What was Cleveland's role in James Leaving?

[GreenFaith1819]

Interesting Thread....the one question in my mind is Amare Stoudemire - wasn't he very close to signing with CLE last season? But the thing that kept him away was the fact that CLE would not guarantee him a 5th year or something to that effect?

Would Lebron have stayed if he had Amare vice Jamison?

[Cman]

I disagree. This guy has played with a lot of good players now. I'm tired of people acting like JJ Hickson is a cancer or something. It's a bench people. It's not supposed to have stars.

This guy has played with many players now that either are or were or weren't too far removed from all star seasons.

Shaq
Jamison
ilgauskas
Boozer
Ben Wallace
Mo Williams
varajoa (a legit 6th man of year type guy)

How many does he need or is he entitled to? Didn't they have the best record in the league this year? If you have that stop crying about not enough talent

TP.

And allow me to look into my crystal ball to a year from now.  Wade will be injured, people will remember that Bosh isn't really a super-star, and the media will ponder why the Heat couldn't make it to the Finals (yep, that's my prediction, no Finals appearance for the Heat next year).  There'll be articles about how "LeBron took a paycut to help the Heat win a championship, now the Heat owe it to him to surround him with quality players."  In other words, the excuses will continue.  Heck, Stern might just have to give LeBron an honorary championship ring, sort of like how universities give out honorary doctorates to notable people (eg: Yale University gave an honorary doctorate to George Bush in 2001).

[nba is the worst]

Interesting Thread....the one question in my mind is Amare Stoudemire - wasn't he very close to signing with CLE last season? But the thing that kept him away was the fact that CLE would not guarantee him a 5th year or something to that effect?

Would Lebron have stayed if he had Amare vice Jamison?

I thought it was because LeQuit didn't want to give up Hickson.

I agree the Cavs mismanaged the situation by giving him too much control - but "if" he doesn't tank the Celtics series they "would have" won a title...

Speculation for sure - but Mike Brown's poor coaching was also to blame. Anyone who couldn't see that following the gameplan that worked vs the C's all year (play Varejao and Hickson, and push the pace constantly) just doesn't get it.

(That goes for SVG as well)...

[Bankshot]

Interesting Thread....the one question in my mind is Amare Stoudemire - wasn't he very close to signing with CLE last season? But the thing that kept him away was the fact that CLE would not guarantee him a 5th year or something to that effect?

Would Lebron have stayed if he had Amare vice Jamison?

I thought it was because LeQuit didn't want to give up Hickson.

I agree the Cavs mismanaged the situation by giving him too much control - but "if" he doesn't tank the Celtics series they "would have" won a title...

Speculation for sure - but Mike Brown's poor coaching was also to blame. Anyone who couldn't see that following the gameplan that worked vs the C's all year (play Varejao and Hickson, and push the pace constantly) just doesn't get it.

(That goes for SVG as well)...

I thought I heard that it was Lebron that didn't want to give up Hickson, but who knows.

[Thruthelookingglass]

Yup. Both sides are to blame in this breakup. Cleveland threw roster bandaid after roster bandaid onto this team, killing their flexibility.

But look at where they were -- they surprised even themselves by landing in the Finals against the Spurs.  They figured they were a move or two away -- and they probably would have repeated as EC champs if Boston hadn't been re-made with Allen and KG. 

Hindsight is 20-20.  I didn't agree with some of their moves but then again they didn't ask me.  Cleveland thought they were close to the top and added what they thought would help right away to win a championship.  I don't see much blame in that.  Actually, in hindsight they may have been right to force the issue before their window closed with LeBron heading out of town.

[Moranis]

Why do people keep saying the Cavs didn't offer Hickson?  It was the Suns that backed out of the trade at the last minute looking for better offers before ultimately deciding to keep Amare and go for the title.  Kerr has pretty much confirmed this over the summer since he left the GM job.

http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/2701273/cleveland_cavaliers_make_serious_trade.html

The Amare Stoudemire trade with Cleveland is very close. Phoenix would send Amare Stoudemire to Cleveland for J.J. Hickson and Zydrunas Ilgauskas if the Suns will agree to the trade. The offer has already been made by the Cleveland Cavaliers, and now Phoenix has to decide if they want to make the trade or continue fishing for other offers.

[Roy Hobbs]

Theoretically Bird, Magic or MJ could have... but Bird had McHale and Parish.  Magic had Kareem and Worthy... MJ had severely underrated Scottie Pippen.  Bron had scrubs.   

I'm surprised that so many Celtics fans make the above argument about Larry.  The year before he got there, the Celtics won 29 games.  The year he arrived -- without Parish or McHale -- the Celts won 61 games and won their division.  The next season, with McHale seeing 17 minutes per game in the playoffs, Bird led the team to a title.  He didn't need the Big Three to thrive.

[dexter11]

As a counter argument, whiel I cna understand Cleveland ( Dan Gilbert ) being upset with LeBron leaving, the Cavs basically had 7 years to put a competant team around LeBron.

They had one of the greatest prospects in NBA history coming onto their team. They could have completely stripped the team from day one to build the ideal team around James.

Had they gone to the lottery for three staright years, made good choices and maybe got 2 studs and another solid guy or even just one stud and two other solid pieces.

Then, just added free agants and vets around that nucleus, by years 5, 6 and 7 they would have been competing like MJ just before the Bulls took off.

Now that James showed his true colors I think had the Cavs stripped the whole roster and would have started rebuilding from zero, James would have been gone in 2006. Because he signed a contract extension in 2006.

I think a complete and total lack of management is also to be noted in James decision to leave.

I doubt very much he would have left if he was "the king in Cleveland" and they were strong, legitimate for title contention each year, and...he had a couple legite wing men.

He might have still laughed with Wade and bosh over beers about playing together, but his end response would have been, get your own guns cause the Cavs are coming for you.

So I understand why he left. Didn't think he did it very well, but also think the Cavs management had a role in it too.
 

The Cavs only mistake is letting James believe he's bigger than the league. They let his people in, they shopped everybody in for him. James just had to point who he wants and they got it.
In fact I think the only person who could keep Mike Brown as coach was James himself. Everybody else saw how bad he was.
So from Gilbert's point of view he did everything an owner could. Even let the player in control of the team which is almost unprecedented. Only Jordan could do that in Washington. But he had an amazing carrier behind him. And what did he get in turn. James just left him out in the cold. He gave up game 5, I agree with Gilbert on that. The team has lost an estimated 50% of it's value. That must be hundreds of dollars. Now that letter doesn't look that angry.

[housecall]

Theoretically Bird, Magic or MJ could have... but Bird had McHale and Parish.  Magic had Kareem and Worthy... MJ had severely underrated Scottie Pippen.  Bron had scrubs.    

I'm surprised that so many Celtics fans make the above argument about Larry.  The year before he got there, the Celtics won 29 games.  The year he arrived -- without Parish or McHale -- the Celts won 61 games and won their division.  The next season, with McHale seeing 17 minutes per game in the playoffs, Bird led the team to a title.  He didn't need the Big Three to thrive.

But Larry did have Tiny(Nate)Archibald(all star),and Cedric Maxwell(boardline all star avg.19pts./9.9boards).

[moiso]

Theoretically Bird, Magic or MJ could have... but Bird had McHale and Parish.  Magic had Kareem and Worthy... MJ had severely underrated Scottie Pippen.  Bron had scrubs.   

I'm surprised that so many Celtics fans make the above argument about Larry.  The year before he got there, the Celtics won 29 games.  The year he arrived -- without Parish or McHale -- the Celts won 61 games and won their division.  The next season, with McHale seeing 17 minutes per game in the playoffs, Bird led the team to a title.  He didn't need the Big Three to thrive.

TP.  Some players are born to win championships.  Bird, Magic, Kobe, Jordan, and Duncan would have most likely won a title or two without ridiculously talented teammates around them.  The thing I don't like about the Lebron move is that now we will never really know if he belongs on that list of players.

[Eja117]

When's the last time in history a team has won with a player the caliber of Mo Williams as their second best player?

It's hard to tell if Lebron had a huge say in who they signed or traded for, but even if he did, that is ownership/management's fault for giving him too much control when it is their job to evaluate players and fits.

Tim Duncan did it two or three times.

Hakeem did it with Robert Horry and Sam Cassell before Clyde Drexler showed up the next year.

Manu, David Robinson, and Tony Parker are were better players than Mo Williams by a wide margin. (at the respective points when TD won the title)

For his first title David Robinson was an old man one year removed from a season blanking knee injury and he didn't have Manu and I don't think he had Parker.

For his nex title he had a 19 year old Parker.

Duncan didn't have anything Lebron didn't have for his first two titles.

[Bossco]

Well if the rumor is true maybe the actions of his Cleveland teammate DWest and his mom caused him to bolt.

As far as the Cavs go - they had the best record in the NBA the last two seasons. It's hard to think that he wasn't on a good team based on that fact alone. The Cavs have been to the Eastern conference finals for five straight years reaching the finals once. They have been knocking on the door, but just couldn't get it done. I don't blame Cleveland at all.

What I do blame them for is not having a plan B. Why were they so sure that he was going to stay? Gilbert is a smart business man but he got caught with his pants down. That was HIS fault. He should never have put all his balls in one basket.

[screwedupmaniac]

Well if the rumor is true maybe the actions of his Cleveland teammate DWest and his mom caused him to bolt.

As far as the Cavs go - they had the best record in the NBA the last two seasons. It's hard to think that he wasn't on a good team based on that fact alone. The Cavs have been to the Eastern conference finals for five straight years reaching the finals once. They have been knocking on the door, but just couldn't get it done. I don't blame Cleveland at all.

What I do blame them for is not having a plan B. Why were they so sure that he was going to stay? Gilbert is a smart business man but he got caught with his pants down. That was HIS fault. He should never have put all his balls in one basket.

Both years that we beat them, it was in the Eastern Conference semi-finals. Truth be told, LeBron knows that the only chance he has of getting by our big three is by making an even bigger 3 in Miami.

[Moranis]

When's the last time in history a team has won with a player the caliber of Mo Williams as their second best player?

It's hard to tell if Lebron had a huge say in who they signed or traded for, but even if he did, that is ownership/management's fault for giving him too much control when it is their job to evaluate players and fits.

Tim Duncan did it two or three times.

Hakeem did it with Robert Horry and Sam Cassell before Clyde Drexler showed up the next year.

Manu, David Robinson, and Tony Parker are were better players than Mo Williams by a wide margin. (at the respective points when TD won the title)

For his first title David Robinson was an old man one year removed from a season blanking knee injury and he didn't have Manu and I don't think he had Parker.

For his nex title he had a 19 year old Parker.

Duncan didn't have anything Lebron didn't have for his first two titles.

Lebron James has played with a player that has averaged a double double while playing with him.  when did that happen?

[soap07]

This guy has played with many players now that either are or were or weren't too far removed from all star seasons.

Shaq
Jamison
ilgauskas
Boozer
Ben Wallace
Mo Williams
varajoa (a legit 6th man of year type guy)

How many does he need or is he entitled to? Didn't they have the best record in the league this year? If you have that stop crying about not enough talent

Uh, Shaq was a liability on the court for the Cavaliers. Ilgauskus and Ben Wallace? Seriously? Ben Wallace has had a fork stuck in his back since his time in Chicago. Anderson Varejao could not be the 6th man on a championship team. Mo Williams, coincidentally, wasn't an All-Star until he started playing with LeBron.

LeBron has never played with a legitimate supporting cast in his career.