Author Topic: I'm done  (Read 34087 times)

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Re: I'm about done
« Reply #75 on: June 09, 2010, 12:22:30 PM »

Offline Mike-Dub

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So yeah the C's can blame themselves a lot for this loss but so can they do on the officials.

Yes we can blame the officials for this loss as fans, but the C's definitely cannot, they have to play through it no matter what. 

We still had our chances to win, but had turnovers on key possessions and didn't get stops. 

Along with that we can't have a first half like we did.

We can blame the officials, because they have been pretty bad, but again, the C's definitely cannot they have to play through it and get it done whether they are getting the calls against them, for them, or the game is called evenly. 
"It's all about having the heart of a champion." - #34 Paul Pierce

Re: I'm about done
« Reply #76 on: June 09, 2010, 12:33:39 PM »

Offline vinnie

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So yeah the C's can blame themselves a lot for this loss but so can they do on the officials.

Yes we can blame the officials for this loss as fans, but the C's definitely cannot, they have to play through it no matter what. 

We still had our chances to win, but had turnovers on key possessions and didn't get stops. 

Along with that we can't have a first half like we did.

We can blame the officials, because they have been pretty bad, but again, the C's definitely cannot they have to play through it and get it done whether they are getting the calls against them, for them, or the game is called evenly. 

TP

Re: I'm about done
« Reply #77 on: June 09, 2010, 12:51:15 PM »

Offline indeedproceed

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There's got to be a morning after............If we can hold on through the night..........We have a chance to find the sunshine...............Let's keep on looking for the light

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Re: I'm about done
« Reply #78 on: June 09, 2010, 01:31:50 PM »

Offline Rondo_is_better

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You know who didn't lose tonight because of the officiating?  The Boston Celtics.

Read his post: you're not wanted here because you're one of those nuts who thinks the refs have nothing to do with a game. What he pointed out:

1. touch fouls and rape
2. momentum breaking, really absurd calls

are absolute facts of this series. How you can not see that is absolutely beyond me, and they have extreme extenuating effects.
Like how the refs handed us game 2 with the phantom foul calls on Kobe, right? ...what? I don't even understand what you're trying to say.

It is not nuts to think that the refs can affect outcomes. It is nuts when people think the refs are pulling for the team they don't root for. Uhh, I don't think they're rooting for the Lakers. I think they're awful referees who for whatever reason happen to be letting the Lakers get away with murder. It is a bit pathetic when there are individuals, hopefully none here, who can only see missed calls in one direction and who rage about the refs being against their team while nutjob fans for the opposing team say the converse. I'm perfectly capable of seeing bad calls from both sides. There are scores of them, every game.

Bad calls can definitely affect outcomes, but not as much as Ray shooting poorly. Then again, maybe if Paul Pierce was allowed to play last night he could have gotten in rhythm and made up for Ray. Maybe he attracts the attention of the Lakers D and they help a little more, Ray gets open for some easier shots. The extenuating effects of officiating can be massive. They were last night. That is the point many are making. The effect of the refs was hardly significant compared to the missed jumpers from the start of the game, especially since we had bad calls in both directions.Its also less about the bad calls, and more about the NON-calls. Fisher and Artest should both be fouling out by half time the way they're guarding Pierce and Allen. Constant off the ball fouling, no calls. Gasol and Bynum are also being allowed to push/shove in rebounding action, and they do it even more than we do. The same Laker big guys are being permitted to fight tooth and nail to keep us out of good post position, while we are called for fouls if we fight for position, on offense or defense. Sheed from last night comes to mind.

This is one of the only reasons I have a little respect for Kobe. The refs really killed him with bad calls in game 2, and he blamed no one outside of the Lakers locker room for their loss. Kind of like Paul Pierce. This is also why I can't stand Phil Jackson and, for the most part, Sheed.

The refs didn't make KG set an illegal pick down the stretch, nor did they make Ray miss. They also didn't make the Celtics watch Fisher bring the ball down the court until he was already just outside the lane. This is all true, but the significant detrimental effect of the way the game was called last night took away our margin of error -- we would have had to play stellar ball, instead of just okay, to beat a Laker team that was playing only okay. We were overcoming an inherent disadvantage.
Grab a few boards, keep the TO's under 14, close out on shooters and we'll win.

Re: I'm about done
« Reply #79 on: June 09, 2010, 03:06:57 PM »

Offline reggie35

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I've been "crying" about the officiating situation in the NBA for sometime now. My solution is to get rid of on the court refs all together and let players call their own violations (while the opponent has the right to request up to n reviews from video officials).

That's probably too radical but the NBA could take any number of simple steps to make things more transparent and improve officiating but it does next to nothing. As long as that's the case, people have a right to wonder if they're watching a Broadway production or not.

And they certainly have the right to watch less of it, as I have started doing. The NCAA tournament/Olympics is way more entertaining than these whistle fests.

Re: I'm about done
« Reply #80 on: June 09, 2010, 03:18:58 PM »

Offline get_banners

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we need someone within the league to leak information that shows the league and refs are working together to try and push series as long as possible for revenue purposes (if that is what is happening, which is what i think many nba fans believe to be the case). otherwise, i doubt anything will happen. stern runs the league as a dictator. there is no transparency. sportswriters tend to self-censor themselves on this topic, or weaken their own arguments so much as to make them ineffective. i don't think the league is trying to engineer a laker victory. i think they want to make sure it goes 6 or 7. seeing how close the games have been, even with the horrible officiating against us, which has not allowed us to play physical defense for any long period of time, i think it becomes obvious they needed to call things this way, or else the series would end in 5. don't forget, the league has lost a lot of money the past year or two. extra revenue from additional playoff games would help.

Re: I'm about done
« Reply #81 on: June 09, 2010, 04:29:51 PM »

Offline hpantazo

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we need someone within the league to leak information that shows the league and refs are working together to try and push series as long as possible for revenue purposes (if that is what is happening, which is what i think many nba fans believe to be the case). otherwise, i doubt anything will happen. stern runs the league as a dictator. there is no transparency. sportswriters tend to self-censor themselves on this topic, or weaken their own arguments so much as to make them ineffective. i don't think the league is trying to engineer a laker victory. i think they want to make sure it goes 6 or 7. seeing how close the games have been, even with the horrible officiating against us, which has not allowed us to play physical defense for any long period of time, i think it becomes obvious they needed to call things this way, or else the series would end in 5. don't forget, the league has lost a lot of money the past year or two. extra revenue from additional playoff games would help.

I'm ok with that as long as the better team (the celtics obviously) wins in the end. If it means that the lakers win thanks to the bs officiating that we have seen to that the league can stretch the series to 6 or 7 games and also market kobe, gasol and co. harder, then I'm done watching the NBA for a long while. I will just stick to playing basketball myself as a way to enjoy the sport.  I can deal with the lakers winning if they play better than the celtics, but not if they have games handed to them the way the have so far. On a separate note, when do you guys expect to read about Doc and Davis being fined for their anti-ref comments? Tonight or tomorrow morning? Phil has been doing it all through the playoffs despite Stern's warnings and he gets away with it, but I'm sure Doc and Glenn will take a hit in their paychecks soon.

Re: I'm about done
« Reply #82 on: June 09, 2010, 04:32:07 PM »

Offline vinnie

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Do people really believe that the league is intentionally prolonging the playoffs in cooperation with the referees? If so, why don't they make every series 7 games, since the amount of revenue would increase dramatically? Why not extend both the Cleveland and Orlando series to 7 games? None of this makes any sense.

Re: I'm about done
« Reply #83 on: June 09, 2010, 04:35:21 PM »

Offline LB3533

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Do people really believe that the league is intentionally prolonging the playoffs in cooperation with the referees? If so, why don't they make every series 7 games, since the amount of revenue would increase dramatically? Why not extend both the Cleveland and Orlando series to 7 games? None of this makes any sense.

I think because the officiating has been awful for every playoff series...that's the evidence right there that the refs are trying to influence the games in the fashion that would benefit the league as best as it can.

With that said, refs can only do so much...can't do enough to have an effect on an entire series.


Re: I'm about done
« Reply #84 on: June 09, 2010, 04:36:28 PM »

Offline hpantazo

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Do people really believe that the league is intentionally prolonging the playoffs in cooperation with the referees? If so, why don't they make every series 7 games, since the amount of revenue would increase dramatically? Why not extend both the Cleveland and Orlando series to 7 games? None of this makes any sense.

the league is not that stupid, it would be far too obvious to exaggerate the manipulations. Too many people who are not really basketball fans have been telling me for years now "why do you get so worked up about the games, everyone knows they are fixed". The league had to tone it down somewhat. Also, who really cared about the two conference finals series except for the cities that were in them? No one outside of those 4 cities wanted to see LA-Pheonix or Boston-Orlando, they were waiting for the LA-Boston finals once Lebron got eliminated.

Re: I'm about done
« Reply #85 on: June 09, 2010, 04:37:44 PM »

Offline vinnie

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And yet, for the opening game of the series, TV ratings were up 17 percent over last year? Of course, it is Boston and LA, but people all over the country are tuning in in droves.

Re: I'm about done
« Reply #86 on: June 09, 2010, 04:40:05 PM »

Offline hpantazo

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And yet, for the opening game of the series, TV ratings were up 17 percent over last year? Of course, it is Boston and LA, but people all over the country are tuning in in droves.

By comparing it to last year's ratings, I really wouldn't say they are tuning in in droves. I know I didn't watch the LA-Magic series last year and many other people I know who follow basketball skipped it. Beating those ratings doesn't say much. Now if they beat the ratings during the Bulls finals series in the 90's then I would be impressed.

Re: I'm about done
« Reply #87 on: June 09, 2010, 04:51:05 PM »

Offline hpantazo

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And yet, for the opening game of the series, TV ratings were up 17 percent over last year? Of course, it is Boston and LA, but people all over the country are tuning in in droves.

By comparing it to last year's ratings, I really wouldn't say they are tuning in in droves. I know I didn't watch the LA-Magic series last year and many other people I know who follow basketball skipped it. Beating those ratings doesn't say much. Now if they beat the ratings during the Bulls finals series in the 90's then I would be impressed.

In fact, regarding past NBA finals ratings, check out these stats:

http://tvbythenumbers.com/2009/05/22/nba-finals-tv-ratings-1974-2008/19324

and the quote at the bottom:

 "Perhaps more important than the matchup though is the number of games the finals series lasts. A 4 game series among the weak ratings matchup certainly would set an all time low, but even among the marquis matchup wouldn’t come close to last years ratings levels."

Re: I'm about done
« Reply #88 on: June 09, 2010, 05:43:42 PM »

Offline marshall07

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I can't help but to chime in now.  First, I agree that the refereeing has been inconsistent and that there have been blown calls.  But when was the last time you saw a perfectly officiated game?  You have the same chance as having a team shoot 100% from the field... 

I'm not sure what some are saying that refereeing has changed this whole series...  I'm not sure what we mean that we get no calls inside...

First, the Laker bigs get calls inside because they are the aggressors.  They are attacking the basket more than we are.  During the Phoenix series, Lakers were complaining that Phoenix was getting all the inside calls.  Duh?  You had Nash, Amare and company constantly attacking the basket... They attacked the basket, they started getting calls.  The Lakers had to adjust but Phoenix still averaged 100+ pts per game on them.  It's just too bad Phx didn't play ANY defense.  Who was attacking in games 1 & 3?  Perkins? Sheed? C'mon.  We are not running good offensive sets. Period.  Doc alluded to this.  We are taking some bad shots, and a lot of outside jumpers.  What foul are you looking for there?  We still shot free throws last night, because when we attacked the basket, we got foul calls (i.e. PP's late minute and 1).  I almost threw something at the TV when I thought Bryant fouled Perkins on a drive.  Then I see the replay and he packed Perkins who took the ball to the rim weaker than a 6th grader.  When you see that play, you realize why he doesnt get a call...

The game has been called tight on both ends.  Artest drew 2 very quick fouls in the 1st.  When YOU KNOW this, you must adjust.  Can I ask this?  What was PP doing trying to root Artest from the block on his 5th foul?  Artest 50% of the time will turn the ball over, 30% of the time will dribble out the shot clock, and the other 20% of the time throw up a ridiculous shot that has 10% chance of going in.  The game is being called tight and you have 4 fouls... soooooo... you want to fight him for position?   PP is a vet and should no better... Kobe?  He didnt get fouls called because he was playing 10 feet off of Rondo...  what did Rondo do? Nothing.  His j is decent, he needs to drain a few to create respect and have Kobe play him honest.  That will open up the offense.  Sheed's foul on Gasol was phantom, but he shouldn't have leaned his arms over.  They go straight up, no foul and Gasol would have bricked the shot.

I just watched the game again on DVR.  The Laker bigs "lean" on picks, but Boston bigs create the illusion of moving when they get called.  They need to create cleaner picks.  Plain and simple.  KG got goaded into the illegal pick after the replay reversal.  Gasol flopped but KG didn't need to push off (slightly).  Ray had a clear path to the basket without the push (but he didn't make it anyways).  We didn't lose the game there anyways.  We lost it on the 21-5 run in the first.  We just played horrible.  No execution on Off or Def.  I hate playing catchup. 

I think the 1st to games were a wash, because we defintely got the better end of the calls on game 2 (not complaining).  Kobe's fouls were very ticky tack (especially the one Rondo got on him falling out of bounds). But you see what happens when you play aggressive?  Also, we got a crucial call go our way as I thought they were going to reverse the out of bounds call at the end of the game when the ball went off KG.  I think this is what Doc was alluding to when he said "had to be conclusive" regarding yesterday's reversal.  The call on Artest agaisnt PP on the break went in our favor as well.  Score game 2 for us. 

Yes, I hate that they call it tight, but that's how they are calling it.  We had our chances yesterday.  The foul Rondo committed on Odom wasn't called and we got the ball back.  What happened?  We didn't execute.  The reach around foul on Rondo before Fisher hit that shot wasn't called and could have been and and one.  But does it matter? No.  What mattered there was the p----poor pick and roll defense. That was the 2nd time they ran that same play and got the same result. 

What we need to do is play smarter.  Their defense is based on rotations.  That's what created so many open shots for Ray in game 2.  In game 3 they were quicker on rotations and jumped out to contest Ray's shots (blocked 2 of them).  How bout Ray give a pump fake and draw a foul ala Kobe?  How bout he pump fake and drive it to the basket.  Ray is a very underrated driver.  Now that we know the tone of how the games are being called we can adjust and I believe Doc can create a winning game plan.




Re: I'm about done
« Reply #89 on: June 09, 2010, 05:49:24 PM »

Offline LB3533

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And yet, for the opening game of the series, TV ratings were up 17 percent over last year? Of course, it is Boston and LA, but people all over the country are tuning in in droves.

By comparing it to last year's ratings, I really wouldn't say they are tuning in in droves. I know I didn't watch the LA-Magic series last year and many other people I know who follow basketball skipped it. Beating those ratings doesn't say much. Now if they beat the ratings during the Bulls finals series in the 90's then I would be impressed.

In fact, regarding past NBA finals ratings, check out these stats:

http://tvbythenumbers.com/2009/05/22/nba-finals-tv-ratings-1974-2008/19324

and the quote at the bottom:

 "Perhaps more important than the matchup though is the number of games the finals series lasts. A 4 game series among the weak ratings matchup certainly would set an all time low, but even among the marquis matchup wouldn’t come close to last years ratings levels."

A lot of things happened to trigger the downfall of ratings for television, not just sports on TV.

The NBA lockout in '99, Jordan's retirement of '98, introduction of Tivo and DVR in the early 2000's, etc.

By 2005, many households would have their own DVR or Tivo receiver.

The Lakers/Celtics Finals in '08 was watched by almost 15 million viewers, pretty high considering all the different mediums and entertainment devices out now.

If this year's Finals can duplicate that then it is a big win for the NBA.