Ray wants to see where the big free agents land before making a decision

[Meadowlark_Scal]

hahahahah, okay...you got me there...true. Varajo would be a big help..perk's value didn't appear until he shut howard down...and the lakers....gasol..not really bynum, because bynum moves too much for perks IQ.....but he did GREAT D on guys he could find...! Until kobe took him out....don't get me going on that please..i am almost over it......

[LooseCannon]

I sincerely doubt that the Cavs would give up JJ Hickson, given their refusal to part with him before the trade deadline.  I want to say that a refusal to give up Hickson may have helped scuttle a proposed trade for Amare Stoudemire.

[the_Bird]

I sincerely doubt that the Cavs would give up JJ Hickson, given their refusal to part with him before the trade deadline.  I want to say that a refusal to give up Hickson may have helped scuttle a proposed trade for Amare Stoudemire.

Cavs would probably counter by offering Boobie Gibson.

Thing is...  who's got the leverage?  If Cleveland's pitch to landing LBJ really IS "we'll get you Ray Allen" (which I doubt), what are they going to do? 

There are only three ways Ray Allen finds himself a Cleveland Cavalier in the fall:

1. Cleveland finds a sucker among those who are under the cap to absorb some of their egregious contracts.

2. Ray Allen, unconscionably, agrees to play for the MLE

3. The CELTICS agree to a sign-and-trade.  Danny's under no obligation, Ray Allen can want to play for Cleveland all he wants, but the Cavs ultimately need to get the C's to agree to a S&T or its irrelevant.

[falconj]

if Cavs promise LBJ that they'll bring him Ray to hope LBJ to sign with Cavs

I'll Push

[Ray+baby and 2013 second  for AV+Hickson+Moon+ 2013 1st]



take it or leave it

we are happy to have Ray

but Cavs can't afford to lose LBJ

[CoachBo]

Not interested in Delonte or Gibson.

Cleveland can either do our terms if they want Ray, or they can do without him.

[I Lack Maturity]

if Cavs promise LBJ that they'll bring him Ray to hope LBJ to sign with Cavs

I'll Push

[Ray+baby and 2013 second  for AV+Hickson+Moon+ 2013 1st]



take it or leave it

we are happy to have Ray

but Cavs can't afford to lose LBJ

I agree with you. That offer is so out of the question i think Chris Grant will just hang up on Ainge, but who cares. Screw the Cavs.

[LooseCannon]

Thing is...  who's got the leverage?  If Cleveland's pitch to landing LBJ really IS "we'll get you Ray Allen" (which I doubt), what are they going to do? 

Imagine if Ray gets an outrageous offer from the Knicks or Nets and a four-year deal from the Cavs if they can work out a sign-and-trade, while the Celtics stand firm on three years for about a million less per year than the Knicks/Nets.  Ray goes to Ainge and says he is willing to facilitate a S&T to the Cavs or sign with Boston for a discount if they go four years, otherwise he's going to take the big money from a non-contender.

The Cavs refuse to part with Hickson and won't trade Varejao without getting a rotation big in return.  Should Ainge up the offer to Ray Allen, just let him walk, or look to make a sign and trade, perhaps by bringing in a third team with better trade assets who might have a use for some Cleveland guards?

[Kuberski33]

Ray can be had if someone is willing to overpay and I think that someone will step up and do that.  It's not the end of the world as long as they can replace him with someone decent. 

[I Lack Maturity]

Ray can be had if someone is willing to overpay and I think that someone will step up and do that.  It's not the end of the world as long as they can replace him with someone decent. 

The Celtics are going to miss Ray a ton if he leaves. You cant just go get another first ballot hall of famer. Ray is still one of the best shooters in the league and if the Celtics are going to try and win another title with Pierce and KG then Ray is a must. Get it done Danny!

[Who]

Sign-n-trade to Cleveland for Mo Williams and Jamario Moon.

I like Jamario, but Williams does nothing for me... The only consistent thing about his postseason play is that he consistently disappears.

Williams was a nice sixth man in Milwaukee a few years ago ... no, yeah, it wouldn't work out well. Don't like that small backcourt (Rondo + Mo).

And certainly not worth Ray Allen.

[LooseCannon]

And certainly not worth Ray Allen.

You usually don't get equal value in a S&T.  It's just a question of whether or not something is better than nothing.

[Who]

And certainly not worth Ray Allen.

You usually don't get equal value in a S&T.  It's just a question of whether or not something is better than nothing.

Hmm ... better than nothing. I think Moon is better than nothing but I'm not sure Mo Williams' contract is. I think the Celtics would be better off keeping their cap flexibility. Acquiring Mo limits their options too much for my taste.

---------------------------------------

I'm not worried about Ray Allen leaving. I think the Celtics can keep him easily enough.

So the only reason to consent to a sign and trade is if the team is getting equal or superior value in return. Otherwise no point.

[the_Bird]

And certainly not worth Ray Allen.

You usually don't get equal value in a S&T.  It's just a question of whether or not something is better than nothing.

It all depends on how desperate Cleveland is (and how much Ray Allen wants to play with LBJ, if he re-signs).  S&T's are often effected to get a guy a little bit more money; in a Ray-to-Cleveland scenario, it'd be the difference between something like 3/$35M and 3/$16M (MLE deal).  

I can't see any third teams that would be likely to step up and take one of Cleveland's shooting guards back, not without Cleveland being forced to absorb an equally-bad deal.  Mo Williams can still be an effective player, but probably in the Jet Terry, sixth-man kind of mode.  Undersized shooting guards can be great off the bench, defensive weaknesses are limited by playing against mostly reserves and since the guys you're running with are also often less talented, a shoot-first inclination is less of a liability.  

But, those kinds of players don't generally go for $9M per.

[CoachBo]

No Sideshow, no Ray Ray Cleveland. Move along now.

[JoeyRamone]

It certainly seems as if Allen will be looking to get the most money that he can. I would love for it to be with the Celtics, but how much will they be willing to go? Any S&T with Cleveland would have to include Hickson/Varejao. There's absolutely no reason for Ainge to take back Cleveland's garbage without getting something of value in return. The way to maximize Allen's trade value is to do a S&T with a team that has cap room in order to get a trade exception...