How Does LeBron Match Up Against Scottie Pippen?

[Mike-Dub]

 I love them all except this one.



That one is a knock and disgrace to Scottie Pippen.  LeBron and Pippen never should be put in the same sentence together.

[indeedproceed]

I love them all except this one.



That one is a knock and disgrace to Scottie Pippen.  LeBron and Pippen never should be put in the same sentence together.

That's funny, because I was just going to say that it was my favorite shirt.

Pippen is kind of a divisive player in the NBA Fandom's mind. Some people say he's a top 50 player and one of the best defensive players of all time.

In his years without Jordan he showed himself to usually be a very capable leader and an extremely productive player.

But, he choked in the playoffs. Quit on his team against the Knicks at a crucial juncture. He couldn't get to the finals without Jordan, and he couldn't win on his own consistently. Before Jordan came back in 94-95, Pippen's Bulls were in danger of missing the playoffs.

Honestly I think the Pippen-LeBron comparison makes a ton of sense. I think LeBron is unquestionably the better player, but they share a lot of similarities.

[Mike-Dub]

I love them all except this one.



That one is a knock and disgrace to Scottie Pippen.  LeBron and Pippen never should be put in the same sentence together.

That's funny, because I was just going to say that it was my favorite shirt.

Pippen is kind of a divisive player in the NBA Fandom's mind. Some people say he's a top 50 player and one of the best defensive players of all time.

In his years without Jordan he showed himself to usually be a very capable leader and an extremely productive player.

But, he choked in the playoffs. Quit on his team against the Knicks at a crucial juncture. He couldn't get to the finals without Jordan, and he couldn't win on his own consistently. Before Jordan came back in 94-95, Pippen's Bulls were in danger of missing the playoffs.

Honestly I think the Pippen-LeBron comparison makes a ton of sense. I think LeBron is unquestionably the better player, but they share a lot of similarities.

Sorry I don't think LeBron is the better player at all.  He may be more talented, but he is not the better player.  LeBron should not be mentioned in the same sentence with Pippen at all. 

[indeedproceed]

I love them all except this one.



That one is a knock and disgrace to Scottie Pippen.  LeBron and Pippen never should be put in the same sentence together.

That's funny, because I was just going to say that it was my favorite shirt.

Pippen is kind of a divisive player in the NBA Fandom's mind. Some people say he's a top 50 player and one of the best defensive players of all time.

In his years without Jordan he showed himself to usually be a very capable leader and an extremely productive player.

But, he choked in the playoffs. Quit on his team against the Knicks at a crucial juncture. He couldn't get to the finals without Jordan, and he couldn't win on his own consistently. Before Jordan came back in 94-95, Pippen's Bulls were in danger of missing the playoffs.

Honestly I think the Pippen-LeBron comparison makes a ton of sense. I think LeBron is unquestionably the better player, but they share a lot of similarities.

Sorry I don't think LeBron is the better player at all.  He may be more talented, but he is not the better player.  LeBron should not be mentioned in the same sentence with Pippen at all. 

How are you defining 'player'?

[Mike-Dub]

I love them all except this one.



That one is a knock and disgrace to Scottie Pippen.  LeBron and Pippen never should be put in the same sentence together.

That's funny, because I was just going to say that it was my favorite shirt.

Pippen is kind of a divisive player in the NBA Fandom's mind. Some people say he's a top 50 player and one of the best defensive players of all time.

In his years without Jordan he showed himself to usually be a very capable leader and an extremely productive player.

But, he choked in the playoffs. Quit on his team against the Knicks at a crucial juncture. He couldn't get to the finals without Jordan, and he couldn't win on his own consistently. Before Jordan came back in 94-95, Pippen's Bulls were in danger of missing the playoffs.

Honestly I think the Pippen-LeBron comparison makes a ton of sense. I think LeBron is unquestionably the better player, but they share a lot of similarities.

Sorry I don't think LeBron is the better player at all.  He may be more talented, but he is not the better player.  LeBron should not be mentioned in the same sentence with Pippen at all. 

How are you defining 'player'?

How everyone defines player.  Right now I don't think LeBron is a better player than Pippen was and i don't think he will be.

[indeedproceed]

How everyone defines player.  Right now I don't think LeBron is a better player than Pippen was and i don't think he will be.

What do you mean, like as in 'team player', or as in 'overall basketball ability', or statistically, or what?

Pippen's no leader, and LeBron's no General Patton either. If you take those as givens, LeBron's running circles around him.

Well maybe not defense. But even then, they're extremely close.  

[indeedproceed]

Note: Split the topic, I think there is the possibility of a good debate here.

[xmuscularghandix]

I have a poster of Pippen on the wall, and will NEVER have a Lebron poster.

[Mike-Dub]

How everyone defines player.  Right now I don't think LeBron is a better player than Pippen was and i don't think he will be.

What do you mean, like as in 'team player', or as in 'overall basketball ability', or statistically, or what?

Pippen's no leader, and LeBron's no General Patton either. If you take those as givens, LeBron's running circles around him.

Well maybe not defense. But even then, they're extremely close.  

Pippen was a much better defender than LeBron is right now and stats aren't everything.

[indeedproceed]

How everyone defines player.  Right now I don't think LeBron is a better player than Pippen was and i don't think he will be.

What do you mean, like as in 'team player', or as in 'overall basketball ability', or statistically, or what?

Pippen's no leader, and LeBron's no General Patton either. If you take those as givens, LeBron's running circles around him.

Well maybe not defense. But even then, they're extremely close. 

Pippen was a much better defender than LeBron is right now and stats aren't everything.

Okay, I'm willing to concede that Pippen was a better defender after 7 years in the league.

Took LeBron 6 years to earn "All-NBA Defensive Team"

Took Pippen 4.

I'm not seeing your case here, especially if you look at what each player did when they were the lone star on a team. Pippen, amazing player. Maybe the best second fiddle of all time. LeBron, he's better.

EDIT: He might be a terrible second fiddle though, who knows. I'm just saying that LeBron is at this point in his career a better player.

[Mike-Dub]

How everyone defines player.  Right now I don't think LeBron is a better player than Pippen was and i don't think he will be.

What do you mean, like as in 'team player', or as in 'overall basketball ability', or statistically, or what?

Pippen's no leader, and LeBron's no General Patton either. If you take those as givens, LeBron's running circles around him.

Well maybe not defense. But even then, they're extremely close. 

Pippen was a much better defender than LeBron is right now and stats aren't everything.

Okay, I'm willing to concede that Pippen was a better defender after 7 years in the league.

Took LeBron 6 years to earn "All-NBA Defensive Team"

Took Pippen 4.

I'm not seeing your case here, especially if you look at what each player did when they were the lone star on a team. Pippen, amazing player. Maybe the best second fiddle of all time. LeBron, he's better.

EDIT: He might be a terrible second fiddle though, who knows. I'm just saying that LeBron is at this point in his career a better player.

Pippen had how many years as the star of the Bulls?  Two. 

LeBron has had how many years as the star of his team?  Seven.  Actually I'll say 5 starting the year before he made it to the Finals because that was the first time he had an ok team. 

You can't compare LeBron's run as the man on his team to Pippen's because LeBron had 3 more years.  Just like we can't compare LeBron's career as the definitive number 2 on his team like he is now because he hasn't played yet.  Therefore LeBron is behind Pippen in my eyes. 

[indeedproceed]

How everyone defines player.  Right now I don't think LeBron is a better player than Pippen was and i don't think he will be.

What do you mean, like as in 'team player', or as in 'overall basketball ability', or statistically, or what?

Pippen's no leader, and LeBron's no General Patton either. If you take those as givens, LeBron's running circles around him.

Well maybe not defense. But even then, they're extremely close. 

Pippen was a much better defender than LeBron is right now and stats aren't everything.

Okay, I'm willing to concede that Pippen was a better defender after 7 years in the league.

Took LeBron 6 years to earn "All-NBA Defensive Team"

Took Pippen 4.

I'm not seeing your case here, especially if you look at what each player did when they were the lone star on a team. Pippen, amazing player. Maybe the best second fiddle of all time. LeBron, he's better.

EDIT: He might be a terrible second fiddle though, who knows. I'm just saying that LeBron is at this point in his career a better player.

Pippen had how many years as the star of the Bulls?  Two. 

LeBron has had how many years as the star of his team?  Seven.  Actually I'll say 5 starting the year before he made it to the Finals because that was the first time he had an ok team.  You can't compare LeBron's run as the man on his team to Pippen's because LeBron had 3 more years.  Just like we can't compare LeBron's career as the definitive number 2 on his team like he is now because he hasn't played yet.  Therefore LeBron is behind Pippen in my eyes. 

Well, I disagree, but I guess its an opinion thing. When Pippen was "the man", he went to the conference finals the first year when he was 27 with a supporting cast of of a 28 year old Horace Grant (borderline HOF'er), and the fundemental core that had just won a chip with Jordan, plus Toni Kukoc who was a 2nd team all-rookie that season.

He quit on his team against the Knicks in those conference finals, absolutely refused to re-enter the game at the end of the 4th when Phil Jax drew up a play for Kukoc instead of Pippen.

The next year they were just above .500 until Jordan came back.

I think it's fair to compare the two as "the man"...Pippen was in the traditional prime of his ability.

I'm not knocking the guy's career, he's got better chops than 99% of NBA players in the history of the league. LeBron just has a lot more talent, and the places where Pippen excels, namely defense, which LeBron is now an elite player at, and being a supporting cast member, which LeBron has never done, it just doesn't overcome the areas where LeBron is far and away the better player.

[Mike-Dub]

How everyone defines player.  Right now I don't think LeBron is a better player than Pippen was and i don't think he will be.

What do you mean, like as in 'team player', or as in 'overall basketball ability', or statistically, or what?

Pippen's no leader, and LeBron's no General Patton either. If you take those as givens, LeBron's running circles around him.

Well maybe not defense. But even then, they're extremely close. 

Pippen was a much better defender than LeBron is right now and stats aren't everything.

Okay, I'm willing to concede that Pippen was a better defender after 7 years in the league.

Took LeBron 6 years to earn "All-NBA Defensive Team"

Took Pippen 4.

I'm not seeing your case here, especially if you look at what each player did when they were the lone star on a team. Pippen, amazing player. Maybe the best second fiddle of all time. LeBron, he's better.

EDIT: He might be a terrible second fiddle though, who knows. I'm just saying that LeBron is at this point in his career a better player.

Pippen had how many years as the star of the Bulls?  Two. 

LeBron has had how many years as the star of his team?  Seven.  Actually I'll say 5 starting the year before he made it to the Finals because that was the first time he had an ok team.  You can't compare LeBron's run as the man on his team to Pippen's because LeBron had 3 more years.  Just like we can't compare LeBron's career as the definitive number 2 on his team like he is now because he hasn't played yet.  Therefore LeBron is behind Pippen in my eyes. 

Well, I disagree, but I guess its an opinion thing. When Pippen was "the man", he went to the conference finals the first year when he was 27 with a supporting cast of of a 28 year old Horace Grant (borderline HOF'er), and the fundemental core that had just won a chip with Jordan, plus Toni Kukoc who was a 2nd team all-rookie that season.

He quit on his team against the Knicks in those conference finals, absolutely refused to re-enter the game at the end of the 4th when Phil Jax drew up a play for Kukoc instead of Pippen.

The next year they were just above .500 until Jordan came back.

I think it's fair to compare the two as "the man"...Pippen was in the traditional prime of his ability.

I'm not knocking the guy's career, he's got better chops than 99% of NBA players in the history of the league. LeBron just has a lot more talent, and the places where Pippen excels, namely defense, which LeBron is now an elite player at, and being a supporting cast member, which LeBron has never done, it just doesn't overcome the areas where LeBron is far and away the better player.

I don't think it is completely fair to compare Pippen and LeBron as "the man" when LeBron had many more years being the man on his team. 

[Mike-Dub]

Also Pippens stats are much lower because he played with Mike for most of his career.  That is going to bring your stats down because he had the ball most of the time in his hands and was the number one option. 

[indeedproceed]

Also Pippens stats are much lower because he played with Mike for most of his career.  That is going to bring your stats down because he had the ball most of the time in his hands and was the number one option. 

Well, then look at the time Jordan wasn't there. 22-25 yr old LeBron dominates Pippen.

I mean, are you saying Pippen would be a better #1 option than LeBron?

As far as 'roles' go, I think Pippen played second fiddle better than LeBron played lead guitar, but that's why elite lead guitar players are so hard to come by...it's pretty difficult to do. (is that too much of a mixed metaphor?)

But that's what I'm saying. At this point in his career, if he keeps up his elite level of play, I don't see how he's not better than Pippen.