Why Can't KG Rebound Anymore?

[ScoobyDoo]

I don't buy the 40,000+ career minutes
I don't buy KG can't jump any more
I don't buy he's not athletic anymore
I don't buy any of that
I don't buy any of the excuses for our rebounding woes.

Anyone who has played any basketball whatsoever knows rebounding is about 99.9% about positioning, the other .1% is about effort and going and getting it.

The Lakers are long, very long. But these guys are not Karl Malone, Dennis Rodman or Tim Duncan in their primes.

Gasol, Odom and Bynum are all pretty soft guys.

All you have to do is lay a body on people. It's a concept called "BOXING OUT".

I'm only 5'10" but I have no reservations whatsoever about goiung up against a guy 6-3 or 6-4 underneath, you can easily dominate that guy on the boards.

1. You box out, you lay a very hard body on him, every play.
2. you stick you're back side inot him and move him out
3. When you go up for the ball you jump back slightly so if he's tyring to go over you're back he's definately going to foul you.

The pathetic part about our rebounding woes is that we had no mismatch with the lakers on the boards.
Bynum: 7 foot ( Perkins and Rasheed, 7 footers)
Gasol: 7 footer ( KG a 7 footer )
Pierc and Artest/ Same size...
Odom and Baby? Gimme a break, Baby should destroy him on the boards with that body and that backside of his.

The Lakers were just simply tougher than us on the boards and wanted it more. We played like Chics on the boards.

And you know what, if you are getting your ass handed to you on the boards, you need to start making it real ugly down there, and you better do it fast.

What that means is "really" laying bodies on peopel and holding your ground.

I can't tell you how mnay times I saw Laker players either:

1. Just walk in with no one putting a body on them. No one even close to them. All our plyers just turn around and watch the ball when the shot goes up, they have no idea where any of the Lakers are.

2. Or they just shoved us from behind and got the rbounds. That is where you have to hold your ground and be willing to go to the amt with the guy. You have to "get into" with him and let the refs make the call. If you don't the refs will let that guy keep pushing you all night, all series and that's exactly what the Lakers did.

And I don't care if KG has relied on his athleticism all his career. There's a thing called BB IQ and it's for making adjustments. It's not a complicated process.

Guys, when the ball goes up, find whoever is closest to you and lay a body on them, box them out, that's it, that's all you have to do.

It's about getting dirty down low.

WE didn't want to do it all season and we didn't want to do against the Lakers.

That's why we lost the championship.

Had we showed any desire to fight and box out collectively as a team we would have been up probably 20 to 25 points by half time and would have won this thing going away.

It was achilles heal all season and it bit us.

We deserved the loss. We worked hard at not boxing out to get it.
     

[twinbree]

We need to box out. It should be something the coaches harp on in training camp and all through next season. Rondo is the only starter athletic enough to even consider just jumping for rebounds. They all need to stick to the fundamentals - box out go up with 2 hands to get the rebound. And the added advantage of establishing position is that it forces the refs to call some of the over the back fouls.

[RAcker]

I'm glad there is a post that raised this question.  It was a pathetic display in last night's game and pretty much all year.  In the end, it came back to bite us.

[ScoobyDoo]

Exactly Twinbree, TP. I look at Sheed, Perk, KG, Baby and Pierce vs. Bynum, Gasol, Odom and Artest?

We should have dominated those guys on the boards.

We just don't box out, E-V-E-R.....

[get_banners]

until his knee injury, KG got boards by his athleticism. now that he's lost some of that (though i think he'll be better next year, fully recovered from the surgery), he had trouble rebounding. he needs to work on his fundamentals this summer, something he hasn't had to worry about his whole career. he even said this at some point near the end of the season - working on footwork, blocking out, etc. that, coupled with improved health from the knee should mean a better (even though he's a year older) KG next season.

[ScoobyDoo]

TP Racker, rebounding is 99.9 % about laying a body on someone, which is establishing position and the rest is just energy and effort in going after it and being willing to get into it with guys down there.

Your'e telling me we couldn't box out Pau Gasol? Pau Gasol was beating us up on the boards?

My grandmother could box him out. This guy is not Karl Malone or Dennis Rodman. He's Pilsbury doughboy soft.

You lay a good body on him and just hold you're ground he's not going to sniff a rebound.

Problem is we just let him waltz into the lane for basically completely unmolested lanes for boards.  

[Who]

Exactly Twinbree, TP. I look at Sheed, Perk, KG, Baby and Pierce vs. Bynum, Gasol, Odom and Artest?

We should have dominated those guys on the boards.

We just don't box out, E-V-E-R.....

Perkins vs Bynum = advantage Bynum
Perkins vs Gasol = neutral
Garnett vs Gasol = advantage Gasol (Pau has had a career year on the boards)
Garnett vs Odom = neutral
Sheed vs Odom = advantage Odom
Sheed vs Bynum = advantage Bynum
Sheed vs Gasol = advantage Gasol
Davis vs Odom = neutral
Davis vs Gasol = advantage Gasol
Davis vs Bynum = advantage Bynum

The Lakers big men should have dominated the Celtics big men on the backboards.

------------------------------------------------

Pierce vs Artest = neutral
Pierce vs Walton = neutral, maybe slight advantage Walton
Rondo vs Kobe = neutral
Rondo vs Fisher = advantage Rondo
Rondo vs Farmer = advantage Rondo
Rondo vs Brown = advantage Rondo
Ray vs Fisher = neutral
Ray vs Vujacic = neutral
Ray vs Brown = neutral
Tony vs Vujacic = advantage Tony
Tony vs Walton = neutral, slight advantage Walton
Nate vs Farmer = neutral
Nate vs Brown = neutral
Nate vs Fisher = neutral

So the Celtics perimeter players have an advantage when Rondo was covered by a point guard but not when Kobe was defending him + an advantage with Tony against a guard but not a wing like Walton.

---------------------------------------------------------

Considering the matchups Los Angeles choose (Kobe on Rondo neutralized the threat of Rondo's rebounding), the Celtics and Lakers perimeter players were fairly even on the backboards.

Therefore, with the Lakers advantage with their big men, the Lakers should win the rebounding battle versus the Celtics.

[Chris]

KG can't rebound anymore, because he is not longer more athletic than everyone.  He never was a good positional rebounder, or good at blocking out.  He jumped over everyone.  Now he can't do that anymore.  He has done a good job of reworking his game to be effective, but he is what he is now, and I don't think it is ever getting better.

[celtics2]

Mike Gorman made a statement yesterday that Doc said to him,"with KG another season removed from surgery will help his step,bounce,rebounding,etc...i beleive if they keep the same core players and strengthen the bench we will be there at the end in the finals 2011,and we will see a better rebounding KG.

I believe he is correct. He and Perk however will never rebound the same. Tony Allen is skying again but he doesn't need to do it every trip down the floor.

[wizeass993]

I think that it was just bad calls by refs, KG's fatigue and lack of Perkins that contributed to this loss. This is a tough loss...

[ScoobyDoo]

I understand you're analysis Who but still disagree.

The simple and plain fact of the matter is:

1. This team DOES-NOT-BOX-OUT, period. They just don't do it.

2. You have to lay your body on guys, and then back them away form the boards with your back side. It is 101 simple

3. You have to get nasty down there, this team just simply never had any interest in doing that consistently all season.

4. I don't care if KG can't jump any more. He's smart guy. Put your ass into someone and your arms out. Fundamental.

I can't count the number of times KG would be standing there or any of our other guys and a Laker would just walk into the open lane, unmolested and grab a board. Or they would just shove us in the back and again we wouldn't hold our ground and force the refs to amke the call.

We played like undisciplined chics on the boards and made it way too easy for them.

When we were shorthanded in the 80's I watched Bird go toe to toe with karl Malone because he had to play PF and Bird came away with 18-20 boards. That's a complete mismatch but he played position ball all night on the glass and he got dirty.

We have none of that fundamental skill of positional rebounding or that grit down there this season. Never did and it cost us the title.

It's about carving your spot and refusing to give it up. 

[greg_kite]

I understand you're analysis Who but still disagree.

The simple and plain fact of the matter is:

1. This team DOES-NOT-BOX-OUT, period. They just don't do it.

2. You have to lay your body on guys, and then back them away form the boards with your back side. It is 101 simple

3. You have to get nasty down there, this team just simply never had any interest in doing that consistently all season.

4. I don't care if KG can't jump any more. He's smart guy. Put your ass into someone and your arms out. Fundamental.

I can't count the number of times KG would be standing there or any of our other guys and a Laker would just walk into the open lane, unmolested and grab a board. Or they would just shove us in the back and again we wouldn't hold our ground and force the refs to amke the call.

We played like undisciplined chics on the boards and made it way too easy for them.

When we were shorthanded in the 80's I watched Bird go toe to toe with karl Malone because he had to play PF and Bird came away with 18-20 boards. That's a complete mismatch but he played position ball all night on the glass and he got dirty.

We have none of that fundamental skill of positional rebounding or that grit down there this season. Never did and it cost us the title.

It's about carving your spot and refusing to give it up. 

I'm sure KG understands HOW to rebound.  But his job on this team is to get stops.  He is very good at getting those.  The problem is he's no longer quick enough to turn back around after he contests the shots and grab the board.

I don't know the final tally on the offensive boards, but in the first half the Lakers had 15.  They scored 9 points off those boards.  So of a possible 30 points they scored 9, or less than 30% of whay they could possibly score.  So while the C's gave up second chances they didn't give up and stop defending.

[RJ87]

KG never went to get the ball... he just tapped it. Reach for it. Never grabbed. Yeah gasol and bynum are big, but KG with inside position should be able to rebound. Gasol wasn't exaclty jumping over KG, he had better position.

I can't count how many times this series (all season really) KG tried one hand rebounds in traffic. He never just went up strong with 2 hands and got it.

Regardless, he only had 3 rebounds last night... I repeat, 3 rebounds.
It's tough to win like that.

[Meadowlark_Scal]

The knee injury...playing all season, hurting the knee again, then no real time to do any weight training/strength training and get his strength back to where it needed to be. Playing all the time, working on your game, not much time to do the needed weights for strength....the draw back from the weights is the soreness/tightness that will last the first few months, until you get the legs...he didn't have that time, that is what he needs to do over the summer. It was rough to see him struggle, he has more heart than anyone on the Lakers, and can handle the pressure better..but his legs just wouldn't do it this year. Too many season minutes also. Did he play in the all star game again...if so, it was a big mistake....time off around then is a big plus for older legs...!!!

[LB3533]

I think KG over-exhausts himself prior to the start of each game.

I think KG needs to chill out to conserve some mental strength for the game itself.