Author Topic: Not enough Nasty  (Read 4258 times)

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Not enough Nasty
« on: June 20, 2010, 01:26:50 AM »

Offline ScoobyDoo

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I mentioned this in an earlier post this season and didn't get much response but I still really believe it. This year's team simply didn't have enough "nasty" on it.

In 2008, we had: Perkins, PJ, Powe and Posey
That is one helluva lot of nastiness on one team.
You mix in KG, Pierce and baby with that? Tough, tough...

In 2009, we had: Perkins and Powe
KG, Pierce and baby mixed, fairly tough, but toughness level dropped off from 2008 levels.

In 2010, we had: Perkins....

Rasheed, Baby, KG and Pierce are big and they are tough, but they are not nasty in the sense of Perk, Powe, PJ or Posey. They are simply tough players. Perk, Powe, Posey and PJ are smashmouth players. There is a difference.

I reallywanted us to sign a Jamaal Mgloire or Kurt Thomas type this year in addition to Rasheed.

The best way to really make this Boston Three party era still shine liikem Gold is to put up #18 next year and do it by beating the Lakers in Boston.

However, in order for us to do it, along with signing some obvious skilled players, we need to incorporate a real good dose of nastiness under the boards to go with Perkins.

If not, I don't think we win another one.

During game seven, a Kurt Thmoas type would have layed some serious smack on Gasol, Odom and Kobe. Not just hard fouls. PJ or Posery hard fouls where you get no tech but the opposing player remembers it very well.

When we were getting out rebounded in the first, Kurt Thomas would have layed some big hits under the boards and cleared out alot of space. It would have chnaged that dynamic.

And it gives your team a nasty edge that compliments the high flying talent of Pierce, Ray, Rondo and even KG to an extent, perfectly.   

Re: Not enough Nasty
« Reply #1 on: June 20, 2010, 09:44:22 AM »

Offline Who

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I don't think a lack of toughness was an issue.

A lack of go-to scorers offensively? Sure
A lack of rebounding? Yes
A lack of defense? Not really. Sheed's defense in the postseason sealed up some regular season flaws.
A lack of passing? Nah, at times, but not overall.
A lack of toughness? I don't see it.

Re: Not enough Nasty
« Reply #2 on: June 20, 2010, 10:06:32 AM »

Offline chelsearules

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just play the game right no need for nasty...nasty would have gotten our players suspended in these finals for sure

Re: Not enough Nasty
« Reply #3 on: June 20, 2010, 10:39:08 AM »

Offline moiso

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I agreed with this during the regular season when the team was playing lazily, but I don't think that was the case in the playoffs.  Although we could have used an athletic bruiser, I think the problems were mostly age related.  The big 3 had it some nights, and didn't have it other nights- a clear sign of age.  Maybe if Doc played the bench more in the final game we wouldn't have run out of gas and given up a 13pt lead in the second half.  Those guys have no business playing 40minutes per night, even in a game 7 of the finals.

Re: Not enough Nasty
« Reply #4 on: June 20, 2010, 11:00:59 AM »

Offline wdleehi

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Lack of hitting open shots killed the team in the Finals. 


Two games, the defense was there for the Celtics to win and they shot themselves out of the game.



What the Celtics needed was a player that could both shoot and defend.  Their bench had players that could only do one of those things.

Re: Not enough Nasty
« Reply #5 on: June 20, 2010, 11:54:40 AM »

Offline PosImpos

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We were missing a star who can bail us out at the end of games when the offense stagnates.

We also missed a big guy who plants himself in the lane and generates second chance opportunities and prevents them for the other team.

The Celtics lost not because of their defense, or their attitude (both of which were phenomenal) but because their offense was just average, and prone to grinding to a halt at the worst times.

Defense is very important for winning championships, but you have to have good offense as well.  The Lakers earned home court advantage during the regular season and then were able to take advantage of it to win a hard fought finals because both their defense and their offense were very good (though not great).  The Lakers were a more balanced team, and they also happened to be younger.  That the Celtics still took the Lakers down to the very last moments of Game 7 is a testament to their tenacity and great team play.
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Re: Not enough Nasty
« Reply #6 on: June 20, 2010, 12:33:20 PM »

Offline housecall

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The defense is top flight but the offense needs some overhauling.
« Last Edit: June 20, 2010, 12:42:21 PM by housecall »

Re: Not enough Nasty
« Reply #7 on: June 20, 2010, 02:29:12 PM »

Offline moiso

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When the starters are playing top flight defense for 40+ minutes, their offense declines at the end of games.  A little more rest and maybe some of those shots would have dropped.

Re: Not enough Nasty
« Reply #8 on: June 20, 2010, 04:19:46 PM »

Offline housecall

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When the starters are playing top flight defense for 40+ minutes, their offense declines at the end of games.  A little more rest and maybe some of those shots would have dropped.
That means you are aganist adding some offense to the bench next season?I think thats an area that was needed from day one of the season.The bench didn't have enough fire power to add to leads on a consistent basis.

Re: Not enough Nasty
« Reply #9 on: June 20, 2010, 04:48:48 PM »

Offline ScoobyDoo

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I definately agree with all the posts saying we need to add some offensive fire power to this squad, someone who can light it up. I wouldn't mind a Mike Miller or Kyle Korver type as an assasin off the bench for sure.

I wouldn't mind re-signing Nate Robinson for that reason either. Let him get comfortable for a full season and give him the green light to let it rip offensively as well off the bench.

But to be honest, I am suprised that people disagree with us needing to add some real nastiness to the front line.

I am not talking about dirty players, I am talking about smash mouth players. There is a big difference between the two.

KG, Pierce, Ray, Rondo, Baby, etc. These guys are more skilled players, we just need to add a Mike Miller or  kyle Korver for some more fire power. Obviously, if there was some way, however remote, that we could sign a Joe Johnson type somehow, that would answer alot of offensive issue for us.

But the bottom line is our bigs played like chics on the boards and it cost us the title. They are tenacious and play great ,hard defense. But outside of Perkins, nasty tough they are not.

A Kurt Thomas type wouldn have layed some hits on Howard and sent some messages. He also would have introduced himself to Gasol, no way Gasol would get 18 boards with Perk and or a Kurt Thomas on him. NO WAY.

Do you think that for one minute, guys like PJ or Posey or Powe would have stood around and had it shoved up their back side on the boards like our guys did in the first quarter and pretty much for that entire game seven.

No way. NO WAY.

That would've have turned into a major brawl under the boards after about two minutes of that BS we saw in the first quarter of game seven.

NO WAY those type of players would have stood around for that crap. Bodies would have been flying. You need more than just Perkins who's willing to get dirty for the ball.

I am not saying our guys arent't tough and I am not saying I want dirty players. This isn't an indictment of our current bigs, they are admirable for their own particular skills.

Just like Perkins, having one more Kurt Thomas type who really likes to mix it up wouldn't have been huge for us.

We do need to add offense, but we need to add toughness as well, without question.

We need to compliment the skill sets of KG, Pierce, Ray, Rondo, Baby,e tc. with some real hard hitting guys who revel in clearing the lane and getting "into it" undeer the glass.

It was a hallmark of our 2008 and it was a major reason we were so dominant, we controlled the paint with a very balanced combination of skill and level 10 toughness with Perkins, PJ, Powe and Posey, sprinkled in with some KG and Pierce.     

Re: Not enough Nasty
« Reply #10 on: June 20, 2010, 04:53:05 PM »

Offline mgent

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Lack of hitting open shots killed the team in the Finals. 


Two games, the defense was there for the Celtics to win and they shot themselves out of the game.



What the Celtics needed was a player that could both shoot and defend.  Their bench had players that could only do one of those things.
Seriously.  Posey is the guy we missed the most.
Philly:

Anderson Varejao    Tiago Splitter    Matt Bonner
David West    Kenyon Martin    Brad Miller
Andre Iguodala    Josh Childress    Marquis Daniels
Dwyane Wade    Leandro Barbosa
Kirk Hinrich    Toney Douglas   + the legendary Kevin McHale

Re: Not enough Nasty
« Reply #11 on: June 20, 2010, 05:45:27 PM »

Offline wdleehi

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Lack of hitting open shots killed the team in the Finals. 


Two games, the defense was there for the Celtics to win and they shot themselves out of the game.



What the Celtics needed was a player that could both shoot and defend.  Their bench had players that could only do one of those things.
Seriously.  Posey is the guy we missed the most.


Except that Posey has been missing from the NBA since then as well.  He is in decline since he left.

Re: Not enough Nasty
« Reply #12 on: June 20, 2010, 05:51:03 PM »

Offline guava_wrench

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just play the game right no need for nasty...nasty would have gotten our players suspended in these finals for sure
We have plenty of nasty. Has anyone in this playoffs equaled the level of nasty we had is smacking around Dwight Howard?

Re: Not enough Nasty
« Reply #13 on: June 20, 2010, 06:14:09 PM »

Offline Onslaught

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I'm not sure you can have a "nasty" team in the modern NBA. Or as a fan of 80's and early 90's "nasty" teams I just don't see the NBA letting that stuff happen.
Peace through Tyranny

Re: Not enough Nasty
« Reply #14 on: June 20, 2010, 06:16:34 PM »

Offline mgent

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Lack of hitting open shots killed the team in the Finals. 


Two games, the defense was there for the Celtics to win and they shot themselves out of the game.



What the Celtics needed was a player that could both shoot and defend.  Their bench had players that could only do one of those things.
Seriously.  Posey is the guy we missed the most.


Except that Posey has been missing from the NBA since then as well.  He is in decline since he left.
Yeah that's too bad.  In 08 he was one of the best 6th men in league.
Philly:

Anderson Varejao    Tiago Splitter    Matt Bonner
David West    Kenyon Martin    Brad Miller
Andre Iguodala    Josh Childress    Marquis Daniels
Dwyane Wade    Leandro Barbosa
Kirk Hinrich    Toney Douglas   + the legendary Kevin McHale