21 - 6

[tenn_smoothie]

This post is right on and exactly how i feel about it. A lot of people here and everywhere are of the mind that if it is so absurd, it cannot be real. The whole series with the lakers had been that way. Artest, what was his job...? First game, take out PP, entagle his arms and bring him down wrestling style......The hard knee into Ray allen, if you haven't ever played real bball, please do not comment on this....setting a pic, and putting your knee out are two diff things, a pic, even a dirty one, you extend your shoulders, your arms, maybe your butt...but to put a knee out......that is a series move to injure, a bad injury...the "PC" world isn't really set up to deal with this type on incident, the retaliation elbow to rondows face, artest did it because rondo pushed him the game before, although he might have done it anyway, and the last one, the missing view from under the hoop where kobe, used his leg to displace perks, while he was coming down, did anyone else watch the game, did you see that view from UNDER THE HOOP, they ONLY showed it 2x, then, the replay was from a camera over at the lakers bench area, only showing bynums upper body and perk, kobe is almost out of the camera...! The forst view was totally on kobe, you could see his face, his eyes looking right to perks leg, and doing it. it is a known move to get rebounders out of the way. That is why rebounders learn fast, get position, look up, jump, get ball, look down, land...don't look down, then you'll land on a well placed foot, by some loser...kobe did one better, but he is a pro..! Kobe knew the key was to get perk out, give gasol free rein, open the lane, and it worked..!

thanks ML for summing up the dirty plays by the lakers - it's one thing to play rough in order to physically intimidate your opponents - it's another to intentionally go after injuries.

kobe bryant is the biggest low-life in the league today - for several reasons - he intentionally grabbed and threw off perk's foundation before bynum came flying down off the top rope on that play, no question.

and for you laker fans who will immediately bring up the mchale takedown of kurt rambis way back in '84, the purpose, the motive behind that play was to stop the lakers from shooting layups and celebrating in the middle of the game. in a recent interview, cedric maxwell talked about the celtics practice between games 3 & 4 that year when the celtics decided there would be no more layups. mchale wasn't  trying in any way to hurt rambis. he was trying to slow the lakers down and stop the on-court celebrations that had angered larry bird so much during the game 3 blowout. btw, all descriptions of that practice i have ever heard have bordered on the sublime. even pat riley described over-hearing thru the locked doors of the forum arena the cursing among the angry celtic players.

guess they had to get their strategy straightened out for game 4. apparently it was a good practice session.

[kfdodgerfan]

I can take almost every post in this thread and apply it to game 2 in regards to the Lakers getting screwed. And the Lakers would've won that game and closed it out in 6.

[GreenFaith1819]

I can take almost every post in this thread and apply it to game 2 in regards to the Lakers getting screwed. And the Lakers would've won that game and closed it out in 6.

And...also this was Game Two of the Ref Job on KG - making Gasol out to be:

"The Untouchable One."

I guess there are multiple ways to look at this, huh?

[Jon Niednagel]

I can take almost every post in this thread and apply it to game 2 in regards to the Lakers getting screwed. And the Lakers would've won that game and closed it out in 6.

that is just silly. Go back and look at the free throw differential in game two before letting hot gas escape. Plus, if the refs had called a half-way fair game in game three, the Celtics would have closed things out in five games. Please go home troll.

[chelsearules]

I can take almost every post in this thread and apply it to game 2 in regards to the Lakers getting screwed. And the Lakers would've won that game and closed it out in 6.

must feel good to shoot almost 2x as many free throws when getting screwed huh... for the rest of the nba that's a good night from the refs

[luckthefakers]

In my first post this forum I pointed out that Laker fans are by far the least informed fans in the NBA (and probably of all major sports) and they are doing nothing to dissuade me by their posts here.  How they can compare game #2, a game where they had a lopsided FT advantage despite less paint possessions, to game #7 just shows you either 1) bias or 2) stupidity.  The problem is that these fans have been coddled by the league for so long that they've come to believe that if Kobe or Gasol are ever in foul trouble they are getting screwed, despite the fact that they (along with Artest) are among the more hacky defenders in the league.  BTW, Gasol wasn't in foul trouble ONCE in this series despite playing 40+ mpg and staying in the paint the whole time.  

The Lakers now have been gifted critical victories in the exact same fashion-- FTs in the face of inept shooting-- on three separate occasions-- '00 (WCF), '02 (WCF), and '10 (Finals). 20 FTs is decent for a game; consider that on all three occasions they got this in the 4th quarter alone!  In fact, I can't think of a single game outside of these three that this has ever happened in any quarter.  And Joey or Dick were reffing each of the games.

It's a ****n joke is what it is.  But this observation will be blown into the wind because casual, clueless fans like the Laker homer above are the new market for the NBA.  They want MJ and dynasties and as far as they are concerned they have it now, even if we know it's manufactured.

[GreenFaith1819]

In my first post this forum I pointed out that Laker fans are by far the least informed fans in the NBA (and probably of all major sports) and they are doing nothing to dissuade me by their posts here.  How they can compare game #2, a game where they had a lopsided FT advantage despite less paint possessions, to game #7 just shows you either 1) bias or 2) stupidity.  The problem is that these fans have been coddled by the league for so long that they've come to believe that if Kobe or Gasol are ever in foul trouble they are getting screwed, despite the fact that they (along with Artest) are among the more hacky defenders in the league.  BTW, Gasol wasn't in foul trouble ONCE in this series despite playing 40+ mpg and staying in the paint the whole time.  

The Lakers now have been gifted critical victories in the exact same fashion-- FTs in the face of inept shooting-- on three separate occasions-- '00 (WCF), '02 (WCF), and '10 (Finals). 20 FTs is decent for a game; consider that on all three occasions they got this in the 4th quarter alone!  In fact, I can't think of a single game outside of these three that this has ever happened in any quarter.  And Joey or Dick were reffing each of the games.

It's a ****n joke is what it is.  But this observation will be blown into the wind because casual, clueless fans like the Laker homer above are the new market for the NBA.  They want MJ and dynasties and as far as they are concerned they have it now, even if we know it's manufactured.

And it's so funny about the MJ mention here - when, after seeing how "Well" kobe performed in that Game 7 a few nights ago.

Kobe had better buy Ron Artest a house or something.....

Michael Jordan Never went 6 for 24 in ANY game, in my memory - much less a Clinching Game 7.

Kobe Bryant may in fact be the closest thing to Michael right now, but boy he is still many levels below Michael.

[luckthefakers]

Kobe is a manufactured superstar.  He's a great player, no doubt.  But the league is trying to push him as a legend, and casual fans are lapping it up.  The fact is, he's never been the best player in the league.  Statistically, he's never even been in the top three in PER or win shares, of offensive or defensive efficiency.  He has one MVP and he didn't deserve it (it was a lifetime achievement award).  His lifetime shooting percentage in the Finals is 40% and although he has two Finals MVPs now anyone who watched the series knows he only deserves one of them (with Pau better in every advanced statistical measure, coming up especially big in deciding games 6 & 7, and being the barometer of the Laker wins & loses).  He was a key player in two of the three titles in the first run, but even less of a factor than Pippen was to Jordan.  Kobe fans always try to rewrite history can call him "1A" to Shaq but anyone watching at the time knows he was a sidekick.  Fact is, Kobe has never even come close to Shaq's dominance in any season.

What Kobe does have is two things:
1) Amazing teammates for all but two years of his career (this includes the year he had Butler & Odom and failed to make the playoffs).  He went deep when he had 1) the best player in the NBA (by far) on his team and 2) the best PF in the NBA giftwrapped to him for nothing (not even giving up role players).  You could swap Kobe with any top-tier swingman during the Shaq era and they win three, maybe more.  Swap him with a top-5 swingman and pair with Gasol and titles are likely there too (I mean, what other swingman has even Gasol-level help?)

2) Excellent longevity.  He takes care of himself in the offseason and that is certainly underrated.

He is not in the same realm as Jordan, Magic, or Bird by any objective measure, but the league is desperately trying to give him that credibility by force-feeding him down our throats 24/7.  Heck, the halftime piece during the critical game 7 was not on the Lakers & Celtics but on Kobe's "legacy"!  Are you f'n kidding me? 

[GreenFaith1819]

Kobe is a manufactured superstar.  He's a great player, no doubt.  But the league is trying to push him as a legend, and casual fans are lapping it up.  The fact is, he's never been the best player in the league.  Statistically, he's never even been in the top three in PER or win shares, of offensive or defensive efficiency.  He has one MVP and he didn't deserve it (it was a lifetime achievement award).  His lifetime shooting percentage in the Finals is 40% and although he has two Finals MVPs now anyone who watched the series knows he only deserves one of them (with Pau better in every advanced statistical measure, coming up especially big in deciding games 6 & 7, and being the barometer of the Laker wins & loses).  He was a key player in two of the three titles in the first run, but even less of a factor than Pippen was to Jordan.  Kobe fans always try to rewrite history can call him "1A" to Shaq but anyone watching at the time knows he was a sidekick.  Fact is, Kobe has never even come close to Shaq's dominance in any season.

What Kobe does have is two things:
1) Amazing teammates for all but two years of his career (this includes the year he had Butler & Odom and failed to make the playoffs).  He went deep when he had 1) the best player in the NBA (by far) on his team and 2) the best PF in the NBA giftwrapped to him for nothing (not even giving up role players).  You could swap Kobe with any top-tier swingman during the Shaq era and they win three, maybe more.  Swap him with a top-5 swingman and pair with Gasol and titles are likely there too (I mean, what other swingman has even Gasol-level help?)

2) Excellent longevity.  He takes care of himself in the offseason and that is certainly underrated.

He is not in the same realm as Jordan, Magic, or Bird by any objective measure, but the league is desperately trying to give him that credibility by force-feeding him down our throats 24/7.  Heck, the halftime piece during the critical game 7 was not on the Lakers & Celtics but on Kobe's "legacy"!  Are you f'n kidding me? 

And your last point, my man, is what Baffles me to no end....how can anyone even begin to state that Kobe Bryant is better than Magic Johnson? Just because he has more rings?

But many Laker Fans do - just like they barely mention Shaquille O'Neal and what he did for the Lakers - just a few years ago.

Kobe Bryant proved to me in that Game 7 that he isn't ready to be mentioned along with Bird, or Magic, much less Michael. A clinching Game and he stinks the place up - no injuries, no excuses...just nervous - not ready for the next level.

Larry Bird and Magic Johnson Lived for Game 7's. Michael Jordan Thrived in Game 7's.

[houseonfire09]

Name one big playoff game where a team shoots 5+ more free throws in the 4th quarter than the other team shot in the entire game, and the team with the huge disadvantage won.  I doubt you'll find one.  It shows the Celtics were not allowed to play defense that quarter while the Lakers could do whatever they did all game.  I know in my heart that game was fixed, and I hope Stern rots in jail someday for massive consumer fraud.

[Rashi]

Kobe is a manufactured superstar.  He's a great player, no doubt.  But the league is trying to push him as a legend, and casual fans are lapping it up.  The fact is, he's never been the best player in the league.  Statistically, he's never even been in the top three in PER or win shares, of offensive or defensive efficiency.  He has one MVP and he didn't deserve it (it was a lifetime achievement award).  His lifetime shooting percentage in the Finals is 40% and although he has two Finals MVPs now anyone who watched the series knows he only deserves one of them (with Pau better in every advanced statistical measure, coming up especially big in deciding games 6 & 7, and being the barometer of the Laker wins & loses).  He was a key player in two of the three titles in the first run, but even less of a factor than Pippen was to Jordan.  Kobe fans always try to rewrite history can call him "1A" to Shaq but anyone watching at the time knows he was a sidekick.  Fact is, Kobe has never even come close to Shaq's dominance in any season.

What Kobe does have is two things:
1) Amazing teammates for all but two years of his career (this includes the year he had Butler & Odom and failed to make the playoffs).  He went deep when he had 1) the best player in the NBA (by far) on his team and 2) the best PF in the NBA giftwrapped to him for nothing (not even giving up role players).  You could swap Kobe with any top-tier swingman during the Shaq era and they win three, maybe more.  Swap him with a top-5 swingman and pair with Gasol and titles are likely there too (I mean, what other swingman has even Gasol-level help?)

2) Excellent longevity.  He takes care of himself in the offseason and that is certainly underrated.

He is not in the same realm as Jordan, Magic, or Bird by any objective measure, but the league is desperately trying to give him that credibility by force-feeding him down our throats 24/7.  Heck, the halftime piece during the critical game 7 was not on the Lakers & Celtics but on Kobe's "legacy"!  Are you f'n kidding me? 

And your last point, my man, is what Baffles me to no end....how can anyone even begin to state that Kobe Bryant is better than Magic Johnson? Just because he has more rings?

But many Laker Fans do - just like they barely mention Shaquille O'Neal and what he did for the Lakers - just a few years ago.

Kobe Bryant proved to me in that Game 7 that he isn't ready to be mentioned along with Bird, or Magic, much less Michael. A clinching Game and he stinks the place up - no injuries, no excuses...just nervous - not ready for the next level.

Larry Bird and Magic Johnson Lived for Game 7's. Michael Jordan Thrived in Game 7's.

+1


It angered me...when after game 7...I had to hear some Laker fans say that Kobe beat the Boston Celtics !!

I mean seriously....everyone not named Kobe was the reason Lakers won. If it wasn't for Fisher and Artest hitting those 3's....or Pau getting to the FT line....Lakers wouldn't have won.

[get_banners]

i'll give kobe props - he makes nearly impossible shots more than most all-time greats. BUT, he 'ain't the best laker ever. top 5, definitely, but any laker fan that would put him above shaq, kareem, magic, or west hasn't really been a laker fan for all that long. those four dominated in a way kobe never has, and never will. no shame in that, but the league needs to stop trying to force-feed us this nonsense about how he's better than those guys. and, yeah, he 'ain't jordan.

[luckthefakers]

Name one big playoff game where a team shoots 5+ more free throws in the 4th quarter than the other team shot in the entire game, and the team with the huge disadvantage won.  I doubt you'll find one.

Hah, not 5+ but I can think of two equally bad ones:
1) Lakers-Blazers 2000 WCF, game 7: http://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/200006040LAL.html
Blazers: 16FTs for the game
Lakers: I can't find the data offhand but I believe it was more than 16 (and I think it was close to 20)

2) Lakers-Kings 2002 WCF, game 6: http://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/200205310LAL.html
Kings: 25FTs for the game
Lakers: 27FTs in the 4th quarter!

I don't think there are any other games like this in NBA history, regular season or playoffs.  Kind of an odd coincidence.  Something is correlating these three games... but hmm, I'm not sure what it is.

[luckthefakers]

i'll give kobe props - he makes nearly impossible shots more than most all-time greats. BUT, he 'ain't the best laker ever. top 5, definitely, but any laker fan that would put him above shaq, kareem, magic, or west hasn't really been a laker fan for all that long. those four dominated in a way kobe never has, and never will. no shame in that, but the league needs to stop trying to force-feed us this nonsense about how he's better than those guys. and, yeah, he 'ain't jordan.

Kobe makes incredibly difficult shots because he takes incredibly difficult shots.  I consider this a flaw, not a talent.  Look at all the stupid shots he took in game #7 while being tightly covered or even double teamed.  If he hadn't been bailed out by his teammates and Joey Crawford, this would have gone down as the biggest chokejob in NBA history.  As it is, it'll quickly be forgotten as the league keeps force feeding us this crap about Kobe being "the best closer in the game" all throughout next season and onward.

[houseonfire09]

i'll give kobe props - he makes nearly impossible shots more than most all-time greats. BUT, he 'ain't the best laker ever. top 5, definitely, but any laker fan that would put him above shaq, kareem, magic, or west hasn't really been a laker fan for all that long. those four dominated in a way kobe never has, and never will. no shame in that, but the league needs to stop trying to force-feed us this nonsense about how he's better than those guys. and, yeah, he 'ain't jordan.

Kobe makes incredibly difficult shots because he takes incredibly difficult shots.  I consider this a flaw, not a talent.  Look at all the stupid shots he took in game #7 while being tightly covered or even double teamed.  If he hadn't been bailed out by his teammates and Joey Crawford, this would have gone down as the biggest chokejob in NBA history.  As it is, it'll quickly be forgotten as the league keeps force feeding us this crap about Kobe being "the best closer in the game" all throughout next season and onward.

Ever read "1984"?  There's a few similarities between that book and Kobe's career- media making people forget his selfish play, promoting the idea that he's Jordan when those comparisons should be laughed out of the room for obvious reasons, and a certain incident in Colorado that's apparently out of bounds for anyone in the media to mention.  Bryant was awful that game, and by this time next year, no one outside of Celtics fans will remember that.