I'm done

[angryguy77]

I have to agree with Polsmpos here. I'm done hearing about the refs. Ray gave us NOTHING offensively, except two FTs.

Everytime the C's had a chance to make a run or just take the lead period, they screwed it up, somehow some way. They didn't deserve to win.

Give it a rest. The refs have never been perfect, but we won't win anymore games playing the sloppy ball we did. At all. Maybe it is a Game 3 thing, since we're 1-2 at home in Game 3s. Who knows.

And I'll say it again before someone brings him up: Tim Donaghy can stuff it and go live in a cave. I don't buy his crack, and neither should anyone else.

Tell that to the Kings fan who still imagines an invisable banner.

We have a precedent, the league has done nothing to assure us they cleaned up a problem. Nobody can say with 100% confidence that it's on the level.

The league has allowed a ref to ask a player to fight after a game.
Most of us would be fired if we asked a coworker to fight for looking at us funny.

The league rewarded a ref with a finals game after he lost his cool and threw a ball at a fan.
All of us would be fired if we attacked a customer at our jobs.

We cannot be blamed for questioning the integrity of the league when they do nothing to persuade us to think otherwise.

[dooyork]

This game was a debacle and a catastrophe.

[twinbree]

I don't believe the refs can be equally bad both ways TBH. Even if they blow the same number of calls for each team, someone usually still gets the short end of the stick. Differences in the timing and nature of the calls, who draws the foul, how important the players who get the fouls, who gets possession, whose momentum is halted etc.

These all determine the impact of the officiating not how many bad calls are made. That's why the refs have to do a better job and especially stop giving make-up calls because the officiating will never be anything approaching fair otherwise.

[scottwedman]

The problem is not the refs.  The problem is that Paul Freaking Pierce is not impacting the game.  He has numbers, but is no where to be found in those moments that determine the outcome.

Ditto Ray Allen - as spectacular as he was in game 2, if Rajon doesn't take over in the last 5 minutes, we'd be down 0-3.

[PosImpos]

The problem is not the refs.  The problem is that Paul Freaking Pierce is not impacting the game.  He has numbers, but is no where to be found in those moments that determine the outcome.

Ditto Ray Allen - as spectacular as he was in game 2, if Rajon doesn't take over in the last 5 minutes, we'd be down 0-3.

Yeah, 2008 Finals MVP and 2010 Milk Carton Picture

[get_banners]

the calls have not been even. yes, the lakers have also gotten hosed a number of times, but we've gotten the fouls at the worst time - to kill momentum, to take players out of games at key stretches. we've also had way more phantom fouls called on us. yeah, i know, if ray hit a few shots, we'd win. maybe. but if the game was called evenly, we'd win, anyway. come on, how obvious was it that the refs manufactured fouls on us when we were closing in? the clean block by rasheed, the foul where pierce's face made contact with artest's moving elbow, ray's moving his elbow and fisher clearly flopping, gasol's flops in the 4th quarter...there were a lot of these on LA. also, reversing the KG out-of-bounds play was crazy at the end. i don't think the league wants LA to win, necessarily, but they want to guarantee a 6 or 7 game series. watch, they'll call it in our advantage the next two games, and we go back to LA up 3-2. LA fans will say we're complaining. i'd dare any non-partisan nba fan to watch games 1-3 (with 1 being one we definitely should have lost, anyway) and say we didn't get the short end of the stick on calls in any of the games. tonight, the timing of the bad calls was just perfect. honestly, we need a leaked letter or email or recorded phone conversation to break this on-going ref/league scandal. its not about getting certain teams to win, its about calling games to best enable series to go as long as possible to get more revenue.

[celts34pats55]

...it has by far the most incompetent officials in all of major sports, so bad that we know them by name...

Two things.

1.  It is also the most difficult sport to call (because a lot of calls are so subjective), but it is also the sport most affected by the officials.

2.  We shouldn't know their names.  Once we do they should no longer be allowed to be officials.  Someone like Joey Crawford should no longer be allowed to be a ref after the Tim Duncan incident.  Or the Rajon Rondo incident.  Or one of 100+ other incidents.  If I remember correctly Crawford was featured All-Star Saturday night like 2 years ago racing Charles Barkley.  I think he thinks a lot of people are there to watch him officiate, and he is not the only one.

You're thinking of Dick Bavetta, but you're right, these refs think they are part of the story..they're not! Worst officiated game I've ever seen. Thanks a lot for giving me my first attended Boston sports playoff loss (I was 9-0 going into tonight)

[LB3533]

Should never quit until it's over.

[Rondo_is_better]

This is to no one in particular:

It's simple.

If following the NBA is making you miserable, then walk away.

Please.

The game is not perfect, nobody is thrilled with the referees and everybody hates John Hollinger but beyond all that...

If you really, TRULY believe it's fixed you'd have to be a masochist to keep watching.

So don't.

There are a billion other soul-nurturing ways you can spend your time.

Go do that instead.

1) see first post.

2) Reading first post will tell you that I'm not 100% convinced of it being rigged. However if we are allowed to play d like we have for the whole playoffs prior to these 3 games, you will be fooling yourself for thinking this is legit. We will see in the next 2 games.

Can we agree on the following:

1) The refs are calling the games tight, which doesn't allow either team to play especially physical defense.

2) The reffing hasn't been clearly skewed towards one team or the other.  There have been bad calls on both sides, and neither team has been able to get away with playing especially tough.

3) The Celtics are having trouble in large part because of their inability to play as tough as they did earlier in the post-season.  The Lakers have been able to overcome it because they're a great offensive team.

In other words, the way the games are being called has made things difficult for the Celtics.  It's not a conspiracy to screw up the Celtics, but it's hurt them more than the Lakers because of the kind of team they are.

It sucks, but it's not fixed.

See, that's EXACTLY the thing -- that's NOT what's happening. They're calling it tight all around, but ABSURDLY tight on us. Touch fouls. Whereas Derek Fisher is allowed to grab, bump and hold Ray Allen all night -- Fisher ends up with 3 fouls, but its 1 in the first quarter, 1 in the 3rd, and 1 in the 4th. That's NOT foul trouble because of the spacing of the fouls. They allow the Lakers defensive dogs (Artest, Fisher) free reign -- they foul Pierce and Allen literally every possession. They get a couple off the ball fouls, more than you would NORMALLY see in an NBA game, but the way they're playing they should be fouled out by half time, AND, these games are NOT normal NBA games. Kobe also didn't get any fouls called on him all game tonight (2 total, totally inconsequential) even though he had several clear fouls, they just went uncalled.

The Laker bigs, Bynum and Gasol, SHOVE on every rebound to clear space. That's how they're getting position. They also go over the back all the time. It all goes uncalled. I understand that  Perk does it as egregiously as Bynum and Gasol do, but there were three or four plays tonight for both Bynum and Gasol in which they committed a blatant loose ball foul that went uncalled. The Laker big men are also allowed to fight back in the post, keep us off the block. Every time we push back (Sheed, KG, Pierce) and try to get Lakers off the block, we get called for a foul. They don't.

Sure, the Lakers are getting called for more fouls than you typically see a team pick up, but the number of fouls they accrue PALES in comparison to the number of fouls we get whistled for, not to mention how QUICKLY we get called for those fouls. The Lakers are in the bonus by the 6 minute mark almost every game, and our best players get into foul trouble really, really early in quarters.

These are somewhat subtle details, but if you look closely, you see how drastically they effect the Celtics. These are the reasons why the refs have been playing such a huge role in this series.

[Las Vegas Asian]

And I'll say it again before someone brings him up: Tim Donaghy can stuff it and go live in a cave. I don't buy his crack, and neither should anyone else.

I don't want to believe him either but he's like 17-2 in his pregame analysis...you don't just do that by luck.

[Drucci]

I think people who say "officiating has nothing to do with it, the Celtics can only blame themselves" are as wrong as people who claim that the loss is because of the officiating.

Officiating is a factor in the game, and a big one, it's obvious. Last night it was just atrocious once again. Ridiculous foul trouble on Pierce (he got his 5th foul on a "fight for position" battle with Artest, a thing they've been doing all series/game and they never call, and suddenly it's a foul... are you kidding me?!), and most importantly ridiculous calls in favor of the Lakers down the stretch.

Yes, the Celtics can blame themselves for poor execution and Ray's terrible night. Yes they can blame themselves for missed FT's, etc. And they deserved to lose because of that. But seriously, everytime they made a big run and came within 1 or 2 points, the refs made a TERRIBLE call at either end to screw them. The moving screen on Perk (which he did all game long - as the Lakers bigs did - without getting called), the offensive foul on Pierce - when Fisher got called for the same play as a defensive foul all game long -, the shooting foul whistled against Sheed on his clean block (couldn't be cleaner) on Gasol that gave him 2 FT's, the non calls on KG and the dubious calls on ticky tack fouls on Fisher (mostly) on the other end, Artest getting away with a possible charge (the way KG was getting ignored by the refs on the other end it was just shocking to see Artest not called for anything there), etc, etc.

So yeah the C's can blame themselves a lot for this loss but so can they do on the officials. Maybe Doc should start whining in postgame conferences like Phil does because it sure has benefited the Lakers so far.

And I'm sorry but when, in a Finals series, you, as a fan, genuinely wonder which player will get in foul trouble for the next game (so far, Ray, Kobe, Pierce, hopefully it will be a Laker), it does say a lot about the terrible officiating and the conspiracy theories. It's totally a shame that we are left to wonder "who is next?" after 3 games and to expect another game with 50 free throws between the two teams and dubious calls for the Lakers.

And Stern wonders why his league has a credibility problem? Wow...

[connerhenry43]

The problem is not the refs.  The problem is that Paul Freaking Pierce is not impacting the game.  He has numbers, but is no where to be found in those moments that determine the outcome.

Ditto Ray Allen - as spectacular as he was in game 2, if Rajon doesn't take over in the last 5 minutes, we'd be down 0-3.

as for pierce, he never got into a rhythm because of some ridiculous foul calls, including a fifth foul which was one of the bigger jokes of all time.

my friends and i were trying to speculate yesterday morning, who will the refs go after tonite, pierce or ray? after lork kobe actually got 5 fouls the other night (admittedely some of which were bad calls), and espn did everything but film a outside the lines investigation into it, we all knew the refs would target one of our stars. i guess they flipped a coin and went after paul.

[CoachBo]

I think people who say "officiating has nothing to do with it, the Celtics can only blame themselves" are as wrong as people who claim that the loss is because of the officiating.

Officiating is a factor in the game, and a big one, it's obvious. Last night it was just atrocious once again. Ridiculous foul trouble on Pierce (he got his 5th foul on a "fight for position" battle with Artest, a thing they've been doing all series/game and they never call, and suddenly it's a foul... are you kidding me?!), and most importantly ridiculous calls in favor of the Lakers down the stretch.

Yes, the Celtics can blame themselves for poor execution and Ray's terrible night. Yes they can blame themselves for missed FT's, etc. And they deserved to lose because of that. But seriously, everytime they made a big run and came within 1 or 2 points, the refs made a TERRIBLE call at either end to screw them. The moving screen on Perk (which he did all game long - as the Lakers bigs did - without getting called), the offensive foul on Pierce - when Fisher got called for the same play as a defensive foul all game long -, the shooting foul whistled against Sheed on his clean block (couldn't be cleaner) on Gasol that gave him 2 FT's, the non calls on KG and the dubious calls on ticky tack fouls on Fisher (mostly) on the other end, Artest getting away with a possible charge (the way KG was getting ignored by the refs on the other end it was just shocking to see Artest not called for anything there), etc, etc.

So yeah the C's can blame themselves a lot for this loss but so can they do on the officials. Maybe Doc should start whining in postgame conferences like Phil does because it sure has benefited the Lakers so far.

And I'm sorry but when, in a Finals series, you, as a fan, genuinely wonder which player will get in foul trouble for the next game (so far, Ray, Kobe, Pierce, hopefully it will be a Laker), it does say a lot about the terrible officiating and the conspiracy theories. It's totally a shame that we are left to wonder "who is next?" after 3 games and to expect another game with 50 free throws between the two teams and dubious calls for the Lakers.

And Stern wonders why his league has a credibility problem? Wow...

WADR, I'm simply not going to side with you on the officiating when the Celtics play as poorly as they did last night on both ends of the floor.

I certainly saw several calls that sent me stomping around the house screaming last night.

However, I saw pick and rolls loafed, terrible free throw shooting, terrible ball movement, terrible movement away from the basketball and no defense at key spots in the game. It is absolutely unacceptable to let old, bald Derek Fisher turn the corner time after time on a pick and roll. Can't happen. Period.

The officials didn't lose Game 3. The Lakers tried to give it to us, and we weren't good enough to take it. If Doc and the ballclub are in meetings today trying to sluff last night off on the officiating, then our season is going to be over soon.

Very soon.

Instead, they better be directing their energies toward cleaning up some very serious, and persistent, deficits in their game.

Right now.

[Shoot the J]

I agree on all counts that the officiating has been terrible. And I agree that there have been plenty of bad calls against both teams. I can only see as much as my hdtv will allow me to, but all i know is that through all 3 games so far, i've seen the lakers get each and every foul call when there's 3 or 4 guys clogging the paint. Yet on the other side of the court I see Davis and Perkins getting hacked left and right in the exact same situation with no calls. I've never been so frustrated watching a series. In each of these three games we've seen Allen, Garnett, and now Pierce spending significant time on the bench early and often because of cheap, non-shooting fouls that wouldn't get called in a high school game. Having any one of those guys watching from the bench is going to effect the rhythm of this team

That aside, I hate excuses, and I know almost everyone hates to hear other teams excuses, ala No Bynum in '08. The reasons the Celtics lost last night are poor free throw shooting, even worse 3pt shooting, and allowing Derek f'in Fisher to go the length of the court, beat 4 guys, and draw the foul.

Oh, and the other reason they lost was due to poor refereeing 

[celticinorlando]

we knew at 900 when they announced these 3 guys boston would be playing 5 on 8. this combined with phil jackson telling the refs what he wanted to be called and crying after game 2...doomed boston.

the refs absolutely killed boston early. they allowed LA to get back into the game with FTs and they took PP and Perk out in the FIRST quarter with 2 quick fouls. PP NEVER had a chance to get going because of the fouls.

And tell me this...how do 2 7 footers never get called for anything? i don't think bynum got called for a foul in this series...and you knew kobe was going to have less than 3 fouls spaced out nicely...sheed blocks gasol straight up and they call a foul? yet bynum and gasol can block everything in sight and get nothing called?

doc rivers had it right after the game to call the officials out...it was criminal

even my wife...who never watches the NBA and doesnt really care asked me why does boston get called for so many fouls and when the lakers do the same things boston does..they dont.