It's in the best interest of the Celtics if Doc retires..

[guava_wrench]

If Doc stays we will probably lose Tom Thibodeau. I'd rather allow Tom to become the head coach then keep Doc for one more season and most likely lose Tom Thibodeau when he is offered a head coaching job somewhere else.


What do you think?

I have no interest in Thibodeau as head coach, even if Doc leaves. I don't see why any contending team would take that level of risk with him. More importantly, the chances of him being as good as Doc is slim. Doc is recognized by most as one of the better coaches out there (We can ignore Celtics fans' opinions for the most part because fans tend to have very distorted views of their coach).

If you notice, Thibodeau no longer stands up and yells from the bench as he did in 2008. He has become less and less vital.

I also agree with those who are wondering where the confidence in Thibs' coaching ability came from.

[moiso]

If Doc keeps winning championships, the last thing we need is a new voice, in my opinion. 
As far as Thib not standing up and yelling like he used to- I don't think he is less vital.  I think the players just know what they are supposed to do by now.

[Chief]

As much as I like postseason Doc, I hate regular season Doc. Developing players is just not his strong suit. So if Danny puts another title contender together, then you got to keep Doc. But if it's clearly a developing period, Doc needs to retire.

[Fafnir]

As much as I like postseason Doc, I hate regular season Doc. Developing players is just not his strong suit. So if Danny puts another title contender together, then you got to keep Doc. But if it's clearly a developing period, Doc needs to retire.

I hate this false premise.

[Chief]

As much as I like postseason Doc, I hate regular season Doc. Developing players is just not his strong suit. So if Danny puts another title contender together, then you got to keep Doc. But if it's clearly a developing period, Doc needs to retire.

I hate this false premise.

Believe what you want. Hate what you want. 

[Dybdal]

If Doc wants to retire, then i think you have to go with someone else than Tibs.. the defensive culture is here as long as Rondo continues to be a Celtic.

Long term Tibs is not the best coach to continue developing talent and does not bring a sense of a new beginning.

Tibs needs to learn the ropes somewhere else, he needs to start at the bottom, not the top.

[the_Bird]

A lot of coaches will scream at their players that they have to play together to win.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TvRb2p0mBGk

The players don't always listen.  These guys listen to Doc Rivers, they respect Doc Rivers, they trust Doc Rivers.

That's good enough for me.  At the end of the regular season, it looked like they had begun tuning Doc out (and maybe some guys, like Nate and 'Sheed had).  Pretty clear through the playoffs that he's got them back (and they've got his back).

The team's playing wonderful, hard-nosed, SMART basketball, and people think that's in spite of bad coaching?  

EDIT: If Doc decides to step aside (for family reasons), I really think the one guy who could step in with this squad next year is Jeff Van Gundy.  It's going to be the same basic core of players, especially now that they've proven they *are* capable of winning a title.  Assuming Thibs doesn't get a head coaching gig, he'd probably keep him on as a defensive assistant. 

I see Van Gundy as someone that's had success in the league, who preaches defense above all else, someone that seems to be respected around the league.  I could see him fitting right into the existing team culture. 

[fairweatherfan]

Doesn't anybody remember Tommy Thib's one shot at being head coach this year?  When Doc got ejected and we ran out of steam down the stretch cause Tom forgot to put any subs in for a quarter and a half?  I think Thibodeau's a talented basketball mind, but he's going to need time to become a competent head coach, just like Doc did.  Probably not what this team needs right now.

[Fafnir]

As much as I like postseason Doc, I hate regular season Doc. Developing players is just not his strong suit. So if Danny puts another title contender together, then you got to keep Doc. But if it's clearly a developing period, Doc needs to retire.

I hate this false premise.

Believe what you want. Hate what you want. 

Yes because Mike Miller never developed, Rondo didn't, Powe didn't, Baby Didn't, Gomes didnt', West didnt....

[Rondo2287]

As much as I like postseason Doc, I hate regular season Doc. Developing players is just not his strong suit. So if Danny puts another title contender together, then you got to keep Doc. But if it's clearly a developing period, Doc needs to retire.

I hate this false premise.

Believe what you want. Hate what you want. 

Yes because Mike Miller never developed, Rondo didn't, Powe didn't, Baby Didn't, Gomes didnt', West didnt....

Big Al didnt, Perkins didnt

[Lucky17]

Lots of assumptions in this thread.

1. Thibs failed at his one shot taking the reigns of the team in a game this season, when Doc got tossed and handed him a whistle, so he can't be a good head coach when he has the time to adequately prepare for the job.
2. Thibs isn't as vocal this year, thus not as essential.
3. Thibs can't succeed on the offensive side of the basketball, despite being part of a coaching staff of a team that ranks among the most efficient in terms of offensive production.
4. Thibs can't deal with egos, despite watching Doc do it for the last several years.

If Doc does leave, and the team is still in win-now mode, I definitely want some continuity in the coaching staff.

I feel perfectly at ease with Thibs getting the head coaching gig, and allowing him to pick additional assistants to round out the staff.

I seem to remember numerous threads dedicated to Doc's idiocy, irrelevance, and incompetence several seasons ago. Has Doc changed or learned something while on the job? If so, why can't Thibs do the same?

[guava_wrench]

Lots of assumptions in this thread.

1. Thibs failed at his one shot taking the reigns of the team in a game this season, when Doc got tossed and handed him a whistle, so he can't be a good head coach when he has the time to adequately prepare for the job.
2. Thibs isn't as vocal this year, thus not as essential.
3. Thibs can't succeed on the offensive side of the basketball, despite being part of a coaching staff of a team that ranks among the most efficient in terms of offensive production.
4. Thibs can't deal with egos, despite watching Doc do it for the last several years.

If Doc does leave, and the team is still in win-now mode, I definitely want some continuity in the coaching staff.

I feel perfectly at ease with Thibs getting the head coaching gig, and allowing him to pick additional assistants to round out the staff.

I seem to remember numerous threads dedicated to Doc's idiocy, irrelevance, and incompetence several seasons ago. Has Doc changed or learned something while on the job? If so, why can't Thibs do the same?

The problem isn't that he has proven what he can't do. The problem is that Doc is a proven coach and Thibs is hopeful wishing.

[Fafnir]

As much as I like postseason Doc, I hate regular season Doc. Developing players is just not his strong suit. So if Danny puts another title contender together, then you got to keep Doc. But if it's clearly a developing period, Doc needs to retire.

I hate this false premise.

Believe what you want. Hate what you want. 

Yes because Mike Miller never developed, Rondo didn't, Powe didn't, Baby Didn't, Gomes didnt', West didnt....

Big Al didnt, Perkins didnt

Big Al played well enough to be traded for KG.

Perkins is the same age as Rondo and is now one of the best defenders in the league.

I'm sorry I don't see how those two support the point that he doesn't develop young playres.

[nickagneta]

As much as I like postseason Doc, I hate regular season Doc. Developing players is just not his strong suit. So if Danny puts another title contender together, then you got to keep Doc. But if it's clearly a developing period, Doc needs to retire.

I hate this false premise.

Believe what you want. Hate what you want. 

Yes because Mike Miller never developed, Rondo didn't, Powe didn't, Baby Didn't, Gomes didnt', West didnt....

Big Al didnt, Perkins didnt

Big Al played well enough to be traded for KG.

Perkins is the same age as Rondo and is now one of the best defenders in the league.

I'm sorry I don't see how those two support the point that he doesn't develop young playres.

I think you are misinterpreting the post. I think Rondo was just continuing your post with more names, hence, he supports your point.

[Lucky17]

Lots of assumptions in this thread.

1. Thibs failed at his one shot taking the reigns of the team in a game this season, when Doc got tossed and handed him a whistle, so he can't be a good head coach when he has the time to adequately prepare for the job.
2. Thibs isn't as vocal this year, thus not as essential.
3. Thibs can't succeed on the offensive side of the basketball, despite being part of a coaching staff of a team that ranks among the most efficient in terms of offensive production.
4. Thibs can't deal with egos, despite watching Doc do it for the last several years.

If Doc does leave, and the team is still in win-now mode, I definitely want some continuity in the coaching staff.

I feel perfectly at ease with Thibs getting the head coaching gig, and allowing him to pick additional assistants to round out the staff.

I seem to remember numerous threads dedicated to Doc's idiocy, irrelevance, and incompetence several seasons ago. Has Doc changed or learned something while on the job? If so, why can't Thibs do the same?

The problem isn't that he has proven what he can't do. The problem is that Doc is a proven coach and Thibs is hopeful wishing.

So if Doc leaves, you'd prefer to hire a candidate with head coaching experience instead?

Perhaps we should start discussing more concretely such candidates who would/might be available:

Avery Johnson
Byron Scott
Lawrence Frank
Vinnie Del Negro
Mike Woodson
Eddie Jordan
Dwayne Casey

I'm sure I'm missing a bunch of others.