Is Our Bench Really That Bad?

[BballTim]

You people who keep insisting on saying Avery Bradley is a SG are going to be very disappointed when you see that he is actually a PG. I watched about 5-6 of his games at Texas. He played SG there because his coach is a moron who recruited him after already having 2 or 3 PGs on the team and no SGs.

His position in the NBA will be at PG. As I have said elsewhere, his situation is very similar to that of Russell Westbrook who played SG at UCLA because the coach there had other people(Darren Collison or Jrue Holiday can't remember)playing PG. But when he went to OKC he played at PG and excelled. Expect something similar with Bradley.

  Even if he'll eventually be a pg, according to some of the draft sites he's a very good catch and shoot guy. Why couldn't he back up Ray for small stretches?

Tony Allen backed up Rondo for short stretches of time. It never once made him a PG. Pierce over the last 3 years has played the 4 spot infrequently(1%-2% of the team's total minutes at the position), that doesn't make him a PF.

Will Bradley back up Ray at times? Sure, infrequently but yes. That still does not make him a shooting guard.

  But the point isn't whether Bradley's a shooting guard, it's whether he can play one when Ray's on the bench. Clearly it would be easier for a decent sized good pg to play the sg spot than vice versa.

[nickagneta]

You people who keep insisting on saying Avery Bradley is a SG are going to be very disappointed when you see that he is actually a PG. I watched about 5-6 of his games at Texas. He played SG there because his coach is a moron who recruited him after already having 2 or 3 PGs on the team and no SGs.

His position in the NBA will be at PG. As I have said elsewhere, his situation is very similar to that of Russell Westbrook who played SG at UCLA because the coach there had other people(Darren Collison or Jrue Holiday can't remember)playing PG. But when he went to OKC he played at PG and excelled. Expect something similar with Bradley.

  Even if he'll eventually be a pg, according to some of the draft sites he's a very good catch and shoot guy. Why couldn't he back up Ray for small stretches?

Tony Allen backed up Rondo for short stretches of time. It never once made him a PG. Pierce over the last 3 years has played the 4 spot infrequently(1%-2% of the team's total minutes at the position), that doesn't make him a PF.

Will Bradley back up Ray at times? Sure, infrequently but yes. That still does not make him a shooting guard.

  But the point isn't whether Bradley's a shooting guard, it's whether he can play one when Ray's on the bench. Clearly it would be easier for a decent sized good pg to play the sg spot than vice versa.

The point is on many occasions people are insisting that Bradley is a SG both in the short and long term. That is not true and what I was pointing out. I don't rule out that he could and may well play some SG the same way Tony and Paul and others play out of position during the year. But he will not be solely or even primarily used as a SG. It's not his permanent position or his future.

Too many people are looking at the current roster and mistakenly sliding Bradley into a position that he won't and shouldn't be playing. He's a point guard. Danny will get other players to be the SG/SF backups. I  am just trying to have people see that this club isn't complete yet and that Bradley is in no way a SG.

[MR.BOMB]

I not so sure we'll be counting on Bradley to play so many minutes this year.

I'm sure we'll have other wings coming in.

Otherwise the Bench so far is getting there.  Too soon to judge until other moves are made. If this is what it looks like come October- we're in a lot of trouble and will be seeing LOTS of minutes played by Bradley and other rookies.

[Jon]

Right now our bench COULD conceivably be as good as last year's, but that's reliant on two big IFs: Perk being 100% or close by the playoffs and Avery Bradley being as good as Tony Allen. 

But even then, we still don't have anyone to guard 3s when Pierce is on the bench. 

I think the bigger concern is that we likely need a better bench than last year to contend.  I really think that even with Perk out, we would've won game 7 if we had a better wing off the bench.  Allen and Pierce were absolutely exhausted by the end of the year from being overplayed.  Get someone to reliably give them time off, and I think we win it all this year. 

Jon, just wondering, if Pierce and Ray Allen played the least amount of minutes on a per game basis than they ever have in their entire careers last year, at 34 and 35 minutes per game each respectively, were overplayed, then how many minutes per game do they have to be played this year to NOT be considered being overplayed?

33 minutes? 31 minutes? 30 minutes? I really think that if you want a bench good enough to be able to play those guys minutes in that range for a whole year then you are going to need some very high quality backups at the SG and SF positions in order to both be successful enough to win enough games and get the starters rest that you believe they require.And, I'm just not sure we have the resources to find guys of that quality.

Well, you're right, it's a problem given our financial situation. 

Here's my problem.  In the playoffs, Pierce and Allen played over 38 mpg each.  KG played 33 mpg.  Thus, over the course of their 24 games, the Ray and Paul played 120 extra minutes, which I think accounts for some of their issues trying to take over the in the second half of the Lakers' series. 

Ultimately, I'd like to see them play something closer to the 32-34 mpg mark throughout the season.  I see no reason why they can't do that.  Wins don't matter that much at this point.  In the playoffs, I'd like to see them stick as close to that as possible. 

Is it possible?  I don't know.  I think so.  The reason KG was able to average 33 mpg in the playoffs this year compared to his 38 mpg in 2008 is because we had two backup bigs who could play big minutes.  To this day, we've still yet to find two reliable wings to backup Pierce and Allen.  In '08 it was Posey; last year it was TA. 

I think we can obtain someone fairly good with Sheed's deal.  If we were to combine that with someone like Rasual Butler or even Marquis Daniels, I think that would likely be enough to eat up what only needs to be about 28-30 mpg.  Plus, I also think it helps a lot to have great strength at the other bench spots than in years past.  Nate can take over games, which takes pressure off the wings to do that.  Plus, if JO eventually goes to the bench, an offense can be run through him. 

So yes, it's gonna be tough, but I think it's possible and I think it needs to happen unless we're going to get lucky in a lot of other ways (like Bradly being a stud or JO and KG finding their '08 form). 

[guava_wrench]

Bare with me and consider Kendrick is coming back.  That leaves our starting five intact.  Then off the bench we have Nate and Glen Davis, two high energy guys that don't give up too much on defense and can at times spark on offense (they also seem to work well together).  Then add O'neil who at least is a wash with Sheed from last year.  So far we're in the same shape.  Now trade Tony Allen for Bradley and this is where the difference does begin to show but all indication is this young kid can d-up legit two guards and provide a more reliable offensive option then Tony.  The only difference is the versatility Tony provided as he could guard small forwards to spell Pierce at times and I agree we need a wing to bring balance to this ship but with what we have and Docs preference to run 8-9 players anyway how are we any worse really?

We have zero legit backup wings. Bradley is more of the project with potential type than NBA ready player. We can always speculate that every unproven player could be a legit contributor, but that is way too indulgent for me.

[Who]

Right now our bench COULD conceivably be as good as last year's, but that's reliant on two big IFs: Perk being 100% or close by the playoffs and Avery Bradley being as good as Tony Allen. 

But even then, we still don't have anyone to guard 3s when Pierce is on the bench. 

I think the bigger concern is that we likely need a better bench than last year to contend.  I really think that even with Perk out, we would've won game 7 if we had a better wing off the bench.  Allen and Pierce were absolutely exhausted by the end of the year from being overplayed.  Get someone to reliably give them time off, and I think we win it all this year. 

Jon, just wondering, if Pierce and Ray Allen played the least amount of minutes on a per game basis than they ever have in their entire careers last year, at 34 and 35 minutes per game each respectively, were overplayed, then how many minutes per game do they have to be played this year to NOT be considered being overplayed?

33 minutes? 31 minutes? 30 minutes? I really think that if you want a bench good enough to be able to play those guys minutes in that range for a whole year then you are going to need some very high quality backups at the SG and SF positions in order to both be successful enough to win enough games and get the starters rest that you believe they require.And, I'm just not sure we have the resources to find guys of that quality.

Well, you're right, it's a problem given our financial situation. 

Here's my problem.  In the playoffs, Pierce and Allen played over 38 mpg each.  KG played 33 mpg.  Thus, over the course of their 24 games, the Ray and Paul played 120 extra minutes, which I think accounts for some of their issues trying to take over the in the second half of the Lakers' series. 

Ultimately, I'd like to see them play something closer to the 32-34 mpg mark throughout the season.  I see no reason why they can't do that.  Wins don't matter that much at this point.  In the playoffs, I'd like to see them stick as close to that as possible. 

Is it possible?  I don't know.  I think so.  The reason KG was able to average 33 mpg in the playoffs this year compared to his 38 mpg in 2008 is because we had two backup bigs who could play big minutes.  To this day, we've still yet to find two reliable wings to backup Pierce and Allen.  In '08 it was Posey; last year it was TA. 

I think we can obtain someone fairly good with Sheed's deal.  If we were to combine that with someone like Rasual Butler or even Marquis Daniels, I think that would likely be enough to eat up what only needs to be about 28-30 mpg.  Plus, I also think it helps a lot to have great strength at the other bench spots than in years past.  Nate can take over games, which takes pressure off the wings to do that.  Plus, if JO eventually goes to the bench, an offense can be run through him. 

So yes, it's gonna be tough, but I think it's possible and I think it needs to happen unless we're going to get lucky in a lot of other ways (like Bradly being a stud or JO and KG finding their '08 form). 

I'd like to see how Ray would respond to playing only 30 minutes a night.

In the past, I've always felt that Ray was the type of player who played better with more minutes. That a decrease in minutes led to more inconsistency for him. Less feel, less rhythm, in the game.

But given Ray's increased struggles over the past two years, especially when there is little rest between games, I'd like to see how he responds to decrease in minutes. Maybe he'd handle it better now than he did in the past. I don't know if it'd work ... but I'd like to see it tested to check.

I am not so concerned about Pierce. At least not yet. I think he's still pretty comfortable playing 35-36 minutes a night and a couple more during the playoffs.