Author Topic: 21 - 6  (Read 15876 times)

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21 - 6
« on: June 18, 2010, 10:42:19 PM »

Offline tenn_smoothie

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everyone's talking about the 37 - 17 free throw disparity from game 7 .........

actually, when i went back and looked, the real blatant screw job was in the 4th quarter - lakers 21 ft / celtics 6 ft after the Celtics had led the entire game including three different double-digit leads.

21 - 6

just having a very hard time dealing with that.

it's one thing to lose 'cause the other team is better, or you get out-coached, or you give the game away due to your own careless mistakes or mental lapses, but to have the league and its officials blatantly take the win away like that in the 4th quarter is unacceptable.

i was real upset with the Celtics for their stagnant offense, but looking back now, i realized how difficult it is to run any offense when the defense is allowed to hold, grab, push, shove, hand-check with impunity - both on and off the ball.

what else do you need to know than that Rondo has to take a dozen stitches because of an Artest shot to the head in game 6 that was never called.

actually woke up this morning thinking - was that a nightmare, did the Celts lose game 7 ?
this one is worse than '85 & '87, as bad as they still are.
« Last Edit: June 19, 2010, 01:37:08 PM by tenn_smoothie »
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Re: 21 to 6 free throws in the 4th
« Reply #1 on: June 18, 2010, 10:54:30 PM »

Offline twinbree

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TP tenn_smoothie (I like your screen name BTW) I feel your pain. That's the part of the loss that hurts the most. Because despite getting pounded on the boards and with our starting C out we were still in the game early in the 4th. We made a couple more field goals than they did and with a little more parity in the FTs who knows how it could have ended? I just don't like to have what-ifs like that marring an already ugly loss.

When we lost to Orlando I was perfectly fine. They outplayed us, took advantage in Game 6 when we faltered and close at out at home. They deserved to win, I respected their effort, got over the loss quickly and rooted for them in ECF and the finals. I had no such feelings after yesterday's loss and a lot more ill-will towards the refs and league than I did last year.
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Re: 21 to 6 free throws in the 4th
« Reply #2 on: June 18, 2010, 10:56:32 PM »

Offline LB3533

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It seemed like every chance the refs got to make a call against us in the 4th quarter they took and blew the whistle.

Meanwhile, the let the Lakers play free and physical.

Basically in the 4th, if we touch fouled the Lakers it was called, and on the flip side there was no consistency.

Re: 21 to 6 free throws in the 4th
« Reply #3 on: June 18, 2010, 11:14:51 PM »

Offline SamuelAdams

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I am with ya brother.  :(

Re: 21 to 6 free throws in the 4th
« Reply #4 on: June 18, 2010, 11:29:15 PM »

Offline PosImpos

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Well, it sucks but part of the game is being able to get to the line. Say what you want about the refs, but the Lakers were much, much better at getting to the line than the Celtics; that was true throughout the series, and it mattered most when you'd expect it to matter - at the end of a tight, elimination game on the Laker's home court.
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Re: 21 to 6 free throws in the 4th
« Reply #5 on: June 18, 2010, 11:30:10 PM »

Offline ManchesterCelticsFan

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This series/last game definitely feels like a screw-job. Too bad the players themselves can't speak up for this injustice for fear of not working in any capacity of the NBA again.

Now watch the NBA float the Lakers into a 3-Peat next year just like they did against the Kings in 2002 just so we can have the Kobe/MJ comparisons, high-roller celebs can pay $55,000+ for a ticket, sell 3-Peat Merchandise, have Lakers (including Minneapolis) catch up in championships, and all that other money making schemes which the NBA wants. Maybe PJ can convince the Refs that Ron Artest will punch everyone out if they don't win and at least the NBA won't be hurting their image by awarding the Lakers.  ::)

Re: 21 to 6 free throws in the 4th
« Reply #6 on: June 18, 2010, 11:39:17 PM »

Offline Rashi

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This series/last game definitely feels like a screw-job. Too bad the players themselves can't speak up for this injustice for fear of not working in any capacity of the NBA again.

Now watch the NBA float the Lakers into a 3-Peat next year just like they did against the Kings in 2002 just so we can have the Kobe/MJ comparisons, high-roller celebs can pay $55,000+ for a ticket, sell 3-Peat Merchandise, have Lakers (including Minneapolis) catch up in championships, and all that other money making schemes which the NBA wants. Maybe PJ can convince the Refs that Ron Artest will punch everyone out if they don't win and at least the NBA won't be hurting their image by awarding the Lakers.  ::)


Just the thought of Lakers possibly 3-peating is sickening. Seriously hoping that some tweaking to our roster makes us bounce back bigger...and if not then at least someone in the west is finally able to stop the Lakers from going to the Finals for the 4th consecutive year.

Re: 21 to 6 free throws in the 4th
« Reply #7 on: June 19, 2010, 12:07:25 AM »

Offline BBS

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 I would be willing to deal with a tough loss to the Lakers but instead I am dealing with a screw job by the refs. Someone really needs to explain why a bad call by a ref in Soccer or in Baseball is talked about for days on end or so it seemed in the Perfect game call and the Soccer one only happend today so it will get play till the U.S. TEAM plays again atleast.
 The local coverage guys ie. radio tv and Espn are all over this Soccer one just like the Baseball one but they havent made a peep about the 21 free throw advantage for the Lakers in the 4th quarter of a Game 7. It almost no play from them at all except I did see Skip Bayless argue that the refs did cost us a chance at winning the game buy not calling the Gasol foul on Rondo durring that rebound that Kobe drove to the hoop and ran over Sheed on. But around here if you try to mention it your treated like a nut job who can't view a game without green colored glasses on. I am sorry but I watch the same game and for 3 quarters the Celtics were allowed to play one way and when the 4th rolled around they wernt allowed to play that way anymore buy the refs. Were the Celtics tired sure was the offence stagnit at times yes but when your life line is takein away from you you will not be as effective as you would be with it.

 Also whats worse is when anyone who is on this side of the arguement brings up the freethrow dispairity they get called a kook or a conspericy nut, But my girlfriend who was following the game on nba.com at work calls me durring the 4th quarter and says whats going on every time this thing refreshes it says the Celtics commit another foul then today when total straingers talked about last nights game to me and they all mention the Freethrow dispairity in the fourth quarter it makes the ones who think this game and series was ref'd fairly look like the real kooks.
 
 

Re: 21 to 6 free throws in the 4th
« Reply #8 on: June 19, 2010, 12:25:30 AM »

Offline MaxwellSmart86

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I watched it unfold---dumbfounded too---in the 4th Quarter, The Lakers were Allowed to foul---we were not.

Pau Gasol totally holds down Rondo with his right arm-whilst getting yet another Fantastic Offensive rebound---passes to Kobe...Layup Plus the foul!...Wonderful.

Re: 21 to 6 free throws in the 4th
« Reply #9 on: June 19, 2010, 12:38:41 AM »

Offline SamuelAdams

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TP  BBS.

Re: 21 to 6 free throws in the 4th
« Reply #10 on: June 19, 2010, 12:53:12 AM »

Offline GreenFaith1819

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Wow - I had no idea that the discrepancy was this much. It just seemed a lot closer to me than what it was.

Re: 21 to 6 free throws in the 4th
« Reply #11 on: June 19, 2010, 01:12:02 AM »

Offline get_banners

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2 were intentional (the foul on sasha), so it was really 19-6, which is still ridiculous because LA didn't earn that big of an advantage. i can live with it if they got fouled (they did on most of the calls, actually), and we didn't, but the latter part didn't happen. and no, nobody will talk about this, because of ridiculous media self-censorship. this is a consequence of stern's dictatorship...players and coaches are scared to say anything because they'll get fined and possibly screwed by refs later, and stern won't do anything about it. if the combatants don't complain, the media won't bother, either.

Re: 21 to 6 free throws in the 4th
« Reply #12 on: June 19, 2010, 02:31:30 AM »

Offline luckthefakers

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I think that so many fans here want to stay quiet about this because it comes across as whining, as if admitting there was a screw job makes you a tinfoil hat conspiracy theorist.  But it needs to be said, and said again and again.  What happened last night was a travesty.

Let us try to be objective when analyzing this.  The first, obvious issue was from the outset, with the ref assignments.  There are 12 refs doing the Finals.  With 3 per game, for 7 games there are 21 total assignments.  This means that each ref should be doing 1 or 2 games.  And yet Joey Crawford, known as "Laker Joey" in many circles (for his impeccable record when they are the home team), gets the call for game 7, his 3rd in the series (also having done key games 1 and 5). 

Perhaps the league, if questioned about this assignment, would say "he's the best ref, so we want him in the best games".  We will never know because no one will question the assignment for fear of fine, suspension, or media boycott.  Why is the NBA so secretive about these matters?  Why isn't there complete transparency over a process whose results are often so controversial and so key to the outcome of games?  At the very least this would assuage the claims of conspiracy. 

What we do know is that Joey is one of the most controversial refs, known for player bias, a short temper, and being heavily involved in the game.  He was even suspended by the league, something that is unheard of for a ref.  And yet he gets the call over 9 of the other "best" refs, 4 of whom had only done a single game in the series.  At the very least, the league had to know that this would result in a allegations of a fix.

Onto the game.  The singlemost important thing a ref crew can do for a game is to call it consistently.  Pick a style-- tight or loose-- and stick with it all game, equally for both teams.  You'd think that the "best ref" in the NBA would do this for game 7, but not only did he fail to, he failed in a quite blatant and egregious manner.  This was one of the most imbalanced games in NBA history.  The first 32 minutes were called extremely loosely, while the last 16 extremely tightly.  And why?  One can only fathom to cater to a particular team's strength, and another's weakness.

Make no bones about it: this game was won at the FT line.  I keep hearing this stuff about how if the Celtics rebounded this would have won.  Well, the Celtics weren't rebounding all game and were actually at their peak discrepancy in the 3rd when they had a 13 point lead.  They blew that lead not by failing to rebound or by missing shots, but by being victimized by the Lakers repeated trips to the line.  Trips to the line at a historic rate.  It would be one thing if the Lakers hit big shots to win the game, but they didn't.  They missed everything.  They were simply bailed out time and time again.  People say, "rebounds win games".  Well, you know what wins games even better?  Buckets.  And the Lakers didn't have to make any to steal this one.  That is a Edited.  Profanity and masked profanity are against forum rules and may result in discipline.ing crime.

Here is a post from another board that breaks down some 4th quarter calls:

11:42: Gasol shoots a turnaround jumpshot and makes it. Should not have been an "and 1," Davis went vertical with arms up to contest.

11:07: Borderline loose ball foul on the Celtics. Hadn't been called the rest of the game.

8:45: Kobe Bryant shoots three free throws. Ray Allen got his hand out of the way in time. Again, borderline call the refs hadn't been calling all game.

7:28: Artest runs across the paint, jumps into Pierce and shoots a jumpshot. Gets the and-1 and shouldn't have. Pierce had his ground and contested with arms up.

6:48: Wallace called for a loose ball foul. Again, this was just two people fighting for the rebound. Shouldn't have been called. Celtics in the penalty so Lakers shoot free throws.

5:56: Davis gets called for a loose ball foul. Again, borderline. Celtics in the penalty so Kobe shoots free throws.

3:10: Garnett takes a pass inside from Wallace and slams it. Gasol fouled Garnett on the shot, but no and-1.

2:19: Pierce called for a blocking foul. He had his feet set when Gasol ran into him. Should have been a charge.

1:30: Gasol makes layup, should have been a travel.

0:27: Gasol offensive rebound after he mauls Rondo for it. If you're going to call borderline loose ball fouls on the Celtics this quarter, then this should have been called. Gasol used his right hand to push Rondo to the floor while getting the rebound with his left.

You can probably make an argument either way for most of those calls, and the Celtics had one sketchy call themselves (an Artest foul on Pierce).  The point is, the abundance of calls went to the Lakers, and most were ticky-tack in a game that hadn't been called that way.  If the "best ref" in the NBA can't maintain consistency for 48 minutes, the league has a serious problem.

***

So the question is, why?  Is this just incompetence or conspiracy?  It's hard to argue that the league didn't get what it wanted.  If the Lakers lose this game, as they were on pace to do before the ticky-tack calls started happening, the league loses
1) another potential dynasty
2) the greatest coach of all time
3) Kobe's legacy / heir to MJ

Now 2010/11 has a compelling storyline, the fourth road to threepeat (and possibly unprecedented modern era fourpeat the following season).  It all looks pretty good on paper.

You can argue, yeah, but the Spurs have won titles, 2005 was Spurs/Pistons for crying out loud!  Wasn't LBJ supposed to be in the Finals last year and this year?  So clearly there isn't a complete fix.  I think only the true tinfoil hat wearers believe that. 

But it doesn't make you crazy to wonder why they'd call up ol controversial Joey for game 7, either. 

Re: 21 to 6 free throws in the 4th
« Reply #13 on: June 19, 2010, 06:27:21 AM »

Offline Levis107

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This has been my biggest problem and the reason it's been so hard to get over this loss the last 24 hours.  I felt that the Celtics were being screwed as it was happening, not just after the fact when I saw the numbers.  The officials began calling touch fouls on the Celtics, totally different than the first 3 quarters and the Lakers were able to get away with a lot on their ends.  3 calls in particular that were really devastating to the Celtics,  the no up and down travel call on Gasol on the putback to make it a 6 point lead late in the game,  the Artest And 1 when he initiated all the contact on a set Pierce, and the biggest one to me was the Kobe Bryant three pointer where he jumped into Ray Allen with little to no contact and was awarded 3 free throws that either tied the game or gave the Lakers their first lead of the 2nd half.  The Celtics were not able to recover from those calls.  I don't care what anybody says, 19 free throws is a lot for one team in a quarter, especially the 4th quarter of a Game 7 for the championship.  And the way that game was being played and being called through the first 3 quarters makes that number even more ridiculous.  The Celtics were already in the penalty at the 6:49 mark of the 4th. It's not right.

It bothers me that nobody on our side has mentioned this and it makes me wonder if Doc and company are even aware of the free throw discrepancy in the 4th quarter.  The Lakers shot 37 FTs the entire game, and 21 of them came in one period.  You know if it was the Celtics that shot that many, Phil Jackson would have said something about it and it would have gotten play in the media.

Re: 21 to 6 free throws in the 4th
« Reply #14 on: June 19, 2010, 09:21:51 AM »

Offline Meadowlark_Scal

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This post is right on and exactly how i feel about it. A lot of people here and everywhere are of the mind that if it is so absurd, it cannot be real. The whole series with the lakers had been that way. Artest, what was his job...? First game, take out PP, entagle his arms and bring him down wrestling style......The hard knee into Ray allen, if you haven't ever played real bball, please do not comment on this....setting a pic, and putting your knee out are two diff things, a pic, even a dirty one, you extend your shoulders, your arms, maybe your butt...but to put a knee out......that is a series move to injure, a bad injury...the "PC" world isn't really set up to deal with this type on incident, the retaliation elbow to rondows face, artest did it because rondo pushed him the game before, although he might have done it anyway, and the last one, the missing view from under the hoop where kobe, used his leg to displace perks, while he was coming down, did anyone else watch the game, did you see that view from UNDER THE HOOP, they ONLY showed it 2x, then, the replay was from a camera over at the lakers bench area, only showing bynums upper body and perk, kobe is almost out of the camera...! The forst view was totally on kobe, you could see his face, his eyes looking right to perks leg, and doing it. it is a known move to get rebounders out of the way. That is why rebounders learn fast, get position, look up, jump, get ball, look down, land...don't look down, then you'll land on a well placed foot, by some loser...kobe did one better, but he is a pro..! Kobe knew the key was to get perk out, give gasol free rein, open the lane, and it worked..!