Author Topic: Bring Back JR Giddens  (Read 8860 times)

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Re: Bring Back JR Giddens
« Reply #30 on: July 18, 2010, 11:28:03 AM »

Offline JBcat

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Seriously,what was DA thinking when he drafted JR. Watching JR run up the court alone was enough to not buy his game. He wasn't as athletic as was they said. The drama of having to transfer from Kansas,just another sign. Like I said,when the foot speed doesn't match the physique,you should pass. I will never forget thinking we were going to get Mario Chalmers.
I concur - TP.  When Ainge took him, I said, who?  I thought we should have drafted Bill Walker with the 30th pick that year, but now that I think about it, we really should have selected Chris Douglas-Roberts. 

I may be one of the few here but I'm not sure CDR would have been a better pick.   He doesn't seem to play a lick of D and not much of a passer or rebounder it seems.   Yeah he can score a little but he put up some points on a pretty awful team.  I don't think he can do that on a good team.   So I think I would pass on CDR again as I don't think he would have helped the past couple years. 

Re: Bring Back JR Giddens
« Reply #31 on: July 18, 2010, 11:34:56 AM »

Offline hwangjini_1

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Beat LA, well done post with a lot of good points..

But in fairness, not all the choices mentioned were danny's call.  I believe bell and jones were chosen at the request of Jerry west so a trade could take place. That got the celtics Perkins..

Also, you might wish to ass Tony Allen to your list of college players who did pan out for ainge.

But again, as other threads have pointed out, it is hard to judge ainges misses unless you stack his successes up against other GMs misses and hits.

Just viewing ainge misses the point that a LOT of gms missed Ellis et al.
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Re: Bring Back JR Giddens
« Reply #32 on: July 18, 2010, 11:51:48 AM »

Offline clover

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I'd take another look at this guy --  http://www.nba.com/summerleague2010/players/lester_hudson/index.html -- before I'd bring back JR.  And I don't think I'd really bother to take another look at Lester.

Re: Bring Back JR Giddens
« Reply #33 on: July 18, 2010, 12:42:49 PM »

Offline More Banners

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Trading the seven was not one of Danny's proudest moments.

And I am not going to expunge the trading of a pick from the record. He gets credit for moving the 5, as the only real thing of value in the Garnett and Allen deals.

He gets demerits for trading the 7.

I think it was the biggest judgement calls that will define his GMship so far.  It was the price he was willing to pay to clean up a mess, but it ensured a worse team the following season.

If that pick was kept and used to get Brandon Roy, then the #5 pick doesn't need to be traded for Ray Allen.  Perhaps we have a better record and it's not a #5...but in any case, giving away the #7 pick mainly in exchange for a slightly more favorable contract is a sure way to get a future #5.

Am I right?  Did this perhaps demonstrate that Danny is willing to completely punt a season?

Re: Bring Back JR Giddens
« Reply #34 on: July 19, 2010, 12:03:33 AM »

Offline Beat LA

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Dannys mistakes are so plentiful...

He missed on Gerald but how was he supposed to know that the young kid was to stupid to ever mature.

But you can’t judge a GM by his misses when they are all either late in the first or not in the first at all. These are all flawed players. It’s not like he’s been missing with top 5 picks. And your discounting the guys that he acquired through the draft

And your wrong on Lester Hudson that kid can play, he’s not a hall of famer, or and all-star, but he’s definitely high value for the 3rd to last pick taken.

Your just using way too much hindsight.

I strongly disagree with alot of what you’ve said. But i’ll TP you for a nice little read.  :)

Okay, first of all - thanks for the TP and rebuttal. 

In regards to "how was Ainge supposed to know if Gerald would ever mature/pan out?," isn't that the point of paying the guy who can look into a person's eyes and see what path their career will take?

Additionally, in no way am I disregarding the players that he acquired through the draft.  Rather, I pointed out that trading Raef and Dickau led to Ratliff's contract and that he also traded for Perk and Marcus Banks on draft day three years prior.  Plus, if you can't judge a GM by the players that he chooses in the late first round and/or the second round - how are you supposed to judge him?  So he has been spot on with top five picks - big deal.  For the most part, I would think that any passionate college basketball fan could draw the same conclusions about the top players in any draft; and to say that the players taken both late in the first round and the second round are flawed is ridiculous.  Many players taken in the lottery have been far less polished coming out of school than those who stayed for the full four years.  I think one could successfully argue that in fact it is the players taken later on in the draft that are more intelligent, well-rounded, and have a more complete game - although their ceiling may or may not be as high as that of a lottery pick.  Four-year college players have a higher intellectual knowledge of the game than those who are of the one and done variety.

On Lester Hudson - I never said the kid can't play, but come on, he was already 25 on draft day, was apparently one of those "workout wonders," and has yet to make any kind of name for himself in the NBA - despite going to a much younger squad after Boston cut him.  Sure, he scored at a 27.5 points per game clip at college at a smaller school, but he only averaged 5.25 free throw attempts a game.  His high for free throws attempted in a game during his senior year was 13, which is good, but this was not achieved consistently over the course over his final campaign.  In looking at the numerous players that have had great success in the NBA despite coming from small schools, alot of them register high free throw attempt numbers in college - especially as they mature as players.  For example, Kevin Martin, Danny Granger, and Rodney Stuckey have all come from smaller schools but had high scoring averages in college and got to the free throw line 9.33, 6.8, and 8.8 times a game, respectively.  I regard free throw attempts as an important stat, especially concerning players coming from smaller schools (although I will acknowledge that not every successful NBA player that has come from a smaller school has led their respective league in free throw attempts, but it is still, for the most part, a common thread among a large number of such successful players).  Now, back to Lester.  How many players have been selected at that age (25) and have gone on to have great careers?  The only one that comes to mind is Dennis Rodman, and he was a special case (in more ways than one).  Oh, and Wesley Matthews is unquestionably more valuable (despite the fact that he went undrafted) than the player (Hudson) who was taken with the third from last pick in the 2009 NBA Draft.

Lastly, what alternative do I have but to use hindsight in an argument such as this?

Re: Bring Back JR Giddens
« Reply #35 on: July 19, 2010, 03:51:23 AM »

Offline timepiece33

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Trading the seven was not one of Danny's proudest moments.

And I am not going to expunge the trading of a pick from the record. He gets credit for moving the 5, as the only real thing of value in the Garnett and Allen deals.

He gets demerits for trading the 7.

I think it was the biggest judgement calls that will define his GMship so far.  It was the price he was willing to pay to clean up a mess, but it ensured a worse team the following season.

If that pick was kept and used to get Brandon Roy, then the #5 pick doesn't need to be traded for Ray Allen.  Perhaps we have a better record and it's not a #5...but in any case, giving away the #7 pick mainly in exchange for a slightly more favorable contract is a sure way to get a future #5.

Am I right?  Did this perhaps demonstrate that Danny is willing to completely punt a season?

He gets demerits for making the trade that put us in a position to get Kevin Garnett?  With Raef's salary, it wouldn't have happened.   Period. 

We'd have Al Jefferson, Brandon Roy or Rudy Gay, and the makings of a good young team.   I'll also say that there were a lot of rumors that we were going to select Rondo at #8 before Roy fell.  No one could have predicted the Hawks selecting Sheldon Williams.   

Re: Bring Back JR Giddens
« Reply #36 on: July 19, 2010, 09:31:27 AM »

Offline Jevi

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A GM is suppose to take chances after evaluations,so I won't blame Danny on taking shots. Give him credit he,not Pitino/Wallace just accepted the roll of dice. He had a plan B to bring in the big 3. That is enough to forgive the drafting of before,because it got us the big 3. Although,as I said too,if you're lucky to build a team that beats the Lakers,you must either keep them together or improve the team. Choose to let Posey walk, bring in a suitable replacement. Giddens as I said couldn't even run down the court,maybe due to the stabbed leg,who knows. Worst, Mario Chalmers was there,he is today a top notch defender,and the reason Miami won the one game against us in playoffs. I won't even mention Pruitt.

Re: Bring Back JR Giddens
« Reply #37 on: July 19, 2010, 09:34:45 AM »

Offline Bankshot

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I'd take another look at this guy --  http://www.nba.com/summerleague2010/players/lester_hudson/index.html -- before I'd bring back JR.  And I don't think I'd really bother to take another look at Lester.

I wouldn't take a look at Lester.  We don't need him now with Rondo, Nate and Bradley.
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Re: Bring Back JR Giddens
« Reply #38 on: July 19, 2010, 10:08:26 AM »

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Trading the seven was not one of Danny's proudest moments.

And I am not going to expunge the trading of a pick from the record. He gets credit for moving the 5, as the only real thing of value in the Garnett and Allen deals.

He gets demerits for trading the 7.

I think it was the biggest judgement calls that will define his GMship so far.  It was the price he was willing to pay to clean up a mess, but it ensured a worse team the following season.

If that pick was kept and used to get Brandon Roy, then the #5 pick doesn't need to be traded for Ray Allen.  Perhaps we have a better record and it's not a #5...but in any case, giving away the #7 pick mainly in exchange for a slightly more favorable contract is a sure way to get a future #5.

Am I right?  Did this perhaps demonstrate that Danny is willing to completely punt a season?

He gets demerits for making the trade that put us in a position to get Kevin Garnett?  With Raef's salary, it wouldn't have happened.   Period.  

We'd have Al Jefferson, Brandon Roy or Rudy Gay, and the makings of a good young team.   I'll also say that there were a lot of rumors that we were going to select Rondo at #8 before Roy fell.  No one could have predicted the Hawks selecting Sheldon Williams.  

He absolutely gets demerits for trading a lottery pick (talent) for nothing more than cap space, and not even immediate cap space at that, especially since he created the cap problem himself.

Yes, that's right.
« Last Edit: July 19, 2010, 10:14:00 AM by More Banners »