How Good is Rondo?

[Mr October]

Let's not get ahead of ourselves.  Rondo has not yet won this series for us.  It's 2-2.  Rondo has a tendency to disappear and lose his aggression in spurts.  I am not trying to put him down - he had a tremendous game yesterday, but he cannot shoulder a scoring load yet.  I do think he can be the best point guard in the league, but in a league with Lebron, Wade, Durant, Melo, Howard, etc, I don't think he can carry a team to a championship without another alpha dog.  He is fantastic, but we still need our "Jordan," as stated earlier.

I'm not sure that's true. Rondo's been the best player all series, and was the best player in our game 6 clincher against L.A. The returns are early but it seems like he could be our #1 player.

But for the sake of argument - if you see Rondo as a no better than a #2 on a title team - that seriously changes our go-forward plan? Because then you need, somehow, to track down a #1. And that's very, very difficult.

I guess if the Celts manage to win this year, Rondo will actually be the best player on the team, but this year's team has a few guys that can take over the scoring load.  We have not seen Pierce do it yet, but we know he can.  Allen can shoot lights out.  I just think that once this core is gone, we need to get a big scorer who can play defense.

Just looking at this year's FA class, do you think the C's can give up the Big 3 and get a guy like Joe Johnson and have a championship caliber team with JJ and Rondo?  I'm not quite convinced yet, although it is appealing.  I am not saying that the Celts will get JJ, but I am talking about bringing in that caliber player to play with Rondo.  I still think we need someone stronger to score.

The natural pairing with Rondo would be an elite big man. But Jordan-Pippen was an odd combination. A 2 and a 3. You'd think you'd want a frontcourt player to go with MJ. But that worked.

Anyway, I understand the thinking with the Boozer rumors although I think he's not good enough as a #2, and clearly not a #1 guy.

The Chicago thing worked because Jordan was the greatest ever, and Pippen was the best SF of that decade.

I agree with you in that getting an elite bigman is the ultimate goal after the big three era closes.

[FallGuy]

I personally buy into the idea that point guards don't win championships, especially pass first point-guards. The reason? As a pass first point guard your weakness is that you rely on others to knockdown shots in a tight game. What happens if guys aren't knocking down shots? Rondo is a good scorer, but he's limited. IMO, Rondo would have to be paired with a scorer of equal or greater talent, preferably a big man.

What was Magic Johnson? Does he disprove your theory? I think he does. Although you make a good point - Rondo has to be able to score on his own down the stretch.

Also, it's easier to find guys who can just knock down shots to fill in around stars for clutch-time play (e.g. John Paxson, Danny Ainge, Steve Kerr, Robert Horry).

[Redz]

wicked good

[PosImpos]

Get Rondo a big man who is a top 10 player and yes, that could be a championship core.  Good luck getting that guy, though.

[ManUp]

I personally buy into the idea that point guards don't win championships, especially pass first point-guards. The reason? As a pass first point guard your weakness is that you rely on others to knockdown shots in a tight game. What happens if guys aren't knocking down shots? Rondo is a good scorer, but he's limited. IMO, Rondo would have to be paired with a scorer of equal or greater talent, preferably a big man.

What was Magic Johnson? Does he disprove your theory? I think he does. Although you make a good point - Rondo has to be able to score on his own down the stretch.

I actually did have Magic in my mind as I was typing it out. He was a 6'9 point guard who  played on an absolutely stacked team. He was in the perfect situation, and perfect system.

Also, it's easier to find guys who can just knock down shots to fill in around stars for clutch-time play (e.g. John Paxson, Danny Ainge, Steve Kerr, Robert Horry).

I see your point, but these guys were clutch time shooters because scorers (Jordan, Bird, Shaq, Kobe) drew double teams leaving them open. If you want to make Rondo less affective you play these type of guys up close not sag off them. They don't have the offensive skills to create their own shots when well defended.

I don't think it's impossible for pass first points, just not ideal.

[nickagneta]

Here's what I said about Rondo TWO YEARS AGO:

Honestly, I don't understand Triboy's stance whatsoever. Barbosa is a good player but doesn't he play mainly as a combo guard to SG off the bench? Rondo's a starter who couldn't dream of playing SG.

I like the Mookie Blaylock comparison of celticjames although long term I think Rondo has the potential to be a better overall player. But their games are similar.

Something that needs to be said about the development of PGs in general is that the maturation of young PGs into players that can effectively run a playoff caliber team is probably the longest maturation process of all the positions in basketball. Since the dawn of the NBA young PGs have almost always had to play backup for years behind a veteran and learn the game. But in today's watered down version of the league where big money demands instant results, PGs are expected to be producing immediately.

But that is still, as it always has been, an extreme rarity. Sorry but there are only so many Magics, Isiahs, Stocktons, Archibalds, Cousys and CP3s in the history of the NBA that came straight from college and became elite PGs right away.

Walt Frazier at the same age that Rondo is now had season stats of 9.0 PTS, 4.2 REBS, 4.1 ASTS, 65% FT%, and 45.2% FG%. That from one of the all-time great PGs ever.

Dennis Johnson at 22 had 9.2 PTS, 3.7 REBS, 1.5 ASTS, 1.5 STLS, 50% FG%, 62% FT%.

And the player who I think when Rondo's career is over that he will most be compared to:

Maurice Cheeks at 22 had 8.4 PTS, 3.1 REBS, 5.3 ASTS, 2.1 STLS, 72% FT%, 51% FG%.

Todays best young PGs start younger than their contemporaries. The age comparison is best suited due to the fact that young NBA Pgs sometimes have 1-2 college years of experience and 1-3 years of pro experience by the time they were 22 whereas in yonder olden days just about everyone came out of college after 4 years.

Here's a list of all the PGs drafted in the 1st round since 2000. Tell me which you would trade for Rondo right now.

2000
8. Jamaal Crawford
10. Keyon Dooling
14. Mateen Cleaves
20. Speedy Claxson
28. Erik Barkley
2001
24. Raul Lopez
27. Jamaal Tinsley
28. Tony Parker
2002
2. Jay Williams
25. Frank Williams
28. Dan Dickau
2003
7. Kirk Hinrich
8. T. J. Ford
13. Marcus Banks
14 Luke Ridnour
16. Troy Bell
21 Boris Diaw
2004
3. Ben Gordon
4. Shaun Livingston
5. Devin Harris
13. Sebastian Telfair
20. Jameer Nelson
24. Delonte West
28. Beno Udrih
2005
3. Deron Williams
4. Chris Paul
5. Raymond Felton
21. Nate Robinson
22. Jarrett Jack
2006
7. Randy Foye
21. Rajon Rondo
22. Marcus Williams
24. Kyle Lowry
26. Jordan Farmar
27. Sergio Rodriguez
2007
4 Mike Conley
11. Acie Law
19 Jarvis Crittendon
26. Aaron Brooks
30. Petteri Koponen

40 PGs drafted in the first round of this decade. 3 of which(Paul, D. Williams and Parker) who are clearly better than Rondo(in Parker's case as of now, maybe not at the same age).

Another 4-6 that I might take over him now but who I think he will be better than in another year or two (D. Harris, Hinrich, Tinsley, Felton, Nelson, West).

And 30 who I think he is at this point, not at the same age but at this point, he is better than.

I think this is pretty solid proof that PGs need to develop and that the ones that contribute right away, to the point that Triboy is discussing, are two or so every 10-20 years or so.

Rondo could eventually go down as the 4-6 best PG drafted in the 2000's after Parker, Paul, Williams, Baron Davis and Gilbert Arenas.

Not too shabby all in all.

Funny thing, after four years it's pretty obvious Rondo may become a much better player than Maurice Cheeks. I thought that I was paying Rondo a hell of a compliment given that Cheeks at that time was 4th all-time in steals, 9th all-time in assists and a 4 time All-Star and 4 time 1st team All-Defense.

[D Dub]

listening to the radio on the way to work this morning, I heard Colin Cowheard spend about 10 minutes defending his claim that Rondo was top 5... in the league...

I was kind of shocked hearing him say that only Kobe, Lebron, Wade and Howard are better players.  Went on about how great scorers (Melo, Durrant, Nowitski) get over-rated, but great players are guys who effect all facets of the game (an example he used was Bird vs. Barkley).

Not sure if I agree or not, but he's certainly the best Celtic right now, and our season hinges on his ability to deliver consistent play.  

[Prof. Clutch]

Rondo is very good.

[marseye]

He 's very GOOOOOOOODDDDDDDDDD
Simply The BESTTTTTT 

 

[Rondo_is_better]

Rondo_is_better. Plain and simple.

[FatjohnReturns]

Dont know he is too inconsistent to make a definite anaylsis. Yesterday he was amazing. He is not better than D Williams, Derrik Rose, or Chris Paul but definetely a top 5 pg.

[celticinorlando]

best PG in the east by far....prolly right there with williams and paul..i put him 3rd in the nba

[reggie35]

Well, hate to sound negative here but Rondo was the point guard on a team that struggled to get to 50 wins this year.

[nickagneta]

Well, hate to sound negative here but Rondo was the point guard on a team that struggled to get to 50 wins this year.

Hate to sound positive here but Rondo was the best player on a 50 win team.

[Bankshot]

best PG in the east by far....prolly right there with williams and paul..i put him 3rd in the nba