting cast have to have the shortest memory spans around. Of course teams were more stacked in the 80s. But that is because there were fewer teams in the 80s. So Bird had Mchale and Parish, Magic had Kareem and Worthy, etc. etc. but they were also playing teams with several hall of famers too.

Meanwhile, Lebron's next best teammate might be Mo Williams or Varejao, but he got clobbered by a Magic team that had Hedo Turkoglu as the second best player. This whole "but Lebron had no help" argument falls on its face when you remember that he got clobbered by a Magic team of 1 super star + 4 scrubs (2 of them who wouldn't start for any other playoff team).

By the way, Jordan was a free agent in 88, and signed an extension for 8 years. So yeah, he could have left before he won a title and resigned in a year when he had no help, as Pippen was years away from even being decent.

[Andy Jick]

Nick you are saying like Danny had all of this planned. In actually he had little to do with these trades other than hoping KG would sign an extension. Pierce heavily recruited these guys to come to the Celtics. He also pretty much told Danny how to do his job by initiating the trades.

Is this supposed to be serious?

"Jerry, just remember, it's not a lie if you believe it..."

[Celtics4ever]

One team a GM put together (us) the other was open collusion between three players.  MJ reads LeBron right though as not wanting to be a winner.

[LarBrd33]

You can't compare it for a few reasons.

#1 - Ray and Pierce were never on KG's level.  KG was a legitimate superstar and top 5 player in the league.  Pierce and Ray were allstars.  Big difference.  If LeBron was joining a team with Amare and Joe Johnson, he wouldnt' be getting nearly the amount of hate he is getting for joining another legitimate superstar in Wade.   It would have been like if KG (in his prime) decided to leave the Timberwolves and form a superteam Kobe and Yao Ming.   People would consider it a coward move by KG.  

#2 - KG was traded.. he didn't willingly rip out the hearts of a city that worshipped him.

#3 - All three of the Celtics were already past their prime.  If you want to compare our situation to anything then compare it to the 96-97 Rockets who had Barkley, Drexler and Hakeem all over 33 years old.  Except that Hakeem in his prime was better than KG... and Barkley in his prime was better than Pierce.   That Rockets team lost in the WCF.  

[Finkelskyhook]

I don't really much care what a guy who was officiated along the lines of the messiah for all of his championship years and the fake disease guy who can't put together a coherent sentence think.

[guava_wrench]

Not getting into the whole current big 3 thing.

But regarding the Magic/Bird/Jordan thing:

The guys trying to compare their supporting casts to the cavs supporting cast have to have the shortest memory spans around. Of course teams were more stacked in the 80s. But that is because there were fewer teams in the 80s. So Bird had Mchale and Parish, Magic had Kareem and Worthy, etc. etc. but they were also playing teams with several hall of famers too.

Meanwhile, Lebron's next best teammate might be Mo Williams or Varejao, but he got clobbered by a Magic team that had Hedo Turkoglu as the second best player. This whole "but Lebron had no help" argument falls on its face when you remember that he got clobbered by a Magic team of 1 super star + 4 scrubs (2 of them who wouldn't start for any other playoff team).

By the way, Jordan was a free agent in 88, and signed an extension for 8 years. So yeah, he could have left before he won a title and resigned in a year when he had no help, as Pippen was years away from even being decent.

How many fewer teams were there? There really wasn't much of a difference. Miami, Vancouver, Orlando, Toronto, Charlotte1, Charlotte2. Have any other teams been added? That really isn't that much of a difference considering the influx of foreign born players.

Your Magic argument is also very weak because it in no way addresses the point of contention. Even having Bird, McHale & Parish together doesn't guarantee you anything in a particular series. But it does give you a great chance that Bird with scrubs wouldn't have.

There is a lot of over-analysis going on with people pretending to have profound things to say when so many are just tailoring their arguments to fit their biases. We can see this in people who feel Ray Allen has what it takes to win it all though they didn't believe Ray did before he came to town. The same can be said for KG.

People want to drape some sports cliche narrative over events. In the end, circumstance plays a tremendous role in a player's fortunes. People who ignore this fact end up thinking Derek Fisher and Robert Horry were better than they actually were.

[guava_wrench]

I don't really much care what a guy who was officiated along the lines of the messiah for all of his championship years and the fake disease guy who can't put together a coherent sentence think.

Fake disease guy? I would think you would be referring to Magic with the coherent sentence bit because he may be the worst commentator out there at making meaningful points, but Magic has a very legit virus.

That was a really odd way to refer to Magic.

[Andy Jick]

I don't really much care what a guy who was officiated along the lines of the messiah for all of his championship years and the fake disease guy who can't put together a coherent sentence think.

Fake disease guy? I would think you would be referring to Magic with the coherent sentence bit because he may be the worst commentator out there at making meaningful points, but Magic has a very legit virus.

That was a really odd way to refer to Magic.

Strong case of the flu?

I don't like Magic, but I hope he lives a healthy life.  I was worried he'd morph into that guy that Tom Hanks played in 'Philadelphia.'

[dlpin]

How many fewer teams were there? There really wasn't much of a difference. Miami, Vancouver, Orlando, Toronto, Charlotte1, Charlotte2. Have any other teams been added? That really isn't that much of a difference considering the influx of foreign born players.

Your Magic argument is also very weak because it in no way addresses the point of contention. Even having Bird, McHale & Parish together doesn't guarantee you anything in a particular series. But it does give you a great chance that Bird with scrubs wouldn't have.

There is a lot of over-analysis going on with people pretending to have profound things to say when so many are just tailoring their arguments to fit their biases. We can see this in people who feel Ray Allen has what it takes to win it all though they didn't believe Ray did before he came to town. The same can be said for KG.

People want to drape some sports cliche narrative over events. In the end, circumstance plays a tremendous role in a player's fortunes. People who ignore this fact end up thinking Derek Fisher and Robert Horry were better than they actually were.

23 to 30 is signficant expansion. Especially when we take into account that expansion has taken place primarily in lesser profitable areas, weighing the cap and luxury tax down. It is especially so regardless of foreign talent, as there simply isn't enough talent out there to make the top teams as stacked as they were in the past. Boston and the lakers weren't the only teams with that level of talent.

As for the rest, I fail to see how any of it addresses any of the points I made. Especially when your own point about overrating Derek Fisher and Robert Horry actually supports my argument.

Lebron's teammates were worse than the teammates other superstars had in the 80s. But his opposition is also worse. Now, sure, he has a better shot with his new team. But Jordan/Bird/Magic would also have had a better shot in their own super team.

[kg is king]

The celtics big 3 did not come together and develop a scenario where they could play together. As Celtics fans we all know that our current big 3 was assembled by a domino effect. Ray first came to Boston and then KG followed suit. And once again to reiterate my earlier point, KG+Ray+Pierce were all perenial all-stars, but they ain't no Lebron + Wade + Bosh. Lebron has more MVPs then all three combined and Wade is repeatedly in the mix as well. I love our guys but to compare our big 3 to Miami's big 3 is like taking a Porsche and saying it is as high class as a lambo.