CB Historical Draft - Team Rosters/Panelists Comments

[KCattheStripe]

My mind is pretty set on the east, but who I would like to know why each Western Conference team thinks it's the best.

[GreenFaith1819]

I know I'm not allowed to say this because I wasn't asked a direct question and I hope the commissioner doesn't censor me but I think Portland has the best defensive team in the league.

Portland is way up there, but I think I've got New Jersey as #1, even though McHale had begun to lose a half-step.

That's why I drafted Larry Nance .

I think he more than makes up for our 6th man needs.

Extremely tough defender..long arms..brings about 18 ppg and over 8 boards, too. Won several 2nd Team All Defense awards as well.

[Fan from VT]

I have the Spurs ranked as the best defensive team in the Western Conference. Portland and Utah are in second and third place respectively but a fair bit behind San Antonio.

Still pondering the East ... looks like Phily and Jersey battling for top spot. Milwaukee's perimeter trio in the starting lineup isn't great but their big man duo and their bench is stellar, they are in third place.

Edit: Philadelphia by a nose hair. First place in the East.

I know this may seem biased, but trying to look player to player, I've gotta say Golden State is probably the Third best defensive team in the West. I'd go with San Antonio, then Portland with Golden State a close behind (I think Golden State can defend better against big teams, Portland against smaller teams), then Utah. Reason being, Portland really doesn't have a defensive true center that is very intimidating, but does have very good defenders at other positions. San Antonio is solid through and through. But I really don't see Utah. They've got Shaq, who was a good defender in certain situations. Marion's good, but never good enough to get recognition. Same for Worthy. Starks earned one defensive second team, but I hope Utah would play him heavy minutes, as his offense really can't hang. So I'm really not sure I see Utah as an elite defensive team. Very good team, yes, but not really on the defensive side, especially if you're not going to give the 10-15 players on the bench heavy minutes.


ps- Roy, I'll answer your specific questions tomorrow.

[Who]

I have the Spurs ranked as the best defensive team in the Western Conference. Portland and Utah are in second and third place respectively but a fair bit behind San Antonio.

Still pondering the East ... looks like Phily and Jersey battling for top spot. Milwaukee's perimeter trio in the starting lineup isn't great but their big man duo and their bench is stellar, they are in third place.

Edit: Philadelphia by a nose hair. First place in the East.

I know this may seem biased, but trying to look player to player, I've gotta say Golden State is probably the Third best defensive team in the West. I'd go with San Antonio, then Portland with Golden State a close behind (I think Golden State can defend better against big teams, Portland against smaller teams), then Utah. Reason being, Portland really doesn't have a defensive true center that is very intimidating, but does have very good defenders at other positions. San Antonio is solid through and through. But I really don't see Utah. They've got Shaq, who was a good defender in certain situations. Marion's good, but never good enough to get recognition. Same for Worthy. Starks earned one defensive second team, but I hope Utah would play him heavy minutes, as his offense really can't hang. So I'm really not sure I see Utah as an elite defensive team. Very good team, yes, but not really on the defensive side, especially if you're not going to give the 10-15 players on the bench heavy minutes.


ps- Roy, I'll answer your specific questions tomorrow.

The Warriors dropped below the Jazz in my defensive rankings largely because of Chris Mullin (by far the worst defender on either team) and Carmelo Anthony. If those two players were replaced my mediocre defenders, I would have ranked the Warriors in second place ahead of both Portland and Utah.

The Jazz managed to climb highly in large part due to their lack of defensive liabilities (only Mark Price and he was serviceable enough) [I don't consider Dirk a defensive liability] + their excellent size, length and athleticism on the wing combination with good defense (Worthy/Drexler) and excellent defense (Marion) + Shaquille O'Neal who was an excellent defender in the year chosen.

The Jazz benefited greatly by being able to pick a specific season of Shaq's career because he was a good-to-very good defender for most of his career but in that one specific year he was outstanding.

I didn't look beyond either team's first choice rotation players but the Warriors do have a lot more defensive talent on there than the Jazz do (Ratliff, Hinrich, Blackman).

------------------------------------------------

Golden State = One elite defender (Alonzo) + two very good defenders (Majerle and AK47) + four good defenders (Divac, Malone, Isiah, Lever) + one poor defender (Carmelo) + one very poor defender (Mullin)

Utah Jazz = Two elite defenders (Shaq and Marion) + no very good defenders + four good defenders (Drexler, Worthy, McDyess, Porter) + one mediocre defender (Dirk) + one poor defender (Price) ... Starks would have been included as a mediocre defender if in the rotation.

It was close between the two sides but I went with Utah because they had less liabilities.

[nickagneta]

There was a reason Shaq pulled the triple crown of MVPs in that year(NBA, Finals and All-Star all in the same year). He had one of the single greatest years of any big man in the last 15 years that year. He was almost unstoppable on the offensive end and just a beast defensively as well. He blocked 3 shots a game that year but probably had players change their shots drastically into misses about another 5 times a game.

[Fan from VT]

I have the Spurs ranked as the best defensive team in the Western Conference. Portland and Utah are in second and third place respectively but a fair bit behind San Antonio.

Still pondering the East ... looks like Phily and Jersey battling for top spot. Milwaukee's perimeter trio in the starting lineup isn't great but their big man duo and their bench is stellar, they are in third place.

Edit: Philadelphia by a nose hair. First place in the East.

I know this may seem biased, but trying to look player to player, I've gotta say Golden State is probably the Third best defensive team in the West. I'd go with San Antonio, then Portland with Golden State a close behind (I think Golden State can defend better against big teams, Portland against smaller teams), then Utah. Reason being, Portland really doesn't have a defensive true center that is very intimidating, but does have very good defenders at other positions. San Antonio is solid through and through. But I really don't see Utah. They've got Shaq, who was a good defender in certain situations. Marion's good, but never good enough to get recognition. Same for Worthy. Starks earned one defensive second team, but I hope Utah would play him heavy minutes, as his offense really can't hang. So I'm really not sure I see Utah as an elite defensive team. Very good team, yes, but not really on the defensive side, especially if you're not going to give the 10-15 players on the bench heavy minutes.


ps- Roy, I'll answer your specific questions tomorrow.

The Warriors dropped below the Jazz in my defensive rankings largely because of Chris Mullin (by far the worst defender on either team) and Carmelo Anthony. If those two players were replaced my mediocre defenders, I would have ranked the Warriors in second place ahead of both Portland and Utah.

The Jazz managed to climb highly in large part due to their lack of defensive liabilities (only Mark Price and he was serviceable enough) [I don't consider Dirk a defensive liability] + their excellent size, length and athleticism on the wing combination with good defense (Worthy/Drexler) and excellent defense (Marion) + Shaquille O'Neal who was an excellent defender in the year chosen.

The Jazz benefited greatly by being able to pick a specific season of Shaq's career because he was a good-to-very good defender for most of his career but in that one specific year he was outstanding.

I didn't look beyond either team's first choice rotation players but the Warriors do have a lot more defensive talent on there than the Jazz do (Ratliff, Hinrich, Blackman).

------------------------------------------------

Golden State = One elite defender (Alonzo) + two very good defenders (Majerle and AK47) + four good defenders (Divac, Malone, Isiah, Lever) + one poor defender (Carmelo) + one very poor defender (Mullin)

Utah Jazz = Two elite defenders (Shaq and Marion) + no very good defenders + four good defenders (Drexler, Worthy, McDyess, Porter) + one mediocre defender (Dirk) + one poor defender (Price) ... Starks would have been included as a mediocre defender if in the rotation.

It was close between the two sides but I went with Utah because they had less liabilities.

I appreciate the individual perspective, but I find it interesting you give Shaq (defensive 2nd team) and Marion (never on any defensive teams) "elite status," but not Majerle (2nd team), Kirilenko (1st team) or Malone (1st team). I don't think Mullin is worse than Price, nor is Melo worse than Dirk...Dirk on defense is something to attack.

The way I see it, in the chosen years, I have three defenders (kirilenko, Malone, Mourning) better than any on Utah, then it's pretty even from there.

Nick-
Not bashing shaq at all. Obviously one of the 5 best players in this league. But there's a reason he was 2nd team in 2001, and never a DPOY. He was just a level lower.

[Roy Hobbs]

I have the Spurs ranked as the best defensive team in the Western Conference. Portland and Utah are in second and third place respectively but a fair bit behind San Antonio.

Still pondering the East ... looks like Phily and Jersey battling for top spot. Milwaukee's perimeter trio in the starting lineup isn't great but their big man duo and their bench is stellar, they are in third place.

Edit: Philadelphia by a nose hair. First place in the East.

I know this may seem biased, but trying to look player to player, I've gotta say Golden State is probably the Third best defensive team in the West. I'd go with San Antonio, then Portland with Golden State a close behind (I think Golden State can defend better against big teams, Portland against smaller teams), then Utah. Reason being, Portland really doesn't have a defensive true center that is very intimidating, but does have very good defenders at other positions. San Antonio is solid through and through. But I really don't see Utah. They've got Shaq, who was a good defender in certain situations. Marion's good, but never good enough to get recognition. Same for Worthy. Starks earned one defensive second team, but I hope Utah would play him heavy minutes, as his offense really can't hang. So I'm really not sure I see Utah as an elite defensive team. Very good team, yes, but not really on the defensive side, especially if you're not going to give the 10-15 players on the bench heavy minutes.


ps- Roy, I'll answer your specific questions tomorrow.

The Warriors dropped below the Jazz in my defensive rankings largely because of Chris Mullin (by far the worst defender on either team) and Carmelo Anthony. If those two players were replaced my mediocre defenders, I would have ranked the Warriors in second place ahead of both Portland and Utah.

The Jazz managed to climb highly in large part due to their lack of defensive liabilities (only Mark Price and he was serviceable enough) [I don't consider Dirk a defensive liability] + their excellent size, length and athleticism on the wing combination with good defense (Worthy/Drexler) and excellent defense (Marion) + Shaquille O'Neal who was an excellent defender in the year chosen.

The Jazz benefited greatly by being able to pick a specific season of Shaq's career because he was a good-to-very good defender for most of his career but in that one specific year he was outstanding.

I didn't look beyond either team's first choice rotation players but the Warriors do have a lot more defensive talent on there than the Jazz do (Ratliff, Hinrich, Blackman).

------------------------------------------------

Golden State = One elite defender (Alonzo) + two very good defenders (Majerle and AK47) + four good defenders (Divac, Malone, Isiah, Lever) + one poor defender (Carmelo) + one very poor defender (Mullin)

Utah Jazz = Two elite defenders (Shaq and Marion) + no very good defenders + four good defenders (Drexler, Worthy, McDyess, Porter) + one mediocre defender (Dirk) + one poor defender (Price) ... Starks would have been included as a mediocre defender if in the rotation.

It was close between the two sides but I went with Utah because they had less liabilities.

I appreciate the individual perspective, but I find it interesting you give Shaq (defensive 2nd team) and Marion (never on any defensive teams) "elite status," but not Majerle (2nd team), Kirilenko (1st team) or Malone (1st team). I don't think Mullin is worse than Price, nor is Melo worse than Dirk...Dirk on defense is something to attack.

The way I see it, in the chosen years, I have three defenders (kirilenko, Malone, Mourning) better than any on Utah, then it's pretty even from there.

Nick-
Not bashing shaq at all. Obviously one of the 5 best players in this league. But there's a reason he was 2nd team in 2001, and never a DPOY. He was just a level lower.

I mostly agree, especially in terms of AK47 and Majerle both being in the "elite" category, especially in their prime.  I'd take either over Marion, every day.  Also, Prime Mourning was a better defender than Prime Shaq.

[nickagneta]

I have the Spurs ranked as the best defensive team in the Western Conference. Portland and Utah are in second and third place respectively but a fair bit behind San Antonio.

Still pondering the East ... looks like Phily and Jersey battling for top spot. Milwaukee's perimeter trio in the starting lineup isn't great but their big man duo and their bench is stellar, they are in third place.

Edit: Philadelphia by a nose hair. First place in the East.

I know this may seem biased, but trying to look player to player, I've gotta say Golden State is probably the Third best defensive team in the West. I'd go with San Antonio, then Portland with Golden State a close behind (I think Golden State can defend better against big teams, Portland against smaller teams), then Utah. Reason being, Portland really doesn't have a defensive true center that is very intimidating, but does have very good defenders at other positions. San Antonio is solid through and through. But I really don't see Utah. They've got Shaq, who was a good defender in certain situations. Marion's good, but never good enough to get recognition. Same for Worthy. Starks earned one defensive second team, but I hope Utah would play him heavy minutes, as his offense really can't hang. So I'm really not sure I see Utah as an elite defensive team. Very good team, yes, but not really on the defensive side, especially if you're not going to give the 10-15 players on the bench heavy minutes.


ps- Roy, I'll answer your specific questions tomorrow.

The Warriors dropped below the Jazz in my defensive rankings largely because of Chris Mullin (by far the worst defender on either team) and Carmelo Anthony. If those two players were replaced my mediocre defenders, I would have ranked the Warriors in second place ahead of both Portland and Utah.

The Jazz managed to climb highly in large part due to their lack of defensive liabilities (only Mark Price and he was serviceable enough) [I don't consider Dirk a defensive liability] + their excellent size, length and athleticism on the wing combination with good defense (Worthy/Drexler) and excellent defense (Marion) + Shaquille O'Neal who was an excellent defender in the year chosen.

The Jazz benefited greatly by being able to pick a specific season of Shaq's career because he was a good-to-very good defender for most of his career but in that one specific year he was outstanding.

I didn't look beyond either team's first choice rotation players but the Warriors do have a lot more defensive talent on there than the Jazz do (Ratliff, Hinrich, Blackman).

------------------------------------------------

Golden State = One elite defender (Alonzo) + two very good defenders (Majerle and AK47) + four good defenders (Divac, Malone, Isiah, Lever) + one poor defender (Carmelo) + one very poor defender (Mullin)

Utah Jazz = Two elite defenders (Shaq and Marion) + no very good defenders + four good defenders (Drexler, Worthy, McDyess, Porter) + one mediocre defender (Dirk) + one poor defender (Price) ... Starks would have been included as a mediocre defender if in the rotation.

It was close between the two sides but I went with Utah because they had less liabilities.

I appreciate the individual perspective, but I find it interesting you give Shaq (defensive 2nd team) and Marion (never on any defensive teams) "elite status," but not Majerle (2nd team), Kirilenko (1st team) or Malone (1st team). I don't think Mullin is worse than Price, nor is Melo worse than Dirk...Dirk on defense is something to attack.

The way I see it, in the chosen years, I have three defenders (kirilenko, Malone, Mourning) better than any on Utah, then it's pretty even from there.

Nick-
Not bashing shaq at all. Obviously one of the 5 best players in this league. But there's a reason he was 2nd team in 2001, and never a DPOY. He was just a level lower.

TP guy. I'm not taking it that way. I really wasn't expecting as much Shaq love on this site as I have been getting. I happened to think Shaq in his prime 10 years ago maybe was the most dominant big man I ever saw, on both ends of the court. He might have gotten fouled without it being called more than any other player in history simply because he's soooo big and when you hit him he doesn't move like he's been hit or act like he's been hit. That year he may not have won DPOY or 1st team ALL-Defense, but he was the most feared man in the league both offensively and defensively. He changed the way other teams played basketball on both ends of the floor.

[nickagneta]

I have the Spurs ranked as the best defensive team in the Western Conference. Portland and Utah are in second and third place respectively but a fair bit behind San Antonio.

Still pondering the East ... looks like Phily and Jersey battling for top spot. Milwaukee's perimeter trio in the starting lineup isn't great but their big man duo and their bench is stellar, they are in third place.

Edit: Philadelphia by a nose hair. First place in the East.

I know this may seem biased, but trying to look player to player, I've gotta say Golden State is probably the Third best defensive team in the West. I'd go with San Antonio, then Portland with Golden State a close behind (I think Golden State can defend better against big teams, Portland against smaller teams), then Utah. Reason being, Portland really doesn't have a defensive true center that is very intimidating, but does have very good defenders at other positions. San Antonio is solid through and through. But I really don't see Utah. They've got Shaq, who was a good defender in certain situations. Marion's good, but never good enough to get recognition. Same for Worthy. Starks earned one defensive second team, but I hope Utah would play him heavy minutes, as his offense really can't hang. So I'm really not sure I see Utah as an elite defensive team. Very good team, yes, but not really on the defensive side, especially if you're not going to give the 10-15 players on the bench heavy minutes.


ps- Roy, I'll answer your specific questions tomorrow.

The Warriors dropped below the Jazz in my defensive rankings largely because of Chris Mullin (by far the worst defender on either team) and Carmelo Anthony. If those two players were replaced my mediocre defenders, I would have ranked the Warriors in second place ahead of both Portland and Utah.

The Jazz managed to climb highly in large part due to their lack of defensive liabilities (only Mark Price and he was serviceable enough) [I don't consider Dirk a defensive liability] + their excellent size, length and athleticism on the wing combination with good defense (Worthy/Drexler) and excellent defense (Marion) + Shaquille O'Neal who was an excellent defender in the year chosen.

The Jazz benefited greatly by being able to pick a specific season of Shaq's career because he was a good-to-very good defender for most of his career but in that one specific year he was outstanding.

I didn't look beyond either team's first choice rotation players but the Warriors do have a lot more defensive talent on there than the Jazz do (Ratliff, Hinrich, Blackman).

------------------------------------------------

Golden State = One elite defender (Alonzo) + two very good defenders (Majerle and AK47) + four good defenders (Divac, Malone, Isiah, Lever) + one poor defender (Carmelo) + one very poor defender (Mullin)

Utah Jazz = Two elite defenders (Shaq and Marion) + no very good defenders + four good defenders (Drexler, Worthy, McDyess, Porter) + one mediocre defender (Dirk) + one poor defender (Price) ... Starks would have been included as a mediocre defender if in the rotation.

It was close between the two sides but I went with Utah because they had less liabilities.

I appreciate the individual perspective, but I find it interesting you give Shaq (defensive 2nd team) and Marion (never on any defensive teams) "elite status," but not Majerle (2nd team), Kirilenko (1st team) or Malone (1st team). I don't think Mullin is worse than Price, nor is Melo worse than Dirk...Dirk on defense is something to attack.

The way I see it, in the chosen years, I have three defenders (kirilenko, Malone, Mourning) better than any on Utah, then it's pretty even from there.

Nick-
Not bashing shaq at all. Obviously one of the 5 best players in this league. But there's a reason he was 2nd team in 2001, and never a DPOY. He was just a level lower.

I mostly agree, especially in terms of AK47 and Majerle both being in the "elite" category, especially in their prime.  I'd take either over Marion, every day.  Also, Prime Mourning was a better defender than Prime Shaq.

I always thought AK47 severely overrated as a defender much the way Josh Smith is now. The weakside blocks and steals are sexy and make great ESPN highlights but their one on one and man post defense are both very weak.

[Roy Hobbs]

I have the Spurs ranked as the best defensive team in the Western Conference. Portland and Utah are in second and third place respectively but a fair bit behind San Antonio.

Still pondering the East ... looks like Phily and Jersey battling for top spot. Milwaukee's perimeter trio in the starting lineup isn't great but their big man duo and their bench is stellar, they are in third place.

Edit: Philadelphia by a nose hair. First place in the East.

I know this may seem biased, but trying to look player to player, I've gotta say Golden State is probably the Third best defensive team in the West. I'd go with San Antonio, then Portland with Golden State a close behind (I think Golden State can defend better against big teams, Portland against smaller teams), then Utah. Reason being, Portland really doesn't have a defensive true center that is very intimidating, but does have very good defenders at other positions. San Antonio is solid through and through. But I really don't see Utah. They've got Shaq, who was a good defender in certain situations. Marion's good, but never good enough to get recognition. Same for Worthy. Starks earned one defensive second team, but I hope Utah would play him heavy minutes, as his offense really can't hang. So I'm really not sure I see Utah as an elite defensive team. Very good team, yes, but not really on the defensive side, especially if you're not going to give the 10-15 players on the bench heavy minutes.


ps- Roy, I'll answer your specific questions tomorrow.

The Warriors dropped below the Jazz in my defensive rankings largely because of Chris Mullin (by far the worst defender on either team) and Carmelo Anthony. If those two players were replaced my mediocre defenders, I would have ranked the Warriors in second place ahead of both Portland and Utah.

The Jazz managed to climb highly in large part due to their lack of defensive liabilities (only Mark Price and he was serviceable enough) [I don't consider Dirk a defensive liability] + their excellent size, length and athleticism on the wing combination with good defense (Worthy/Drexler) and excellent defense (Marion) + Shaquille O'Neal who was an excellent defender in the year chosen.

The Jazz benefited greatly by being able to pick a specific season of Shaq's career because he was a good-to-very good defender for most of his career but in that one specific year he was outstanding.

I didn't look beyond either team's first choice rotation players but the Warriors do have a lot more defensive talent on there than the Jazz do (Ratliff, Hinrich, Blackman).

------------------------------------------------

Golden State = One elite defender (Alonzo) + two very good defenders (Majerle and AK47) + four good defenders (Divac, Malone, Isiah, Lever) + one poor defender (Carmelo) + one very poor defender (Mullin)

Utah Jazz = Two elite defenders (Shaq and Marion) + no very good defenders + four good defenders (Drexler, Worthy, McDyess, Porter) + one mediocre defender (Dirk) + one poor defender (Price) ... Starks would have been included as a mediocre defender if in the rotation.

It was close between the two sides but I went with Utah because they had less liabilities.

I appreciate the individual perspective, but I find it interesting you give Shaq (defensive 2nd team) and Marion (never on any defensive teams) "elite status," but not Majerle (2nd team), Kirilenko (1st team) or Malone (1st team). I don't think Mullin is worse than Price, nor is Melo worse than Dirk...Dirk on defense is something to attack.

The way I see it, in the chosen years, I have three defenders (kirilenko, Malone, Mourning) better than any on Utah, then it's pretty even from there.

Nick-
Not bashing shaq at all. Obviously one of the 5 best players in this league. But there's a reason he was 2nd team in 2001, and never a DPOY. He was just a level lower.

I mostly agree, especially in terms of AK47 and Majerle both being in the "elite" category, especially in their prime.  I'd take either over Marion, every day.  Also, Prime Mourning was a better defender than Prime Shaq.

I always thought AK47 severely overrated as a defender much the way Josh Smith is now. The weakside blocks and steals are sexy and make great ESPN highlights but their one on one and man post defense are both very weak.

I really dislike AK47 (at least the current version) for his whiny griping about shots and his poor work ethic.  However, back in the day, I think he was an excellent defender, both in terms of one-on-one and especially team defense.  He was a downright disruptive force, much the way that Rondo is currently.  I see what you're saying about Smith (and agree regarding him), but AK47 has (or had) much better defensive fundamentals, I think.

Recently his game has regressed.  As a one or two year snapshot, however, I think he was very strong.

[nickagneta]

I have the Spurs ranked as the best defensive team in the Western Conference. Portland and Utah are in second and third place respectively but a fair bit behind San Antonio.

Still pondering the East ... looks like Phily and Jersey battling for top spot. Milwaukee's perimeter trio in the starting lineup isn't great but their big man duo and their bench is stellar, they are in third place.

Edit: Philadelphia by a nose hair. First place in the East.

I know this may seem biased, but trying to look player to player, I've gotta say Golden State is probably the Third best defensive team in the West. I'd go with San Antonio, then Portland with Golden State a close behind (I think Golden State can defend better against big teams, Portland against smaller teams), then Utah. Reason being, Portland really doesn't have a defensive true center that is very intimidating, but does have very good defenders at other positions. San Antonio is solid through and through. But I really don't see Utah. They've got Shaq, who was a good defender in certain situations. Marion's good, but never good enough to get recognition. Same for Worthy. Starks earned one defensive second team, but I hope Utah would play him heavy minutes, as his offense really can't hang. So I'm really not sure I see Utah as an elite defensive team. Very good team, yes, but not really on the defensive side, especially if you're not going to give the 10-15 players on the bench heavy minutes.


ps- Roy, I'll answer your specific questions tomorrow.

The Warriors dropped below the Jazz in my defensive rankings largely because of Chris Mullin (by far the worst defender on either team) and Carmelo Anthony. If those two players were replaced my mediocre defenders, I would have ranked the Warriors in second place ahead of both Portland and Utah.

The Jazz managed to climb highly in large part due to their lack of defensive liabilities (only Mark Price and he was serviceable enough) [I don't consider Dirk a defensive liability] + their excellent size, length and athleticism on the wing combination with good defense (Worthy/Drexler) and excellent defense (Marion) + Shaquille O'Neal who was an excellent defender in the year chosen.

The Jazz benefited greatly by being able to pick a specific season of Shaq's career because he was a good-to-very good defender for most of his career but in that one specific year he was outstanding.

I didn't look beyond either team's first choice rotation players but the Warriors do have a lot more defensive talent on there than the Jazz do (Ratliff, Hinrich, Blackman).

------------------------------------------------

Golden State = One elite defender (Alonzo) + two very good defenders (Majerle and AK47) + four good defenders (Divac, Malone, Isiah, Lever) + one poor defender (Carmelo) + one very poor defender (Mullin)

Utah Jazz = Two elite defenders (Shaq and Marion) + no very good defenders + four good defenders (Drexler, Worthy, McDyess, Porter) + one mediocre defender (Dirk) + one poor defender (Price) ... Starks would have been included as a mediocre defender if in the rotation.

It was close between the two sides but I went with Utah because they had less liabilities.

I appreciate the individual perspective, but I find it interesting you give Shaq (defensive 2nd team) and Marion (never on any defensive teams) "elite status," but not Majerle (2nd team), Kirilenko (1st team) or Malone (1st team). I don't think Mullin is worse than Price, nor is Melo worse than Dirk...Dirk on defense is something to attack.

The way I see it, in the chosen years, I have three defenders (kirilenko, Malone, Mourning) better than any on Utah, then it's pretty even from there.

Nick-
Not bashing shaq at all. Obviously one of the 5 best players in this league. But there's a reason he was 2nd team in 2001, and never a DPOY. He was just a level lower.

I mostly agree, especially in terms of AK47 and Majerle both being in the "elite" category, especially in their prime.  I'd take either over Marion, every day.  Also, Prime Mourning was a better defender than Prime Shaq.

I always thought AK47 severely overrated as a defender much the way Josh Smith is now. The weakside blocks and steals are sexy and make great ESPN highlights but their one on one and man post defense are both very weak.

I really dislike AK47 (at least the current version) for his whiny griping about shots and his poor work ethic.  However, back in the day, I think he was an excellent defender, both in terms of one-on-one and especially team defense.  He was a downright disruptive force, much the way that Rondo is currently.  I see what you're saying about Smith (and agree regarding him), but AK47 has (or had) much better defensive fundamentals, I think.

Recently his game has regressed.  As a one or two year snapshot, however, I think he was very strong.

Probably have to go back and what some 6 year old vid but I seem to remember thinking I hated his man d. Sometimes it's kinda hard to remember every player when they played out west and I only saw them two to four times a year back then before getting the NBA League Pass 5 years ago.

[Moranis]

I get the impression that people are underestimating Kevin Willis and his ability to guard big guys.  It seems the big question on my team is the ability for my team to guard the big power centers, and I think there is a misconception on that front.

During the mid-90's, Willis did a tremendous job on Shaq.  Shaq would have his good game a year, but the other three games Willis held Shaq well below his season average and would put Shaq into greater foul trouble and force significantly more turnovers then typical.  I realize Shaq in Orlando wasn't the player he was from 99-00, but he was still a very big guy with an efficient game, that was frustrated a great deal by Willis.  

I believe my team would beat Utah 75% of the time.  Utah's lack of perimeter offense (Dirk and Price is about it), will be that team's doom.  Stockton will destroy Price and I have enough athletic great defenders to blanket Dirk on the wing, leaving plenty of ability to double and triple team (and foul the crap out of) Shaq.  He will be battered and bloodied and his 50% foul shooting and the teams lack of perimeter offense will lead my team to victory, time and time again.

You're right, Moranis, I (and others) may be underestimating your team.  Right now, I have you behind Golden State, Milwaukee, Philadelphia, San Antonio, and Utah.  

My concern is, in a league full of all-time greats, it's tough to have offensively limited players in your rotation.  I appreciate defense, but none of Rodman, Bell, and Prince are gifted offensive players when compared to their peers, and even Kevin Willis is probably a below-average starting offensive center in this league.

I think to some extent that you focused a little too much on the defensive side of the ball, when there were players with defense almost as good, but with better all-around games.

That said, I'm willing to be convinced that I'm wrong.  However, outside of Rodman, I just disagree that the rest of your defensive players are so good that you can live with reduced offense from them.

I certainly think you are underestimating Bell's offensive ability.  The year I chose he shot 6.4 three's a game and made 41.3%.  He just had his 6th straight year of shooting over 40% from three.  On a team with an all time great driver like Lebron and the best passer in the era in Stockton, all Bell and Johnson need to do offensively is stand behind the line and bomb three pointers.  Something they both do extremely well.

Prince is a bit limited offensively, but he still shot over 38% from three and he is only going to play ten minutes or so a game to spell LBJ.

On a team of 15 players, I'll take a few guys that rebound and board and don't do much else.  The gritty bangers are what holds teams together.  You can't just assemble a bunch of scorers and expect them to play as a team.

I just don't see how Utah consistently beats my team (and I use Utah, because a lot of people seem to like them).  Sure if Shaq has one of those monster 38/20 games he is capable of, Utah will be tough to beat, I just don't see him having those type of consistent games given the players in this league.  I'd like Utah a lot better if he had guys like Joe Johnson standing on the wing for kick outs, he just didn't put enough of those type players on his team.  In fact he only has two scorers in his rotation from PG to SF and Drexler (and Stack) are drivers which is just going to clog the lane for Shaq.  I just don't like the construction of the team outside of the Shaq/Dirk combo.

[Roy Hobbs]

I think nick made a mistake in trading Dumars, as he was an elite player who was a perfect fit for nick's lineup. 

However, I don't think Utah will struggle that much with scoring outside of Shaq.  Drexler was an elite scorer, and in the year selected, was a respectable outside shooter.  Mark Price and Terry Porter could both bomb from outside.  Shawn Marion had an excellent all-around offensive game, so long as he wasn't asked to create a ton of his own offense.  Worthy is another guy who could get to the hoop and who had a good mid-range game.  Dirk, of course, can shoot from deep or post up.

In an ideal world, sure, I'd like to see more than two shooters around Shaq.  However, I don't think that that's a fatal flaw.

[Moranis]

I think nick made a mistake in trading Dumars, as he was an elite player who was a perfect fit for nick's lineup. 

However, I don't think Utah will struggle that much with scoring outside of Shaq.  Drexler was an elite scorer, and in the year selected, was a respectable outside shooter.  Mark Price and Terry Porter could both bomb from outside.  Shawn Marion had an excellent all-around offensive game, so long as he wasn't asked to create a ton of his own offense.  Worthy is another guy who could get to the hoop and who had a good mid-range game.  Dirk, of course, can shoot from deep or post up.

In an ideal world, sure, I'd like to see more than two shooters around Shaq.  However, I don't think that that's a fatal flaw.

Price and Porter are shooters, but they are very small and don't create their own shots, which makes them much easier to guard.  Marion is ok, but his best shooting seasons are the ones when he had the ball a lot.  He is not a catch and shoot player, which is also the problem I have with Drexler and Stackhouse.  Both were superb drivers and scorers off the drive, I'm just not sure that fits with a true interior post player like Shaq.  Dirk is a great scorer, but he is soft and isn't exactly known for his post moves (which puts him out on the perimeter, which is great with Shaq).  I just think him being pushed to the perimeter, cuts out a lot of his versatility and makes him much easier to guard straight up. 

I like Dirk/Shaq, but after that I just don't like the team makeup.  It was almost as if he took the best player on the board without any relation to the team construction and the end result was a hodge podge after his two big men.  I do like McDyess off the bench, but I don't think he can play effectively with Shaq so I think that limits his role. 

[nickagneta]

I find it strange, Moranis, that you would prefer someone like Joe Johnson on the outside over a player the caliber of Dirk Nowitzki or Clyde Drexler or even Mark Price. Price and Nowitzki had years of +45% from the field, +40% from three, +90% for the line and +60% true shooting percentage in the years I selected.

Outside of Shaq, the players I chose were, offensively, some of the more efficient players you could have have their particular games.

Outside shooting PF to draw the defensive double teams away from a near unstoppable Shaq, Dirk in his MVP year with an almost histyoric outside shooting year for a big man.

Point guard that is a great floor general that could shoot outside after having the ball kicked back out from Shaq, one of the best pure shooting PGs ever, Mark Price.

A SG and SF that could create their own shots and dominate their men, Hall of Famers and 2 of the best 50 players ever according to the NBA in 1997 James Worthy and Clyde Drexler. Both truly dominant and clutch players at what they do.

Off the bench, length, athleticism, speed, offense and defense in Porter, McDyess and Marion in their absolute primes and just incase, if something happens to Shaq, a grizzled veteran that could throw up 20 points and 10 rebounds against the absolute best of the best any time he wanted to because he was maybe one of the top 7 centers EVER, Moses Malone.

Add to that BJ ARmstrong, one of the better situational three point shooters ever, Jayson Williams, one of the greatest offensive rebounders ever, John Starks a former Sixth Man of the Year and very good defender and Jerry Stackhouse, just a pure scoring machine and I feel, as KCattheStripe wanted to hear, that Utah has the best team due to their offensive superiority, good blend and balance of defense as well and depth.