If Ray and Paul leave ...

[celtsfan84]

As much as anyone I would like to see the Celtics make a minor bench reload (of the Brad Miller, Mike Miller variety) and make another run at the championship.

But if Ray Allen and Paul Pierce should get unreasonably high offers (possible), who can the Celtics get back in a sign-and-trade?

Dallas would probably want Ray and be willing to pay him, but what would they give back?

[Chris]

Well, I much prefer that they just resign Ray and Paul, but if not, here is my scenario:

If this were to happen, here is what I would do:

Sign and trade Ray for Deng.

Sign and trade Pierce for Travis Outlaw (sign and traded), and a large trade exception.

Sign Mike Miller as the starting SG with the MLE. 

Resign Tony Allen.

Use the Trade Exception and a second round pick to get Nick Collison.

Sign up Erden.

Here is my lineup once Perk returns in January:

Rondo, Bradley
Miller, Allen
Deng, Outlaw
KG, Davis
Perk, Collison, Erden

Not exactly a world beater, but a decent team with room to grow. 

[bobdelt]

Sign and Trades are extremely rare, don't count on one happening. If they were easy to do, all these teams wouldn't have gone to great lengths to clear cap space.



I would let everyone walk and go after Amare. He's a gamble, but he's a franchise type player in the right situation, and the only one we'd have a shot at.

[Chris]

Sign and Trades are extremely rare, don't count on one happening. If they were easy to do, all these teams wouldn't have gone to great lengths to clear cap space.



I would let everyone walk and go after Amare. He's a gamble, but he's a franchise type player in the right situation, and the only one we'd have a shot at.

Eh, they aren't that rare.  In fact, I think you will find they happen a lot with higher salaried players.  It is almost like collusion by GMs to beat the cap, and with a few million changing hands, a GM can often be convinced to turn a straight FA signing into a sign and trade, if it doesn't cost them anything they want to keep.

Really though, this was close to a best case scenario (assuming Pierce walks)...and that is depressing.

[wiley]

Well, I much prefer that they just resign Ray and Paul, but if not, here is my scenario:

If this were to happen, here is what I would do:

Sign and trade Ray for Deng.

Sign and trade Pierce for Travis Outlaw (sign and traded), and a large trade exception.

Sign Mike Miller as the starting SG with the MLE. 

Resign Tony Allen.

Use the Trade Exception and a second round pick to get Nick Collison.

Sign up Erden.

Here is my lineup once Perk returns in January:

Rondo, Bradley
Miller, Allen
Deng, Outlaw
KG, Davis
Perk, Collison, Erden

Not exactly a world beater, but a decent team with room to grow. 

Does these mean we won't be getting anything for Sheed?  Is that possiblity being overblown?

[Chris]

Well, I much prefer that they just resign Ray and Paul, but if not, here is my scenario:

If this were to happen, here is what I would do:

Sign and trade Ray for Deng.

Sign and trade Pierce for Travis Outlaw (sign and traded), and a large trade exception.

Sign Mike Miller as the starting SG with the MLE. 

Resign Tony Allen.

Use the Trade Exception and a second round pick to get Nick Collison.

Sign up Erden.

Here is my lineup once Perk returns in January:

Rondo, Bradley
Miller, Allen
Deng, Outlaw
KG, Davis
Perk, Collison, Erden

Not exactly a world beater, but a decent team with room to grow. 

Does these mean we won't be getting anything for Sheed?  Is that possiblity being overblown?

I have no clue (and no one else seems to either) whether Sheed has officially retired yet, and if his contract could be traded.  So I didn't want to get into that.

[the_Bird]

If Pierce walks, there's no point in re-signing Ray Allen.  Bringing in Mike Miller or Brad Miller or Shaq or T-Mac, none of that's going to matter without Pierce in the lead.  At that point, it's time to hit the reset button.

So....   do you explore trading KG?  Let's say the Knicks manage to procure the services of LeBron and another (non-PF) max free agent.  Do you send KG to NY for Eddy Curry's expiring deal (and whatever other filler they could find).

Celtics could theoretically have Rondo and...  well, Rondo and the new kid on the books for next summer, and no one else.  

Sucks that there won't be any basketball in '11 - '12; that might be the worst possible summer to have cap space.

[Mencius]

If Sheed retires, and we renounced everybody and we somehow managed to package Perk and Baby for a trade exception, we'd have only Rondo and Garnett on the books.  They make 9M and 18.8M respectively, for a total of 27.8M

Isn't the cap supposed to be something like 56M?  We'd have somewhere in the vicinity of 28M to use on FA's.

Washington is desperate to unload Arenas.  Trade Garnett for Arenas (who makes 17,730M and is only 28 years old giving us another million).  We'd then have 29M to use on FA's.

We'd have only Rondo and Arenas on the books, plus 29M to spend.

That's a pretty interesting scenario.  Improbable but interesting.  Pierce opting out gives Danny a unique opportunity to have a huge head start on the rebuild.  We could offer a max to one guy and still have enough to get another really good guy.

I actually think that Danny relishes the opportunity to rebuild.  I think he knows we squeezed every last drop out of our old core and that climbing that mountain with the same group this year was never going to happen.  This is exciting.

[the_Bird]

I hope and pray, desperately, that the rebuild does not involve Gilbert Arenas. 

[wiley]

Agree.  KG for Arenas?

disagre with two posts prior.....

we have a big 4 now......losing one of the 4 is not an automatic re-set.

It would make perfect sense to re-sign Ray to a 2 year deal if Paul leaves, perhaps especially if Paul leaves.  He's way cheaper, he's in great shape and his specialty (shooting) will likely last a couple more years.  

And it makes sense cap-wise.

[guava_wrench]

If Pierce walks, there's no point in re-signing Ray Allen.  Bringing in Mike Miller or Brad Miller or Shaq or T-Mac, none of that's going to matter without Pierce in the lead.  At that point, it's time to hit the reset button.

So....   do you explore trading KG?  Let's say the Knicks manage to procure the services of LeBron and another (non-PF) max free agent.  Do you send KG to NY for Eddy Curry's expiring deal (and whatever other filler they could find).

Celtics could theoretically have Rondo and...  well, Rondo and the new kid on the books for next summer, and no one else.  

Sucks that there won't be any basketball in '11 - '12; that might be the worst possible summer to have cap space.

Well, the best time to have low payroll is during a lockout. The team doesn't waste money on players who aren't playing. That is a major competitive advantage.

Also, it isn't as if the cap space would disappear.

[the_Bird]

If Pierce walks, there's no point in re-signing Ray Allen.  Bringing in Mike Miller or Brad Miller or Shaq or T-Mac, none of that's going to matter without Pierce in the lead.  At that point, it's time to hit the reset button.

So....   do you explore trading KG?  Let's say the Knicks manage to procure the services of LeBron and another (non-PF) max free agent.  Do you send KG to NY for Eddy Curry's expiring deal (and whatever other filler they could find).

Celtics could theoretically have Rondo and...  well, Rondo and the new kid on the books for next summer, and no one else.  

Sucks that there won't be any basketball in '11 - '12; that might be the worst possible summer to have cap space.

Well, the best time to have low payroll is during a lockout. The team doesn't waste money on players who aren't playing. That is a major competitive advantage.

Also, it isn't as if the cap space would disappear.

Well, you don't waste money, if there's a lockout the players aren't getting paid.

[wdleehi]

Sign and trade Pierce for Melo.


Sign and trade Ray and Wallace to NY for Lee and Curry.



Figure out a good trade for KG.

[BballTim]

  If Paul and Ray leave I'd look at moving KG and blowing it up, but the circumstances would have to be right. Say Bosh goes to Chicago and Amare goes to NY or NJ. If Paul's leaving, trade KG for Beasley. That would leave Miami with Wade and KG, so they could sign PP or JJ and be contenders, and have KG's expiring contract next year. Sign David Lee and sign Rudy Gay to an offer sheet. Trade Sheed and Baby for Monta Ellis. That gives you Rondo/Ellis/Gay/Beasley/Lee. Just for fun, re-sign Scal for the vet min.

  Ok, I almost threw up in my mouth while I was typing that, but I'd still look into trading KG if Paul and Ray leave, unless they could get far enough under to get something like Lee and Gay in free agency (or S&T of Ray to NY). Then, again, Sheed and Baby for Ellis. Rondo/Ellis/Gay/KG/Lee/Perk, with TA, Nate, Bradley off the bench. And, of course, Scal...

  Blech.

[bobdelt]

Well the Bulls, Knicks, Net, Heat, and Clippers all think they're pretty rare. Only Dallas thinks they can pull one of.

If it wasn't rare, there would be a lot more teams going after these top tier FA's than just the ones with cap space.

Wouldnt DA be in Cleveland tomorrow if he thought he could pull of a S+T? Judging by his absence he knows he can't