Author Topic: Jefferson to Jazz Deal is Done  (Read 24000 times)

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Re: Jefferson to Jazz is done
« Reply #75 on: July 14, 2010, 04:16:29 PM »

Offline FallGuy

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You got any kind of substantiation of that charge re: Jefferson's attitude? Haven't heard that before.
After the Garnett trade, Pierce went on the record to say that one of the problems of that pitiful 20-win team was that some guys just cared about their 16 points per game.

Make of this what you will, but it doesn't take too much to do the math. Especially given that anyone who's watched Jefferson play should be well aware that the guy is a black hole on offense and never looks for anything else but his own shot.

Pretty big leap of faith from the available evidence to your conclusion.

A non-specified player on a terrible Celtics team three years ago was called out in vague terms by the team's star player. Even if it was Jefferson, the comments weren't particularly [dang]ing. And remember the star player in question sat out a bunch of games that year with an "injury." And of course, all we have to do is look at the star player in question to see how guys can mature over time. Pierce was once one of the snotty problem kids in the league.

So, while I'm unsure whether there were any huge problems with Jefferson's attitude in the first place, without any evidence suggesting they still existed in the Minnesota years, I'm hard pressed to assume he'll be a problem for Jerry Sloan.

Re: Jefferson to Jazz is done
« Reply #76 on: July 14, 2010, 04:28:06 PM »

Offline kozlodoev

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I'd like to see that substantiation, too. Or is it just another Celtics Blog chapter in the hyperbolic glorification of what I'll call Danny's Kids today?

I STRONGLY suspect the latter.
Sadly, I don't have the habit of keeping three-year old newspaper clippings. However, I have no problem believing that Al Jefferson simply doesn't care about wins and losses, given that he was never able to lead a team to anything significant, and that he didn't seem particularly bothered by this at any point in his career.

As I said, take it for what it's worth. Only time will show how good of a fit he'll be with the Jazz, I am just not willing to discount the possibility of him losing his starting spot to Millsap by the all star break.
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Re: Jefferson to Jazz is done
« Reply #77 on: July 14, 2010, 04:36:09 PM »

Offline Snakehead

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I'd like to see that substantiation, too. Or is it just another Celtics Blog chapter in the hyperbolic glorification of what I'll call Danny's Kids today?

I STRONGLY suspect the latter.
Sadly, I don't have the habit of keeping three-year old newspaper clippings. However, I have no problem believing that Al Jefferson simply doesn't care about wins and losses, given that he was never able to lead a team to anything significant, and that he didn't seem particularly bothered by this at any point in his career.

As I said, take it for what it's worth. Only time will show how good of a fit he'll be with the Jazz, I am just not willing to discount the possibility of him losing his starting spot to Millsap by the all star break.

Common sense is useful.  I cannot for the life of me understand statements like the one in bold above, especially about bigs on bad teams.  So you think Al is no good because he couldn't lead a mediocre Celtics team and a downright awful Timberwolves team to an NBA title?  People throw around the same bad raps for guys like Bosh, who likewise plays on an awful Raptors team.

Big men do not dominate the ball, and thus cannot carry a team without good guard players. They just can't handle the ball enough.

Guess what?  Guys who put up 20-10 like Al and shoot 60% are actually a good thing to have on your team.  Who would've thought!?
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Re: Jefferson to Jazz Deal is Done
« Reply #78 on: August 17, 2010, 01:35:10 PM »

Offline Overrated

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Big Al rockin' his new uni.


Re: Jefferson to Jazz is done
« Reply #79 on: August 17, 2010, 01:38:36 PM »

Offline Roy H.

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So you think Al is no good because he couldn't lead a mediocre Celtics team and a downright awful Timberwolves team to an NBA title? 

True...  Pierce and KG, respectively, couldn't make those two teams into winners, either.  I can't fault Big Al, although I will say that I would have liked to see a bigger commitment to defense from him.

Only a very small handful of guys can basically carry a poor team into the playoffs singlehandedly.  Those guys are uniformly in the Hall of Fame.


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Re: Jefferson to Jazz is done
« Reply #80 on: August 17, 2010, 01:40:13 PM »

Offline Fafnir

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Guess what?  Guys who put up 20-10 like Al and shoot 60% are actually a good thing to have on your team.  Who would've thought!?
He's never shot 60% or anywhere near it.

Re: Jefferson to Jazz is done
« Reply #81 on: August 17, 2010, 01:43:52 PM »

Offline Fafnir

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Guess what?  Guys who put up 20-10 like Al and shoot 60% are actually a good thing to have on your team.  Who would've thought!?
He's never shot 60% or anywhere near it.
July 14th? Yikes talk about a late reply.

I do like the picture of him, hopefully he can stay healthy and help the Jazz smack the Lakers around a bit better than Boozer could.

Re: Jefferson to Jazz is done
« Reply #82 on: August 17, 2010, 02:15:14 PM »

Offline Snakehead

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Guess what?  Guys who put up 20-10 like Al and shoot 60% are actually a good thing to have on your team.  Who would've thought!?
He's never shot 60% or anywhere near it.

Sry, hyperbole by me but still a 20-10 guy and shoots a good percentage and is effecient.  And commands a double team in the post.  Not many of that type of back to the basket bigs anymore, I still think he is unique and someone you'd love to have on your team.


So you think Al is no good because he couldn't lead a mediocre Celtics team and a downright awful Timberwolves team to an NBA title?

True...  Pierce and KG, respectively, couldn't make those two teams into winners, either.  I can't fault Big Al, although I will say that I would have liked to see a bigger commitment to defense from him.

Only a very small handful of guys can basically carry a poor team into the playoffs singlehandedly.  Those guys are uniformly in the Hall of Fame.

I agree on Al's D, he could be a better defender, but him being better on D doesn't turn those teams around, and we had a pretty poor defensive culture before KG arrived.  It's too bad we lost Al in that trade because he would of benefitted in a huge way from KG's mentoring... but oh well.  I think he will also gain a ton now from Deron.

Back to the bit about single players that can lead bad teams to success, they are perimeter players almost always.  Iverson and LeBron for example with the teams they got to the Finals.  In Minny, I think KG had some of the best years any player has ever had, he contributed in so many areas, and even he couldn't pull it off.



Anyways, I'm excited for Al and I really love the new Jazz uniforms.  They are fantastic, not only the return to the better "Note" logo, but also the uniform design in general.  I really like the stripes, on the side and around the arm and neck openings.  Huge improvement.
« Last Edit: August 17, 2010, 02:29:40 PM by Snakehead »
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Re: Jefferson to Jazz is done
« Reply #83 on: August 17, 2010, 02:29:27 PM »

Offline BballTim

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Guess what?  Guys who put up 20-10 like Al and shoot 60% are actually a good thing to have on your team.  Who would've thought!?
He's never shot 60% or anywhere near it.

  If he's healthy he'll probably shoot the highest percentage of his career. He's rarely played on a team with a good enough offensive player to take any of the pressure off of him.

Re: Jefferson to Jazz is done
« Reply #84 on: August 17, 2010, 02:36:19 PM »

Offline Snakehead

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Guess what?  Guys who put up 20-10 like Al and shoot 60% are actually a good thing to have on your team.  Who would've thought!?
He's never shot 60% or anywhere near it.

  If he's healthy he'll probably shoot the highest percentage of his career. He's rarely played on a team with a good enough offensive player to take any of the pressure off of him.

Or a PG who can set him up in general like Deron, on top of taking pressure off of him as a scorer.  I think he will have the best year of his career.  Utah fans probably are having some Stockton/Malone dreams for this duo.  It'll be fun to watch them play together.
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Re: Jefferson to Jazz Deal is Done
« Reply #85 on: August 17, 2010, 02:38:53 PM »

Offline Fafnir

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Al Jefferson isn't that efficient of a scorer though. His TS% is just .535, not great at all.

Re: Jefferson to Jazz Deal is Done
« Reply #86 on: August 17, 2010, 03:07:08 PM »

Offline pablohoney

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Al Jefferson is a 50% shooter from the post.  That means he is no better than a 33% 3 point chucker like Antoine Walker.   What is worse is that a 3 point chucker can get easy shots in flow of an offense and at PF can spread floor. 

You have to work the ball into Al which means a passer working hard to get ball into post, 3 guys standing around, seconds off shot clock etc.

When you consider that against serious competition in big games (which have been few and far between in Boston and Minny) his ability to score in post drops dramatically..... his utility is not that great.

He would be a great 6th man but unfortunately he is paid like a star.   Factor in his short size, his p--- poor defense, his injury history, his off court drinking and you have an overrated stat stuffer who contributes little to winning basketball at NBA level.

Re: Jefferson to Jazz Deal is Done
« Reply #87 on: August 17, 2010, 03:13:05 PM »

Offline hpantazo

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Al Jefferson is a 50% shooter from the post.  That means he is no better than a 33% 3 point chucker like Antoine Walker.   What is worse is that a 3 point chucker can get easy shots in flow of an offense and at PF can spread floor. 

You have to work the ball into Al which means a passer working hard to get ball into post, 3 guys standing around, seconds off shot clock etc.

When you consider that against serious competition in big games (which have been few and far between in Boston and Minny) his ability to score in post drops dramatically..... his utility is not that great.

He would be a great 6th man but unfortunately he is paid like a star.   Factor in his short size, his [pee] poor defense, his injury history, his off court drinking and you have an overrated stat stuffer who contributes little to winning basketball at NBA level.

really? I'm curious, how do you rate Kevin McHale then?

Re: Jefferson to Jazz Deal is Done
« Reply #88 on: August 17, 2010, 03:16:04 PM »

Offline Fafnir

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Al Jefferson is a 50% shooter from the post.  That means he is no better than a 33% 3 point chucker like Antoine Walker.   What is worse is that a 3 point chucker can get easy shots in flow of an offense and at PF can spread floor. 

You have to work the ball into Al which means a passer working hard to get ball into post, 3 guys standing around, seconds off shot clock etc.

When you consider that against serious competition in big games (which have been few and far between in Boston and Minny) his ability to score in post drops dramatically..... his utility is not that great.

He would be a great 6th man but unfortunately he is paid like a star.   Factor in his short size, his [pee] poor defense, his injury history, his off court drinking and you have an overrated stat stuffer who contributes little to winning basketball at NBA level.

really? I'm curious, how do you rate Kevin McHale then?
Kevin McHale career TS% is over .600. That's a world of difference between him and Big Al.

Re: Jefferson to Jazz Deal is Done
« Reply #89 on: August 17, 2010, 03:20:15 PM »

Offline Snakehead

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Al Jefferson is a 50% shooter from the post.  That means he is no better than a 33% 3 point chucker like Antoine Walker.   What is worse is that a 3 point chucker can get easy shots in flow of an offense and at PF can spread floor.  

You have to work the ball into Al which means a passer working hard to get ball into post, 3 guys standing around, seconds off shot clock etc.

When you consider that against serious competition in big games (which have been few and far between in Boston and Minny) his ability to score in post drops dramatically..... his utility is not that great.

He would be a great 6th man but unfortunately he is paid like a star.   Factor in his short size, his [pee] poor defense, his injury history, his off court drinking and you have an overrated stat stuffer who contributes little to winning basketball at NBA level.

Jeez, someone clearly has no appreciation for the post game.  Those 3 point shooters aren't as open if you don't work it into the post, most of your good open 3 point shots are either in transition or from kick outs.  Players who demand double teams in the post are extremely valuable to shooters and an offense in general.

And passers have to "work hard to get it into the post"?  Really?  You just set up an angle and pass it in.  I learned this in CYO ball.  Not complex.

Nevermind the pick and roll that a good big gives you, which opens up offense for both guards and bigs and everyone on the floor based on how a defense reacts...

If you want quick shots that take no time off the clock and bigs that shoot 3's only, perhaps you should go become a Pheonix fan this year.  You will love Hedo and their chucking offense that never will sniff a title.  Or go bring Antoine back.. he worked out well right?  ::)

Shots in the post become harder in big games, but notice in the Finals Game 7 was decided in the post and on the boards.  Al Jefferson is a  starting talent, he just needs talent around him, and he could certainly improve his D.  On offense he is more than capable.


Al Jefferson is a 50% shooter from the post.  That means he is no better than a 33% 3 point chucker like Antoine Walker.   What is worse is that a 3 point chucker can get easy shots in flow of an offense and at PF can spread floor.  

You have to work the ball into Al which means a passer working hard to get ball into post, 3 guys standing around, seconds off shot clock etc.

When you consider that against serious competition in big games (which have been few and far between in Boston and Minny) his ability to score in post drops dramatically..... his utility is not that great.

He would be a great 6th man but unfortunately he is paid like a star.   Factor in his short size, his [pee] poor defense, his injury history, his off court drinking and you have an overrated stat stuffer who contributes little to winning basketball at NBA level.

really? I'm curious, how do you rate Kevin McHale then?
Kevin McHale career TS% is over .600. That's a world of difference between him and Big Al.


If you read the post he was responding to you would see he was only saying there is value to an inside player.  Pablo apparently doesn't understand why a post game is important to a basetkabll team.  He wasn't saying Al was as good as McHale, only that they are both post scorers and are valuable.

And last time I checked, there was a world of difference between McHale and almost everyone who ever played PF, so that's not much of a slight on Al.  He also has time to develop still.  I'm sure he wishes he played with players of the caliber of Bird, Parish, and DJ.  I'm sure he'd shoot a better percentage.
« Last Edit: August 17, 2010, 03:28:35 PM by Snakehead »
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