It's in the best interest of the Celtics if Doc retires..

[Fafnir]

As much as I like postseason Doc, I hate regular season Doc. Developing players is just not his strong suit. So if Danny puts another title contender together, then you got to keep Doc. But if it's clearly a developing period, Doc needs to retire.

I hate this false premise.

Believe what you want. Hate what you want. 

Yes because Mike Miller never developed, Rondo didn't, Powe didn't, Baby Didn't, Gomes didnt', West didnt....

Big Al didnt, Perkins didnt

Big Al played well enough to be traded for KG.

Perkins is the same age as Rondo and is now one of the best defenders in the league.

I'm sorry I don't see how those two support the point that he doesn't develop young playres.

I think you are misinterpreting the post. I think Rondo was just continuing your post with more names, hence, he supports your point.

DOH, good catch Nick.

I just assumed he disagreed with me! 

[Rondo2287]

As much as I like postseason Doc, I hate regular season Doc. Developing players is just not his strong suit. So if Danny puts another title contender together, then you got to keep Doc. But if it's clearly a developing period, Doc needs to retire.

I hate this false premise.

Believe what you want. Hate what you want. 

Yes because Mike Miller never developed, Rondo didn't, Powe didn't, Baby Didn't, Gomes didnt', West didnt....

Big Al didnt, Perkins didnt

Big Al played well enough to be traded for KG.

Perkins is the same age as Rondo and is now one of the best defenders in the league.

I'm sorry I don't see how those two support the point that he doesn't develop young playres.

I think you are misinterpreting the post. I think Rondo was just continuing your post with more names, hence, he supports your point.

DOH, good catch Nick.

I just assumed he disagreed with me! 

Nope nope, I agreed with Faf.  Still hurting a little bit inside for it, but I agreed with him.   

[Dybdal]

Lots of assumptions in this thread.

1. Thibs failed at his one shot taking the reigns of the team in a game this season, when Doc got tossed and handed him a whistle, so he can't be a good head coach when he has the time to adequately prepare for the job.
2. Thibs isn't as vocal this year, thus not as essential.
3. Thibs can't succeed on the offensive side of the basketball, despite being part of a coaching staff of a team that ranks among the most efficient in terms of offensive production.
4. Thibs can't deal with egos, despite watching Doc do it for the last several years.

If Doc does leave, and the team is still in win-now mode, I definitely want some continuity in the coaching staff.

I feel perfectly at ease with Thibs getting the head coaching gig, and allowing him to pick additional assistants to round out the staff.

I seem to remember numerous threads dedicated to Doc's idiocy, irrelevance, and incompetence several seasons ago. Has Doc changed or learned something while on the job? If so, why can't Thibs do the same?

It goes both ways you would have to presume, no one knows anything about the potential of Tibs.. and you would think the reason he has not gotten a head coaching gig thus far boils down to the fact that know one wanted to gamble on him (and yes getting anyone that isnt a proven comodity is a gamble)

I think if your looking for a head coach looking forward and Stan Van Gundy isnt going to coach Orlando next year (a big if) then id like Jeff Van Gundy to take over instead of Tibs (even better would be Doc Rivers deciding to take one more year)

[Lucky17]

It goes both ways you would have to presume, no one knows anything about the potential of Tibs.. and you would think the reason he has not gotten a head coaching gig thus far boils down to the fact that know one wanted to gamble on him (and yes getting anyone that isnt a proven comodity is a gamble)

The Boston Celtics clearly know the "potential" of Thibs, having employed him for the last several years.

And it's a false assumption to say he's not head coaching material because no one has hired him.

[fairweatherfan]

I think Thibodeau could be a good coach someday if he has the personality to get a team to gel under him, which remains to be seen.

But sometimes we forget that coaches have a learning curve in the same way that players do.  However good a head coach Thibs ultimately becomes, he'll probably be a lot worse than that his first couple of years.  And I don't know that a veteran team with strong personalities would adjust well to a guy who's been around as an assistant taking over for the charismatic head coach.

I like Thibs overall but I don't know that he's the answer for the next couple of years.

[kozlodoev]

Lastly, would our remaining assistants be comfortable working under Thibodeau?

We sometime seem to forget that Thibodeau is not an assistant, he's the Associate Head Coach. Which means that of the current coaching staff, he's clearly 1 step above everyone else. I don't see why the rest of our assistants should be uncomfortable working under him.

This being said, my feeling is that we should keep Doc for as long as we can -- and at least until the current core is around.

[Thruthelookingglass]

The players in interviews are praising Doc about keeping this team together and focused and believing in itself throughout the season. His defensive scheme is once again being bought into by the players and yielding championship like results. He is coaching better than maybe anyone in the NBA right now.

I would have thought that by now Celtics fans would be clamouring to have Danny resign Doc to a three year extension given his results, not trying to get him to retire.

This.

I think that Doc Rivers is a big reason why the light suddenly went on for this team.  I also think that systems are much easier to duplicate than coaches.

And . . .

If Doc were to leave he'd be getting the full court press from our friends in Cleveland, Atlanta, and maybe even Miami.  Think they feel Doc's a lousy coach?  After a taste of Perk and Rondo I bet they'd love to see how poorly he develops THEIR players.  I for one sure as heck don't want Doc coaching against us--he and his staff have done a great job.

[FallGuy]

Without Doc, I would argue this team would have fallen into squabbling and disarray and have been eliminated by now.

Yet again this post-season, he's made a case for himself as one of the very best coaches in the business.

[Eddie20]

Lots of assumptions in this thread.

1. Thibs failed at his one shot taking the reigns of the team in a game this season, when Doc got tossed and handed him a whistle, so he can't be a good head coach when he has the time to adequately prepare for the job.
2. Thibs isn't as vocal this year, thus not as essential.
3. Thibs can't succeed on the offensive side of the basketball, despite being part of a coaching staff of a team that ranks among the most efficient in terms of offensive production.
4. Thibs can't deal with egos, despite watching Doc do it for the last several years.

If Doc does leave, and the team is still in win-now mode, I definitely want some continuity in the coaching staff.

I feel perfectly at ease with Thibs getting the head coaching gig, and allowing him to pick additional assistants to round out the staff.

I seem to remember numerous threads dedicated to Doc's idiocy, irrelevance, and incompetence several seasons ago. Has Doc changed or learned something while on the job? If so, why can't Thibs do the same?

The problem isn't that he has proven what he can't do. The problem is that Doc is a proven coach and Thibs is hopeful wishing.

So if Doc leaves, you'd prefer to hire a candidate with head coaching experience instead?

Perhaps we should start discussing more concretely such candidates who would/might be available:

Avery Johnson
Byron Scott
Lawrence Frank
Vinnie Del Negro
Mike Woodson
Eddie Jordan
Dwayne Casey

I'm sure I'm missing a bunch of others.

Kevin McHale...obvious connection
Jeff Van Gundy ...TT was his assistant before
Danny Ainge ...wouldn't be shocked if he took the HC job until 2012

Might be available...

Phil Jackson...hate him and I don't want him, but he might be available
Larry Brown...this would be extremely interesting because he usually fizzles out after a couple of years with the same team. We could lock him in for 2 yrs. and then go in another direction in the summer of 12. Could he and Rondo co-exist?

[openairmovie]

http://forums.celticsblog.com/index.php?topic=37367.msg749396#msg749396

[Fafnir]

http://forums.celticsblog.com/index.php?topic=37367.msg749396#msg749396

Why link to a buried thread?

[Scalablob990]

***Exhales deeply***

My boy Doc just gets so very little love on this board.

The players in interviews are praising Doc about keeping this team together and focused and believing in itself throughout the season. His defensive scheme is once again being bought into by the players and yielding championship like results. He is coaching better than maybe anyone in the NBA right now.

And yet people still are looking to replace him or put him out to pasture.

I would have thought that by now Celtics fans would be clamouring to have Danny resign Doc to a three year extension given his results, not trying to get him to retire.

I'm indifferent towards Doc on all fronts, but he HAS made some bone headed substitutions and moves at crucial times in the game. He still relies on his starters wayyy to much. The one that drove me nuts was back when LA came to Boston and he didn't use Tony Allen in the second half....after he shut down Kobe the first half.

It's hard to say whether or not to keep him since "if the roof ain't leaking, don't fix it" but we seem like we're about to be declining soon anyway...

[Q_FBE]

I don't think it is in the best interest in the Celtics if Doc retires. Doc may want to take a sabbatical at the end of the season which in that case, Tom Thibadeaux should take over as the HC.

As Dickie V said on Mike and Mike this morning, Doc Rivers can flat out coach, BABY!

[Scalablob990]

As much as I like postseason Doc, I hate regular season Doc. Developing players is just not his strong suit. So if Danny puts another title contender together, then you got to keep Doc. But if it's clearly a developing period, Doc needs to retire.

I hate this false premise.

Believe what you want. Hate what you want. 

Yes because Mike Miller never developed, Rondo didn't, Powe didn't, Baby Didn't, Gomes didnt', West didnt....

Big Al didnt, Perkins didnt

Big Al played well enough to be traded for KG.

Perkins is the same age as Rondo and is now one of the best defenders in the league.

I'm sorry I don't see how those two support the point that he doesn't develop young playres.

I think you are misinterpreting the post. I think Rondo was just continuing your post with more names, hence, he supports your point.

DOH, good catch Nick.

I just assumed he disagreed with me! 

Nope nope, I agreed with Faf.  Still hurting a little bit inside for it, but I agreed with him.   

He was forced to play Big Al, Gomes, and Powe because of injuries to other players. Then he said "oh wow this person I kept buried on the bench can actually play! what a surprise" He sort of fell into realizing they had talent accidentally.

[kozlodoev]

I'm indifferent towards Doc on all fronts, but he HAS made some bone headed substitutions and moves at crucial times in the game. He still relies on his starters wayyy to much. The one that drove me nuts was back when LA came to Boston and he didn't use Tony Allen in the second half....after he shut down Kobe the first half.

In other news, Paul Pierce is a horrible player, because he misses 55% of his shots.