How Does LeBron Match Up Against Scottie Pippen?

[Mike-Dub]

Lebron is one of them, Pippen is not.

I can understand being Afraid of LeBron when he had the ball in his hands in the '08 playoffs, but after that never again have I been afraid of LeBron when he had the ball in his hands.

Somewhere after that series he lost it the it that Michael had and all the greats that led their teams! 

So that type of reasoning makes Pippen better than Lebron, huh?

Did I ever say that as one of my reasons, no. 

I just said that somewhere after '08 against us, LeBron lost it.  What I was saying then had nothing to do with the LeBron to Pippen comparison and I don't know where you got that it did.

You mean when he won MVPs.  Oh, and in 2009 where he went deeper into the playoffs then he did in 2008?

The last 4 years, he has lost to the superior teams of SA in the finals, Boston in the semi, Orlando in conference Final and Boston in the Semi.

Just because he went deeper in '09 doesn't mean what he did in the playoffs was more impressive than '08 because it was not at all.  LeBron's Cavs were worse in'08 than they were in '09 and if he played like he did in '08 against us who were a better team than the one he faced in the ECF in "09 then he would have gone to the Finals that year.

And yes I do mean when he won MVPs because of course what is an MVP worth if you can't get it done when it counts in the playoffs. 

[FallGuy]

The only argument I can see people making for Pippen over Lebron (besides the shaky at best rings argument) is people have such blind hatred of Lebron (which we've seen plenty of on these boards lately) that they refuse to try to use statistics or even their own eye-sight to believe something that should be relatively obvious.  

I think you've hit the nail on the head here.

Pippen is undeniably a great, great player who had a great career.

But Lebron is clearly a better player now and is on the verge of what will probably be his half-dozen best years as a pro.

People hate him. Fair enough.

But the guy is awesome on the court.

[wdleehi]

The only argument I can see people making for Pippen over Lebron (besides the shaky at best rings argument) is people have such blind hatred of Lebron (which we've seen plenty of on these boards lately) that they refuse to try to use statistics or even their own eye-sight to believe something that should be relatively obvious. 

Statistics aren't everything!  Kobe had the best stats in the Finals, but we all know Pau Gasol should have been the Finals MVP.  Just because someone had better stats didn't mean he had more of an impact on the court.

We should all know that especially since the best player in our franchise played proved that himself (Of course his defensive stats would have been great had they kept them then).

Funny thing about that.


26.8 points, 9.3 rebounds, 7.2 assists 45 % shooting 4.5 TO

vs.

28.6 points, 8 rebounds, 3.9 assists  40% shooting 3.9 TO

against Boston in the playoffs

Guess who is who.


Difference.  Gasol.

[Donoghus]

Lebron is one of them, Pippen is not.

I can understand being Afraid of LeBron when he had the ball in his hands in the '08 playoffs, but after that never again have I been afraid of LeBron when he had the ball in his hands.

Somewhere after that series he lost it the it that Michael had and all the greats that led their teams!  

So that type of reasoning makes Pippen better than Lebron, huh?

Did I ever say that as one of my reasons, no.  

I just said that somewhere after '08 against us, LeBron lost it.  What I was saying then had nothing to do with the LeBron to Pippen comparison and I don't know where you got that it did.

You mean when he won MVPs.  Oh, and in 2009 where he went deeper into the playoffs then he did in 2008?

The last 4 years, he has lost to the superior teams of SA in the finals, Boston in the semi, Orlando in conference Final and Boston in the Semi.

Just because he went deeper in '09 doesn't mean what he did in the playoffs was more impressive than '08 because it was not at all.  LeBron's Cavs were worse in'08 than they were in '09 and if he played like he did in '08 against us who were a better team than the one he faced in the ECF in "09 then he would have gone to the Finals that year.

And yes I do mean when he won MVPs because of course what is an MVP worth if you can't get it done when it counts in the playoffs.  

Did you actually get to watch Pippen is his prime?  On television or in person during those Bulls runs and even when he was on Portland.

Can you honestly tell me that was a better basketball player than Lebron James?  With a straight face?

[Mike-Dub]

The only argument I can see people making for Pippen over Lebron (besides the shaky at best rings argument) is people have such blind hatred of Lebron (which we've seen plenty of on these boards lately) that they refuse to try to use statistics or even their own eye-sight to believe something that should be relatively obvious. 

Statistics aren't everything!  Kobe had the best stats in the Finals, but we all know Pau Gasol should have been the Finals MVP.  Just because someone had better stats didn't mean he had more of an impact on the court.

We should all know that especially since the best player in our franchise played proved that himself (Of course his defensive stats would have been great had they kept them then).

Funny thing about that.


26.8 points, 9.3 rebounds, 7.2 assists 45 % shooting 4.5 TO

vs.

28.6 points, 8 rebounds, 3.9 assists  40% shooting 3.9 TO

against Boston in the playoffs

Guess who is who.



Difference.  Gasol.

I have no idea what that means lol? Kobe's numbers are the second one.  And if you think the first ones are Gasol, which I don't think you do, they are not.  I really don't know who's those are.

[wdleehi]

The only argument I can see people making for Pippen over Lebron (besides the shaky at best rings argument) is people have such blind hatred of Lebron (which we've seen plenty of on these boards lately) that they refuse to try to use statistics or even their own eye-sight to believe something that should be relatively obvious. 

Statistics aren't everything!  Kobe had the best stats in the Finals, but we all know Pau Gasol should have been the Finals MVP.  Just because someone had better stats didn't mean he had more of an impact on the court.

We should all know that especially since the best player in our franchise played proved that himself (Of course his defensive stats would have been great had they kept them then).

Funny thing about that.


26.8 points, 9.3 rebounds, 7.2 assists 45 % shooting 4.5 TO

vs.

28.6 points, 8 rebounds, 3.9 assists  40% shooting 3.9 TO

against Boston in the playoffs

Guess who is who.



Difference.  Gasol.

I have no idea what that means lol? Kobe's numbers are the second one.  And if you think the first ones are Gasol, which I don't think you do, they are not.

No, the first ones are Lebron's vs the Celtics in the playoffs. 


If he quit, then Kobe must have as well since those numbers are so close.  (actually, Lebrons are better overall)

Celtics defense wreaked both of these players games.  The only reason that Kobe is the MVP and Lebron is accused of quitting is that the other Lakers stepped up and made the Celtics pay.  The other Cavs, rolled over and died.  Is it a shock he left the team that doesn't help him when he gets to the best teams? 

Didn't Kobe threaten the leave the Lakers before they got Gasol?

Didn't Pierce, KG and Ray all want their teams to either trade them or get another star to go with them? 


You bash Lebron because he took less money to play with more talent then praise Pippen for staying in Jordon's shadow. 


How many double standards are we going to use?

[Mike-Dub]

Lebron is one of them, Pippen is not.

I can understand being Afraid of LeBron when he had the ball in his hands in the '08 playoffs, but after that never again have I been afraid of LeBron when he had the ball in his hands.

Somewhere after that series he lost it the it that Michael had and all the greats that led their teams!  

So that type of reasoning makes Pippen better than Lebron, huh?

Did I ever say that as one of my reasons, no.  

I just said that somewhere after '08 against us, LeBron lost it.  What I was saying then had nothing to do with the LeBron to Pippen comparison and I don't know where you got that it did.

You mean when he won MVPs.  Oh, and in 2009 where he went deeper into the playoffs then he did in 2008?

The last 4 years, he has lost to the superior teams of SA in the finals, Boston in the semi, Orlando in conference Final and Boston in the Semi.

Just because he went deeper in '09 doesn't mean what he did in the playoffs was more impressive than '08 because it was not at all.  LeBron's Cavs were worse in'08 than they were in '09 and if he played like he did in '08 against us who were a better team than the one he faced in the ECF in "09 then he would have gone to the Finals that year.

And yes I do mean when he won MVPs because of course what is an MVP worth if you can't get it done when it counts in the playoffs.  

Did you actually get to watch Pippen is his prime?  On television or in person during those Bulls runs and even when he was on Portland.

Can you honestly tell me that was a better basketball player than Lebron James?  With a straight face?

Yes!  At this point in LeBron's career he is.  And what does that have to do with the quote before where I said just because LeBron went to the playoffs deeper one year means he did worse.

[Mike-Dub]

The only argument I can see people making for Pippen over Lebron (besides the shaky at best rings argument) is people have such blind hatred of Lebron (which we've seen plenty of on these boards lately) that they refuse to try to use statistics or even their own eye-sight to believe something that should be relatively obvious. 

Statistics aren't everything!  Kobe had the best stats in the Finals, but we all know Pau Gasol should have been the Finals MVP.  Just because someone had better stats didn't mean he had more of an impact on the court.

We should all know that especially since the best player in our franchise played proved that himself (Of course his defensive stats would have been great had they kept them then).

Funny thing about that.


26.8 points, 9.3 rebounds, 7.2 assists 45 % shooting 4.5 TO

vs.

28.6 points, 8 rebounds, 3.9 assists  40% shooting 3.9 TO

against Boston in the playoffs

Guess who is who.



Difference.  Gasol.

I have no idea what that means lol? Kobe's numbers are the second one.  And if you think the first ones are Gasol, which I don't think you do, they are not.

No, the first ones are Lebron's vs the Celtics in the playoffs. 


If he quit, then Kobe must have as well since those numbers are so close.  (actually, Lebrons are better overall)

Celtics defense wreaked both of these players games.  The only reason that Kobe is the MVP and Lebron is accused of quitting is that the other Lakers stepped up and made the Celtics pay.  The other Cavs, rolled over and died.  Is it a shock he left the team that doesn't help him when he gets to the best teams? 

Didn't Kobe threaten the leave the Lakers before they got Gasol?

Didn't Pierce, KG and Ray all want their teams to either trade them or get another star to go with them? 


You bash Lebron because he took less money to play with more talent then praise Pippen for staying in Jordon's shadow. 


How many double standards are we going to use?

No we shut both of them down, we made LeBron quit!  And LeBron did quit, along with the rest of his team!  You remember them being down 9 points when they still had a chance, albeit not a good one, and Mike Brown screamed at them to foul and LeBron didn't do anything and the rest of his team followed, Kobe never would have done that!

Also LeBron isn't taking much less money at all because of the no state tax. 

And yes LeBron may have put up better numbers, but those were the weakest 26.8 points, 9.3 rebounds, 7.2 assists 45 % shooting 4.5 TO.  LeBron's were a soft 26.8, 9.3, 7.2 with 45% shooting.  You could see that Kobe was busting his butt off and trying to do w.e. it takes for his team, you couldn't see that from LeBron.

Kobe and Pierce had to do that to get the front office to get talented players around them.  There was no way either of those players were going to get traded unless we got the number one or two pick. 

The only reason that Kobe is MVP is because Perk got hurt because we would have won it with a healthy Perk! And because the whole world is on Kobe's you know what! 

Just because someone had good stats doesn't mean they had the largest impact on the game!  Gasol should have been the MVP!

That is my point just because LeBrons stats are better than Pippens doesn't mean his impact for his team and on the games was more than Pippens! 

[Donoghus]

Lebron is one of them, Pippen is not.

I can understand being Afraid of LeBron when he had the ball in his hands in the '08 playoffs, but after that never again have I been afraid of LeBron when he had the ball in his hands.

Somewhere after that series he lost it the it that Michael had and all the greats that led their teams!  

So that type of reasoning makes Pippen better than Lebron, huh?

Did I ever say that as one of my reasons, no.  

I just said that somewhere after '08 against us, LeBron lost it.  What I was saying then had nothing to do with the LeBron to Pippen comparison and I don't know where you got that it did.

You mean when he won MVPs.  Oh, and in 2009 where he went deeper into the playoffs then he did in 2008?

The last 4 years, he has lost to the superior teams of SA in the finals, Boston in the semi, Orlando in conference Final and Boston in the Semi.

Just because he went deeper in '09 doesn't mean what he did in the playoffs was more impressive than '08 because it was not at all.  LeBron's Cavs were worse in'08 than they were in '09 and if he played like he did in '08 against us who were a better team than the one he faced in the ECF in "09 then he would have gone to the Finals that year.

And yes I do mean when he won MVPs because of course what is an MVP worth if you can't get it done when it counts in the playoffs.  

Did you actually get to watch Pippen is his prime?  On television or in person during those Bulls runs and even when he was on Portland.

Can you honestly tell me that was a better basketball player than Lebron James?  With a straight face?

Yes!  At this point in LeBron's career he is.  And what does that have to do with the quote before where I said just because LeBron went to the playoffs deeper one year means he did worse.

Because I don't feel the need to beat around the bush on this one.  I want to get to the heart of the matter which is the claim that Pippen was a better basketball player than Lebron.

[Mike-Dub]

Lebron is one of them, Pippen is not.

I can understand being Afraid of LeBron when he had the ball in his hands in the '08 playoffs, but after that never again have I been afraid of LeBron when he had the ball in his hands.

Somewhere after that series he lost it the it that Michael had and all the greats that led their teams!  

So that type of reasoning makes Pippen better than Lebron, huh?

Did I ever say that as one of my reasons, no.  

I just said that somewhere after '08 against us, LeBron lost it.  What I was saying then had nothing to do with the LeBron to Pippen comparison and I don't know where you got that it did.

You mean when he won MVPs.  Oh, and in 2009 where he went deeper into the playoffs then he did in 2008?

The last 4 years, he has lost to the superior teams of SA in the finals, Boston in the semi, Orlando in conference Final and Boston in the Semi.

Just because he went deeper in '09 doesn't mean what he did in the playoffs was more impressive than '08 because it was not at all.  LeBron's Cavs were worse in'08 than they were in '09 and if he played like he did in '08 against us who were a better team than the one he faced in the ECF in "09 then he would have gone to the Finals that year.

And yes I do mean when he won MVPs because of course what is an MVP worth if you can't get it done when it counts in the playoffs.  

Did you actually get to watch Pippen is his prime?  On television or in person during those Bulls runs and even when he was on Portland.

Can you honestly tell me that was a better basketball player than Lebron James?  With a straight face?

Yes!  At this point in LeBron's career he is.  And what does that have to do with the quote before where I said just because LeBron went to the playoffs deeper one year means he did worse.

Because I don't feel the need to beat around the bush on this one.  I want to get to the heart of the matter which is the claim that Pippen was a better basketball player than Lebron.

Ok.

[Mike-Dub]

Ok I'm going to bed.  TP's all around for a well spirited discussion.  You guys had the better arguments, I'm not going to lie about that, but I just don't feel LeBron at this point in his career is a better player than Pippen was for his whole career.  

Just because a players stats are better than another players doesn't mean he had more of an impact on the game and for his team.

[Dybdal]

I dont really think you can make a straight up comparison regarding the two players, i think you learn more in your first years in the league than you do in your last years.

Pippen was raised to be a second option to Jordan so his skillset reflected that and Lebron was raised to be everything at once witch makes him good at most things on the court while never really being regarded as being the absolut best in any catagory.

I allways looked at lebron like a cross-bread of Pippen and Barkley, great defender who could take it to the hoop against anyone and rebounded better than most and if need be he can take the outside shot.

I do think, what we are seeing is important for the how the NBA players are viewed in the furture, if Lebeon & Wade both goes down in history as two of the all time greats then i think the experiement they are doing worked but if Lebron goes down in history viewed as Pippen 2.0.. then i dont think we will see these kinds of unions 10 years from now.

[xmuscularghandix]

Pippen wins 6-0

[Who]

I saw Pippen play and I see Lebron play -- Lebron is a far better player than Scottie Pippen.

Yup

[Roy Hobbs]

I think Pippen is horrifically overrated, honestly.  I hear people talk as if he was the second best player of his era, and some people claim that if not for Jordan, he would have been seen as the best player in the NBA.  Nonsense.  Nobody was making those arguments when Pippen was actually playing. 

He's a seven time all-star with a career 16.1 points per game average.  He got to play a season without Jordan in his prime, and averaged 22/9/5 ppg that year; Lebron has been putting up better numbers since his second year in the league. Pippen was an excellent player, but never was close to the level Lebron is on.