Bosh+Magic=Dynasty

[RondoKid]

How does that make them a Dynasty? Bosh is soft and has proven nothing. If he is so good than why didn't the Raptors make the playoffs this year? His team really isn't that bad.

[Coach]

Remember, this is a sign and trade, not just a trade.  Toronto could lose him for nothing, so they would be happy to get anything in return.

[Dybdal]

I really have no comment on weather or not its possible, but i do find the option of sending Vince Carter to the Raptors for Bosh posibility highly amusing.

Think about it, not only would Vince have to come back to the Raptors outside of New Jersey thats most likely the only place he would least like to go but not only that it would solidfy the Raptors and the place for Orlando Magic rejects.

[kozlodoev]

Aside from the fact that the statement is out there, why exactly should we care about the Magic?

[Birdbrain]

How does that make them a Dynasty? Bosh is soft and has proven nothing. If he is so good than why didn't the Raptors make the playoffs this year? His team really isn't that bad.

Agreed still don't see what people see in Bosh.  He reminds me Lamar Odom but, with less defense.

[Eeyore III]

The mentality over in Magicland is curious, to say the least.

Most of the savants over on Orlando Pinstripe Post are strangely committed to an offense of Howard in the post, with 4 three-point shooters.  They shoot down any proposal that involves adding a starter who is not a three-point shooter.  Bosh will take a three-pointer only in an emergency.

Also, they seemingly would rather be 13 deep with a "flat" talent profile (13th man almost as good as 6th man), as opposed to trading their extra assets so as to assemble the best possible 8-man rotation.

Strangest of all, they absolve Rashard "Dogmeat" Lewis from any serious blame for their status as perrenial also-rans.

They're in a self-defeating cycle, IMHO.  Even adding Bosh--which won't happen--wouldn't make them a serious contender, much less a dynasty.

[Brendan]

Howard, Bosh, Lewis would be a very nice front court. While playing Lewis at PF has some advantages, I think him at SF has more. I think there problem is they have lots of good depth, but not a great rotation.

For all the grief VC is taking, I think Nelson is just as bad. If they could actually get Bosh, I'd consider moving Vince and Nelson and to remake the guard rotation. They could probably start JJ and bring Pietrus off the bench.

[ibby]

I like to think it takes a serious All-star prospect to get back an elite player like Bosh. 

To get KG, we needed to send Al Jefferson plus more.

To get Ray, we needed to send #5 overall pick plus more.

To get Pau Gasol, LA needed to send.... um.... OK, nevermind maybe it is possible.   


But seriously, at the time, Pau wasn't considered at the level that Bosh is now.  He was a 1 time all star, 0 time all-nba teamer.  Bosh on the other hand is a 5 time all star and once a 2nd team All-NBA member.  To get an elite player like Bosh, I still think it takes at least 1 all-star potential player which Magic don't have to offer, so I don't think it can get done.

Another example was Charles Barkley to Phoenix.  Phoenix traded Jeff Hornacek (who was basically JJ Reddick in '92) and some various bits-and-pieces and got back Barkley who turned into the league MVP.

So it is possible, especially if Toronto fears losing him for nothing and are willing to do a sign-and-trade where they get very little back.

[Moranis]

Orlando is actually in pretty good shape to be a major player as Gortat, Bass, and Anderson are all nice young pieces.  They have Carter's massive contract, which is expiring, Pietrus, and the ability to sign and trade both Reddick and Barnes.  The Magic could entirely remake their team.

They could realistically do something like this

Carter, Anderson, 2 first rounders to Atlanta for Joe Johnson

Gortat, Bass, Pietrus to Toronto for Chris Bosh


Could also make it a three-way with those teams
Orlando gets Johnson, Bosh
Atlanta gets Hedo, Anderson, 2 orlando firsts
Toronto gets Carter, Gortat, Bass, Pietrus

[BballTim]

I like to think it takes a serious All-star prospect to get back an elite player like Bosh. 

To get KG, we needed to send Al Jefferson plus more.

To get Ray, we needed to send #5 overall pick plus more.

To get Pau Gasol, LA needed to send.... um.... OK, nevermind maybe it is possible.   


But seriously, at the time, Pau wasn't considered at the level that Bosh is now.  He was a 1 time all star, 0 time all-nba teamer.  Bosh on the other hand is a 5 time all star and once a 2nd team All-NBA member.  To get an elite player like Bosh, I still think it takes at least 1 all-star potential player which Magic don't have to offer, so I don't think it can get done.

Another example was Charles Barkley to Phoenix.  Phoenix traded Jeff Hornacek (who was basically JJ Reddick in '92) and some various bits-and-pieces and got back Barkley who turned into the league MVP.

So it is possible, especially if Toronto fears losing him for nothing and are willing to do a sign-and-trade where they get very little back.

  Jeff Hornacek was a far better player than Reddick is now when he was traded to Philly.

[guava_wrench]

I like to think it takes a serious All-star prospect to get back an elite player like Bosh. 

To get KG, we needed to send Al Jefferson plus more.

To get Ray, we needed to send #5 overall pick plus more.

To get Pau Gasol, LA needed to send.... um.... OK, nevermind maybe it is possible.   


But seriously, at the time, Pau wasn't considered at the level that Bosh is now.  He was a 1 time all star, 0 time all-nba teamer.  Bosh on the other hand is a 5 time all star and once a 2nd team All-NBA member.  To get an elite player like Bosh, I still think it takes at least 1 all-star potential player which Magic don't have to offer, so I don't think it can get done.

None of those were sign and trades. The point of the sign and trade is the player wants the better contract that he can only get by re-signing. They could decide to take the lesser contract and leave their old team with nothing if the old team plays hardball.

Matching salaries also is not an issue here since we are mostly dealing with buyers who are below the cap.

[guava_wrench]

How does that make them a Dynasty? Bosh is soft and has proven nothing. If he is so good than why didn't the Raptors make the playoffs this year? His team really isn't that bad.

Because Hedo was a bust.

[guava_wrench]

How does that make them a Dynasty? Bosh is soft and has proven nothing. If he is so good than why didn't the Raptors make the playoffs this year? His team really isn't that bad.

Agreed still don't see what people see in Bosh.  He reminds me Lamar Odom but, with less defense.

They seem pretty different statistically, though it would be unfair to base that on Odom's 6th man numbers.

[action781]

I like to think it takes a serious All-star prospect to get back an elite player like Bosh. 

To get KG, we needed to send Al Jefferson plus more.

To get Ray, we needed to send #5 overall pick plus more.

To get Pau Gasol, LA needed to send.... um.... OK, nevermind maybe it is possible.   


But seriously, at the time, Pau wasn't considered at the level that Bosh is now.  He was a 1 time all star, 0 time all-nba teamer.  Bosh on the other hand is a 5 time all star and once a 2nd team All-NBA member.  To get an elite player like Bosh, I still think it takes at least 1 all-star potential player which Magic don't have to offer, so I don't think it can get done.

Another example was Charles Barkley to Phoenix.  Phoenix traded Jeff Hornacek (who was basically JJ Reddick in '92) and some various bits-and-pieces and got back Barkley who turned into the league MVP.

So it is possible, especially if Toronto fears losing him for nothing and are willing to do a sign-and-trade where they get very little back.

  Jeff Hornacek was a far better player than Reddick is now when he was traded to Philly.

Indeed, Hornacek averaged 20/5/5 and 43% 3pt the season he was traded.  I don't know much other details about the trade, but he was definitely a far better player than Reddick.

I like to think it takes a serious All-star prospect to get back an elite player like Bosh. 

To get KG, we needed to send Al Jefferson plus more.

To get Ray, we needed to send #5 overall pick plus more.

To get Pau Gasol, LA needed to send.... um.... OK, nevermind maybe it is possible.   


But seriously, at the time, Pau wasn't considered at the level that Bosh is now.  He was a 1 time all star, 0 time all-nba teamer.  Bosh on the other hand is a 5 time all star and once a 2nd team All-NBA member.  To get an elite player like Bosh, I still think it takes at least 1 all-star potential player which Magic don't have to offer, so I don't think it can get done.

None of those were sign and trades. The point of the sign and trade is the player wants the better contract that he can only get by re-signing. They could decide to take the lesser contract and leave their old team with nothing if the old team plays hardball.

Matching salaries also is not an issue here since we are mostly dealing with buyers who are below the cap.

I hear what you're saying here, but my gut still tells me you'd still need not an all-star, but at least an all-star prospect to get him.   I'll come back later to see if I can argue this any clearer.  I guess I just think there will be some team to offer a player who could potentially become an all-star which would be more appealing than a bunch of role players.  What if Portland offered Aldridge or Oden?  What if Houston offered Martin or Ariza?  The Knicks offered D. Lee and Chandler?  I'm sure there are others I'm not thinking of, but I just don't see Orlando's package having the talent potential to get it done here. Toronto needs some all-star potential on that roster.

[BballTim]

I hear what you're saying here, but my gut still tells me you'd still need not an all-star, but at least an all-star prospect to get him.   I'll come back later to see if I can argue this any clearer.  I guess I just think there will be some team to offer a player who could potentially become an all-star which would be more appealing than a bunch of role players.  What if Portland offered Aldridge or Oden?  What if Houston offered Martin or Ariza?  The Knicks offered D. Lee and Chandler?  I'm sure there are others I'm not thinking of, but I just don't see Orlando's package having the talent potential to get it done here. Toronto needs some all-star potential on that roster.

  Chris Bosh is unrestricted, isn't he? He's no longer the Raptor's property to trade. Toronto can't tell him who to sign with in order to get the best assets in return. The Blazers can't offer Toronto Aldridge or Oden unless Bosh agrees to sign a contract with them. They could extract a higher price from Orlando than, say, the Nets because the Magic couldn't sign him without the Raptor's help but they won't get offers from multiple teams, Bosh will.