How Good is Rondo?

[Jon]

Looking ahead, I'm curious, how good do you guys really think Rondo is?  

I think many people on this board have thought for a long time that he was going to make some All Star teams and be a very, very strong player.  However, right now, even without a consistent jump shot, he's currently outplaying the player many people consider to be the best player on the planet.  

My thought for the past couple of years is that if the C's were going to rebuild successfully, even in the best case, they'd have to get 1 (if not 2) players via free agency better than Rondo to have a shot at winning another title.  Now, I'm starting to reconsider.  Rondo is legitimately playing like a top 5 player in the NBA right now.  If that's the case, while the C's will have to work some magic to get some supporting stars, their future looks infinitely better as Danny may have already achieved the very, very tough task of landing a truly elite superstar.  

So, I'm curious, what are your thoughts?  Is this just Rondo playing particularly well?  Is this partially a product of still playing with the Big Three?  Or is he legitimately an All NBA First Team type that can be the best player on a championship team?  

[Greenbean]

Rondo is as good as you are making him out to be.

The only thing is there have not been many champions who's point guard is the best player on the team. Teams generally need a dominant scorer to accompany the point guard.

Some of the best point guards to ever play have never won a title (Stockton, Kidd, Kevin Johnson) and alot won rings in the twilights of their careers (Tiny, Payton).

It is an interesting thought though. Rondo is an amazing point fuard talent. I am just not sure he can clearly be the best player on a champion. This year the guys around him can still carry a team for games at a time. Im not sure any point guard could carry a team the majority of the time.

[FallGuy]

Looking ahead, I'm curious, how good do you guys really think Rondo is?  

I think many people on this board have thought for a long time that he was going to make some All Star teams and be a very, very strong player.  However, right now, even without a consistent jump shot, he's currently outplaying the player many people consider to be the best player on the planet.  

My thought for the past couple of years is that if the C's were going to rebuild successfully, even in the best case, they'd have to get 1 (if not 2) players via free agency better than Rondo to have a shot at winning another title.  Now, I'm starting to reconsider.  Rondo is legitimately playing like a top 5 player in the NBA right now.  If that's the case, while the C's will have to work some magic to get some supporting stars, their future looks infinitely better as Danny may have already achieved the very, very tough task of landing a truly elite superstar.  

So, I'm curious, what are your thoughts?  Is this just Rondo playing particularly well?  Is this partially a product of still playing with the Big Three?  Or is he legitimately an All NBA First Team type that can be the best player on a championship team?  

I pretty much agree with your first paragraph - the same thoughts have been rolling and tumbling through my head the last week. I think this entire season has been Rondo making the case he can be the best player on a title team and one of the top-10 players in the NBA. I'm not sure how much higher his ceiling is; in fact he may already be entering his prime. But it seems to me we have one of the two superstar building blocks we need for another title with Rondo now locked up. If I'm Danny, I do whatever it takes to find that second piece asap (including moving Ray, letting Paul walk, etc), so we leverage Rondo's best years, the way we failed to do with Paul's.

[Jon]

Right.  And even if we are to subscribe to the PG argument, the fact that he may be good enough to be the "Pippen" to someone else's "Jordan" is still encouraging.  While it'll be no easy task to get an MJ here, it wasn't too long ago when I wasn't convinced Rondo could be either.  (As I said earlier, I always thought he'd make an All Star team, but both of those guys are clear-cut first ballot Hall of Famers). 

[Greenbean]

Looking ahead, I'm curious, how good do you guys really think Rondo is?  

I think many people on this board have thought for a long time that he was going to make some All Star teams and be a very, very strong player.  However, right now, even without a consistent jump shot, he's currently outplaying the player many people consider to be the best player on the planet.  

My thought for the past couple of years is that if the C's were going to rebuild successfully, even in the best case, they'd have to get 1 (if not 2) players via free agency better than Rondo to have a shot at winning another title.  Now, I'm starting to reconsider.  Rondo is legitimately playing like a top 5 player in the NBA right now.  If that's the case, while the C's will have to work some magic to get some supporting stars, their future looks infinitely better as Danny may have already achieved the very, very tough task of landing a truly elite superstar.  

So, I'm curious, what are your thoughts?  Is this just Rondo playing particularly well?  Is this partially a product of still playing with the Big Three?  Or is he legitimately an All NBA First Team type that can be the best player on a championship team?  

I pretty much agree with your first paragraph - the same thoughts have been rolling and tumbling through my head the last week. I think this entire season has been Rondo making the case he can be the best player on a title team and one of the top-10 players in the NBA. I'm not sure how much higher his ceiling is; in fact he may already be entering his prime. But it seems to me we have one of the two superstar building blocks we need for another title with Rondo now locked up. If I'm Danny, I do whatever it takes to find that second piece asap (including moving Ray, letting Paul walk, etc), so we leverage Rondo's best years, the way we failed to do with Paul's.

Good point. Do you think 2 years from now, when all of our big contracts are off the books will be too late? Rondo will only be 26.

[banty19]

I think relative to his position Rondo is at the same level Pierce was when he was in his prime: likely All Star but not the best player at his position. I also think he's in his prime with one exception. He still doesn't have a consistent jumpshot.

However, there have been some encouraging signs. His FT% has been much better in the playoffs and it seems like he's been making more 3s. If he becomes consistent with these, he's likely the top PG in the NBA. He wouldn't be able to affect the game like Lebron and Dwight, but he'd likely guarentee a playoff spot regardless of supporting cast.

[Birdbrain]

Top 5 now with the ability to be the best PG in the league.

Dominates in all phases of the game like no other PG in the league.

[nyceltsfan]

Let's not get ahead of ourselves.  Rondo has not yet won this series for us.  It's 2-2.  Rondo has a tendency to disappear and lose his aggression in spurts.  I am not trying to put him down - he had a tremendous game yesterday, but he cannot shoulder a scoring load yet.  I do think he can be the best point guard in the league, but in a league with Lebron, Wade, Durant, Melo, Howard, etc, I don't think he can carry a team to a championship without another alpha dog.  He is fantastic, but we still need our "Jordan," as stated earlier.

[Birdbrain]

Let's not get ahead of ourselves.  Rondo has not yet won this series for us.  It's 2-2.  Rondo has a tendency to disappear and lose his aggression in spurts.  I am not trying to put him down - he had a tremendous game yesterday, but he cannot shoulder a scoring load yet.  I do think he can be the best point guard in the league, but in a league with Lebron, Wade, Durant, Melo, Howard, etc, I don't think he can carry a team to a championship without another alpha dog.  He is fantastic, but we still need our "Jordan," as stated earlier.

No doubt, no one can do it by themselves.  He'll need scorers around him but, he's got game and more is coming.  We've seen him go from someone that would never shoot and now he's taking fall away 3's at the 24 second buzzer. The only thing that will stop him is himself.  I'm done putting restrictions on my expectations for him. 

[FallGuy]

Looking ahead, I'm curious, how good do you guys really think Rondo is?  

I think many people on this board have thought for a long time that he was going to make some All Star teams and be a very, very strong player.  However, right now, even without a consistent jump shot, he's currently outplaying the player many people consider to be the best player on the planet.  

My thought for the past couple of years is that if the C's were going to rebuild successfully, even in the best case, they'd have to get 1 (if not 2) players via free agency better than Rondo to have a shot at winning another title.  Now, I'm starting to reconsider.  Rondo is legitimately playing like a top 5 player in the NBA right now.  If that's the case, while the C's will have to work some magic to get some supporting stars, their future looks infinitely better as Danny may have already achieved the very, very tough task of landing a truly elite superstar.  

So, I'm curious, what are your thoughts?  Is this just Rondo playing particularly well?  Is this partially a product of still playing with the Big Three?  Or is he legitimately an All NBA First Team type that can be the best player on a championship team?  

I pretty much agree with your first paragraph - the same thoughts have been rolling and tumbling through my head the last week. I think this entire season has been Rondo making the case he can be the best player on a title team and one of the top-10 players in the NBA. I'm not sure how much higher his ceiling is; in fact he may already be entering his prime. But it seems to me we have one of the two superstar building blocks we need for another title with Rondo now locked up. If I'm Danny, I do whatever it takes to find that second piece asap (including moving Ray, letting Paul walk, etc), so we leverage Rondo's best years, the way we failed to do with Paul's.

Good point. Do you think 2 years from now, when all of our big contracts are off the books will be too late? Rondo will only be 26.

No, I don't think so. It seems like he should be playing very well until at least 30-31. But I do think that's a consideration. How do we maximize what we have in Rondo?

[FallGuy]

Let's not get ahead of ourselves.  Rondo has not yet won this series for us.  It's 2-2.  Rondo has a tendency to disappear and lose his aggression in spurts.  I am not trying to put him down - he had a tremendous game yesterday, but he cannot shoulder a scoring load yet.  I do think he can be the best point guard in the league, but in a league with Lebron, Wade, Durant, Melo, Howard, etc, I don't think he can carry a team to a championship without another alpha dog.  He is fantastic, but we still need our "Jordan," as stated earlier.

I'm not sure that's true. Rondo's been the best player all series, and was the best player in our game 6 clincher against L.A. The returns are early but it seems like he could be our #1 player.

But for the sake of argument - if you see Rondo as a no better than a #2 on a title team - that seriously changes our go-forward plan? Because then you need, somehow, to track down a #1. And that's very, very difficult.

[nyceltsfan]

Let's not get ahead of ourselves.  Rondo has not yet won this series for us.  It's 2-2.  Rondo has a tendency to disappear and lose his aggression in spurts.  I am not trying to put him down - he had a tremendous game yesterday, but he cannot shoulder a scoring load yet.  I do think he can be the best point guard in the league, but in a league with Lebron, Wade, Durant, Melo, Howard, etc, I don't think he can carry a team to a championship without another alpha dog.  He is fantastic, but we still need our "Jordan," as stated earlier.

I'm not sure that's true. Rondo's been the best player all series, and was the best player in our game 6 clincher against L.A. The returns are early but it seems like he could be our #1 player.

But for the sake of argument - if you see Rondo as a no better than a #2 on a title team - that seriously changes our go-forward plan? Because then you need, somehow, to track down a #1. And that's very, very difficult.

I guess if the Celts manage to win this year, Rondo will actually be the best player on the team, but this year's team has a few guys that can take over the scoring load.  We have not seen Pierce do it yet, but we know he can.  Allen can shoot lights out.  I just think that once this core is gone, we need to get a big scorer who can play defense.

Just looking at this year's FA class, do you think the C's can give up the Big 3 and get a guy like Joe Johnson and have a championship caliber team with JJ and Rondo?  I'm not quite convinced yet, although it is appealing.  I am not saying that the Celts will get JJ, but I am talking about bringing in that caliber player to play with Rondo.  I still think we need someone stronger to score.

[Mr October]

I think a mix is happening. Rondo is really freaking good, and getting better every year. His decision making is his biggest improvement this year. But he is also benefiting from all the attention given to the big 3. Those guys demand a lot of attention.

As good as Rondo is, he is still a 3rd tier all star. (That's not a bad place to be.)

Here is a rough breakdown of the tiers:

1st tier - the superstars: Lebron, Wade, Dwight, and Kobe

2nd tier - The hands down perennial all stars (unless injured): D Willimas, C Paul, Nash, Durant, Carmelo, Gasol, Bosh, Dirk and maybe Stoudemire and Brandon Roy.

3rd tier - Rondo, Joe Johnson, Ginobili, Rose, Tony Parker, Gerald Wallace, Pierce, Garnett, Al Horford, Duncan, Boozer, etc.

[FallGuy]

Let's not get ahead of ourselves.  Rondo has not yet won this series for us.  It's 2-2.  Rondo has a tendency to disappear and lose his aggression in spurts.  I am not trying to put him down - he had a tremendous game yesterday, but he cannot shoulder a scoring load yet.  I do think he can be the best point guard in the league, but in a league with Lebron, Wade, Durant, Melo, Howard, etc, I don't think he can carry a team to a championship without another alpha dog.  He is fantastic, but we still need our "Jordan," as stated earlier.

I'm not sure that's true. Rondo's been the best player all series, and was the best player in our game 6 clincher against L.A. The returns are early but it seems like he could be our #1 player.

But for the sake of argument - if you see Rondo as a no better than a #2 on a title team - that seriously changes our go-forward plan? Because then you need, somehow, to track down a #1. And that's very, very difficult.

I guess if the Celts manage to win this year, Rondo will actually be the best player on the team, but this year's team has a few guys that can take over the scoring load.  We have not seen Pierce do it yet, but we know he can.  Allen can shoot lights out.  I just think that once this core is gone, we need to get a big scorer who can play defense.

Just looking at this year's FA class, do you think the C's can give up the Big 3 and get a guy like Joe Johnson and have a championship caliber team with JJ and Rondo?  I'm not quite convinced yet, although it is appealing.  I am not saying that the Celts will get JJ, but I am talking about bringing in that caliber player to play with Rondo.  I still think we need someone stronger to score.

The natural pairing with Rondo would be an elite big man. But Jordan-Pippen was an odd combination. A 2 and a 3. You'd think you'd want a frontcourt player to go with MJ. But that worked.

Anyway, I understand the thinking with the Boozer rumors although I think he's not good enough as a #2, and clearly not a #1 guy.

[ManUp]

I personally buy into the idea that point guards don't win championships, especially pass first point-guards. The reason? As a pass first point guard your weakness is that you rely on others to knockdown shots in a tight game. What happens if guys aren't knocking down shots? Rondo is a good scorer, but he's limited. IMO, Rondo would have to be paired with a scorer of equal or greater talent, preferably a big man.